Yzerman will surprise with trades he makes...

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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And I agree wholeheartedly with this.

I don't understand the comments that call Leddy "trash." I'm not sure if we've been watching the same games. He's not Leddy from 3 years ago, but he's a decent puck-moving defenseman.

The complaints are because he constantly isn't covering his guy in the past 20 or so games, and his +/- has bottomed out, and really most of it is earned. He is a good puck mover, but he isn't putting up enough offence or pts to outweigh his negative presence in the d-zone. He looked quite good early on and I said as much, but things have taken a bad turn since then. I also don't think he and Hronek are a good pair, as they both have their own defensive deficiencies. Unfortunately Seider has to babysit someone, in this case Dekeyser.
 
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Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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Didn't Mantha get traded within the first year of his deal?
(I don't expect him to be traded because of the injury though)

Mantha was traded 4 months after signing a new deal.

Don't think that is gonna happen with Vrana, he has elite tools we are gonna use for years.

But I could see the same happening for Fabbri. Don't plan anything long-term around him. Could be very useful at Contender middle6, with low caphit.
 
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Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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One interesting detail in Yzerman's building plan is, surrounding Larkin with his age-mates/draft-class.

Yzerman has already added Vrana, Nedeljkovic and Fabbri from same draft as Larkin was.

All were drafted between 13 to 36 overalls at 2014. And also, Brayden Point was from that class, Yzerman clearly appreciates it.

I wonder who's next? That defenceman class is pretty bad.
 
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14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
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Mantha was traded 4 months after signing a new deal.

Don't think that is gonna happen with Vrana, he has elite tools we are gonna use for years.

But I could see the same happening for Fabbri. Don't plan anything long-term around him. Could be very useful at Contender middle6, with low caphit.
When is Vrana due back in the lineup?

I actually think Yzerman will trade him either this or next season.
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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One interesting detail in Yzerman's building plan is, surrounding Larkin with his age-mates/draft-class.

Yzerman has already added Vrana, Nedeljkovic and Fabbri from same draft as Larkin was.

All were drafted between 13 to 36 overalls at 2014. And also, Brayden Point was from that class, Yzerman clearly appreciates it.

I wonder who's next? That defenceman class is pretty bad.
He'll add Pastrnak when Bruins start rebuilding in 1-2 years.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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I don't think people on here can really grasp how hard re-building this team is with the current lottery structure and the situation inherited.
 
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14ari13

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Oct 19, 2006
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I don't think people on here can really grasp how hard re-building this team is with the current lottery structure and the situation inherited.
Maybe they do know, but are extremely impatient.
When I read what people write on this board I think to myself they want Yzerman to make playoffs, get knocked out in round 1 and then start the rebuild all over again.

It is kind of they criticise Holland, but at the same time they want Yzerman to copy Holland.

We are very lucky that Seider and Raymond have speeded up the rebuild, as Redmond said the other night, by 2 years.

There is no way this team should be top 3 on the home ice as we were a week or 2 ago.
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Not really?

The lottery isn't the answer.

It's picking the right guys outside of lottery.

You think a team should be able to find good/impact players outside of lottery picks with consistency?

Is that your expectation, and if so - Can you point me to the teams that have done this?
 
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SoupNazi

Serenity now. Insanity later.
Feb 6, 2010
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You think a team should be able to find good/impact players outside of lottery picks with consistency?

Is that your expectation, and if so - Can you point me to the teams that have done this?
I don't think those teams exist.
 

NickH8

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Jul 3, 2015
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You think a team should be able to find good/impact players outside of lottery picks with consistency?

Is that your expectation, and if so - Can you point me to the teams that have done this?
Harsh reality is that a lot of the players people say we need, a Larkin level center, another elite scoring winger, all depend on the lottery balls. We just have to focus on adding good players in the draft regardless of position until we have an army of young players, then patch up the holes with trades and free agency. Maybe we find that Larkin level center outside of the top 10, but you're screwing yourself if you draft an inferior player because you "need" something and he ends up not being that.
 
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Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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You think a team should be able to find good/impact players outside of lottery picks with consistency?

Is that your expectation, and if so - Can you point me to the teams that have done this?
Capitals cup team:
- John Carlson (27 OA)
- Kutznetsov (26 OA)
- Tom Wilson (16th OA pick)
- Holtby (4th rd)
- Orlov (2nd rd)
- Burakovsky (23 OA)
- Beagle (undrafted)
- Stephenson (3rd rd)
- Djoos (7th rd)

#1OA Ovechkin and #4OA Backstrom were always one and done in the playoffs until they got help through the draft (above), UFA (Orpik, Connolly, Niskanen) and trades (TJ Oshie, Eller, Kempny).

With the salary cap system in place, the only way you get past Mediocreville is through good drafting. It would've been nice to have a generational talent, but Seider, Raymond, and Edvinsson could very well have gone top 3 in a redraft (a little early for that right now).
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Capitals cup team:
- John Carlson (27 OA)
- Kutznetsov (26 OA)
- Tom Wilson (16th OA pick)
- Holtby (4th rd)
- Orlov (2nd rd)
- Burakovsky (23 OA)
- Beagle (undrafted)
- Stephenson (3rd rd)
- Djoos (7th rd)

#1OA Ovechkin and #4OA Backstrom were always one and done in the playoffs until they got help through the draft (above), UFA (Orpik, Connolly, Niskanen) and trades (TJ Oshie, Eller, Kempny).

With the salary cap system in place, the only way you get past Mediocreville is through good drafting. It would've been nice to have a generational talent, but Seider, Raymond, and Edvinsson could very well have gone top 3 in a redraft (a little early for that right now).

Yeah having the greatest goal scorer of all time by way of a #1 pick sure does help the rest.
 

Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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Yeah having the greatest goal scorer of all time by way of a #1 pick sure does help the rest.
You're kinda forgetting it took him 13 seasons to win the Cup, and they haven't gotten close since. Having one dimensional generational talent only gets a team so far.

McDavid is a far better talent and he hasn't won yet. That's what the salary cap does. the only way to win is by drafting well or cheating the cap like Tampa.
 

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Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,244
14,753
Here is what I am saying ---
  • If you spend any time looking at draft data, it is very clear that the top 3 picks are where most good players come from in the draft. (overwhelmingly so)
  • The NHL intentionally made it harder for teams to acquire top 3 picks by adjusting the lottery format.
  • Detroit despite being a bad team for the last 4-5 years, has had no top 3 picks.
The above 3 statements are facts. If we can accept those facts, we can understand the difficulty of the task at hand. For whoever the GM is.

NOW....

Yzerman has done a good job with the top pick in his first 2 drafts. Raymond and Seider may both be guys that out-perform their draft position in a significant way (really don't like even talking about this stuff this early).

But what is the expectation... that Yzerman does this 1-2 more times in a row with the top pick? So 4-5 years in a row of getting guys that out-perform draft position in a meaningful way, and no misses (with our top pick)?

Just understand, if you actually look at league-wide draft data, this is not a realistic expectation to have. We have had a good start so far. We might pull it off. Hell, frankly, it's what we are going to need to do. But I don't think most people understand the difficulty involved in pulling that off and how much defying the odds are needed.

We do have trades, later round draft picks, and free agency as other avenues to build the team as well. But I think most of re-building typically comes down to your drafting in the 1st round. I can understand the criticism of some of the trades so far, or some of the later round picks. But I think it's hard to argue with how the team has drafted with their highest picks with Yzerman so far.
 
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Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
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Bellingham, WA
Here is what I am saying ---
  • If you spend any time looking at draft data, it is very clear that the top 3 picks are where most good players come from in the draft. (overwhelmingly so)
  • The NHL intentionally made it harder for teams to acquire top 3 picks by adjusting the lottery format.
  • Detroit despite being a bad team for the last 4-5 years, has had no top 3 picks.
The above 3 statements are facts. If we can accept those facts, we can understand the difficulty of the task at hand. For whoever the GM is.

NOW....

Yzerman has done a good job with the top pick in his first 2 drafts. Raymond and Seider may both be guys that out-perform their draft position in a significant way (really don't like even talking about this stuff this early).

But what is the expectation... that Yzerman does this 1-2 more times in a row with the top pick? So 4-5 years in a row of getting guys that out-perform draft position in a meaningful way, and no misses (with our top pick)?

Just understand, if you actually look at league-wide draft data, this is not a realistic expectation to have. We have had a good start so far. We might pull it off. Hell, frankly, it's what we are going to need to do. But I don't think most people understand the difficulty involved in pulling that off and how much defying the odds are needed.

We do have trades, later round draft picks, and free agency as other avenues to build the team as well. But I think most of re-building typically comes down to your drafting in the 1st round. I can understand the criticism of some of the trades so far, or some of the later round picks. But I think it's hard to argue with how the team has drafted with their highest picks with Yzerman so far.
If it was easy every team would have a Cup by now. Look at "league wide data" and show me how many of those teams won a Cup?
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
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Yzerman has already added Vrana, Nedeljkovic and Fabbri from same draft as Larkin was.

All were drafted between 13 to 36 overalls at 2014. And also, Brayden Point was from that class, Yzerman clearly appreciates it.

I wonder who's next?
He could just trade for Brayden Point and I wouldn't object. :D
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,213
12,207
Tampere, Finland
You think a team should be able to find good/impact players outside of lottery picks with consistency?

Is that your expectation, and if so - Can you point me to the teams that have done this?

YES.

I can point you MORITZ SEIDER, LUCAS RAYMOND and SIMON EDVINSSON.

Consistent impact players outside of lottery picks.

Another example, Winnipeg Jets:

#7 overall - Mark Scheifele
#9 overall - Jacob Trouba
#13 overall - Josh Morrissey
#9 overall - Nikolai Ehlers
#17 overall - Kyle Connor

Just pick the right guys.
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,244
14,753
YES.

I can point you MORITZ SEIDER, LUCAS RAYMOND and SIMON EDVINSSON.

Consistent impact players outside of lottery picks.

Another example, Winnipeg Jets:

#7 overall - Mark Scheifele
#9 overall - Jacob Trouba
#13 overall - Josh Morrissey
#9 overall - Nikolai Ehlers
#17 overall - Kyle Connor

Just pick the right guys.

Are the Winnipeg Jets a successful re-build?

They are currently sitting outside of a playoff position.
 

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