In a few decades, history will show that it's easily Sakic.
i lean toward sakic, but am in the it’s crazy close camp.
curious why you think so.
Sakic had:
Significantly better longevity as a great offensive player - quite a few more top 5, top 10, top 20 seasons, etc.
Better two-way prime - when adjusted for era, Sakic's best offensive seasons are comparable to Yzerman's, but Sakic was a good two-way player during his offensive prime.
Better overall playoff numbers and slightly more impressive individual runs
Yzerman had:
Better defensive peak - but he was merely a good, no longer great, offensive player by this point.
Yzerman's 155 point season should be viewed on a tier above Sakic's best season (2000/01) especially given how much more he was relied on for offense.
He basically sacrificed defense for that offense. And offensively, Sakic was way ahead of the pack in 2001, just as Yzerman was in 1989.
I deeply question the notion that:
1. Yzerman was bad defensively in his early years, when he was relied on heavily by an undermanned Wings team that (to me) did better defensively than their talent would indicate
2. Yzerman improved dramatically defensively in his later years, coincidentally at the same time Detroit added Selke caliber forwards like Fedorov and Draper, improved their goaltending and put together some of the more impressive collections of defensemen in recent NHL history
.lol stevie y had 155 pts one year, thats just ridiculous, no one will ever do that again
I wanted to make mention guys and gals (after looking at the numbers etc), a few times in this thread I had seen comments to the effect of Super Joe playing good/recognizable defense while still being better than Stevie Y offensively (not having to "sacrifice" offense like Yzerman did etc). Super Joe's 2000-2001 season was really the only season that illustrated this in a sense....the majority of Sakic's Selke votes I noticed, similar to Yzerman's, coincided with decreased offensive production (granted some of that was injury related). I just thought I'd share because I got an impression from scanning through these posts that Sakic was like a super duper shutdown center while being an offensive dervish. I think both guys are great (and of course love Stevie Y), but to say Sakic was a super duper shutdown center during his offensive peak....I don't know if that's accurate (at least based on Selke "recognition") if you will...like with Sakic I think "best wrist shot" "playoff stud." "Outstanding Penalty Killer" and "Terrific on Faceoffs" is something I associate with Yzerman......but not Sakic. Thoughts?
How are you coming to this conclusion?
1. | Mario Lemieux* • PIT | 199 |
2. | Wayne Gretzky* • LAK | 168 |
3. | Steve Yzerman* • DET | 155 |
4. | Bernie Nicholls • LAK | 150 |
5. | Rob Brown • PIT | 115 |
1. | Jaromir Jagr • PIT | 121 |
2. | Joe Sakic* • COL | 118 |
3. | Patrik Elias • NJD | 96 |
4. | Jason Allison • BOS | 95 |
Alex Kovalev • PIT | 95 | |
Martin Straka • PIT | 95 |
And Sakic didn't round out his game until after he had many seasons to try to reach Yzerman's peak season by "sacrificing defense" as you point it.
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
1. Mario Lemieux* • PIT 199 2. Wayne Gretzky* • LAK 168 3. Steve Yzerman* • DET 155 4. Bernie Nicholls • LAK 150 5. Rob Brown • PIT 115 In 2000-01, Sakic likely wins the Art Ross by 20 points if Mario Lemieux didn't come out of retirement to give Jagr a sustained kick in the butt.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
1. Jaromir Jagr • PIT 121 2. Joe Sakic* • COL 118 3. Patrik Elias • NJD 96 4. Jason Allison • BOS 95 Alex Kovalev • PIT 95 Martin Straka • PIT 95
Yzerman's season might be marginally more impressive offensively, all things considered. But Sakic was also a strong two-way player by 2000-01, taking on a pretty big defensive role for his team.
Yes, they both become good (sakic) or great (yzerman) defensive players around the same point in their respective careers. But Sakic's offense didn't drop at this point in his career like Yzerman's did. Sakic first received a nontrivial number of Selke votes in 1999-00. From this point on in his career, he finished 8th (2000), 2nd (2001), 5th (2002), 2nd (2004), 6th (2007) in NHL scoring. Two-way Yzerman peaked at 10th in scoring in 2000, his only top 10 finish after 1993.
well at least we can probably all agree that yzerman is the infinitely better executive...
You're free to ignore it if you'd like.For f***s sake some please end this thread now at page 19 please ??!! Also sorry but one of these guys is known sport wide as the Captain for a reason ..
Lol i really just meant 19 pages is an appropriate ending point for a thread about the 2 most legendary number 19s in the sports historyYou're free to ignore it if you'd like.
Lol i really just meant 19 pages is an appropriate ending point for a thread about the 2 most legendary number 19s in the sports history
Not to mention this guy...Except that at least Yzerman actually wanted 19 because of Bryan Trottier. I can't remember if Sakic was the same. So you forgot a pretty important #19.