Yzerman vs Sakic

Krigsgaldr

Registered User
Jul 25, 2011
526
189
Lexington Kentucky
Trottier-Bossy was a better duo than anyone linked with Yzerman or Sakic. But individually the latter two surpass both of the former in ability if not greatness.
Definitely ability but not so sure on the greatness he was a touch before my time so I’m going off what I saw and that when I see 19 I think of those two. I definitely remember Stevie saying that’s why 19 was his number though . I totally forgot boss was a 19 though for some reason I was thinking 16
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,794
16,262
Except that at least Yzerman actually wanted 19 because of Bryan Trottier. I can't remember if Sakic was the same. So you forgot a pretty important #19. :)

also this guy

1702828896809.jpeg
 

Jim MacDonald

Registered User
Oct 7, 2017
703
180
In a few decades, history will show that it's easily Sakic.
Hi Devil. Obviously my avatar would show my bias/answer :laugh:. Very interested in knowing how the passage of time will make this "easily" in Sakic's favor. Also welcome your current thoughts/reasoning as of 2023. I know I'm not a regularly active member on the board, but if it's worth noting I give my word I'm truly interested in your answers (and everyone elses for that matter) and promise this isn't baiting to get into a "pissing match" as they say! 🤝 👍
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobnobs

Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
8,909
2,267
He basically sacrificed defense for that offense. And offensively, Sakic was way ahead of the pack in 2001, just as Yzerman was in 1989.

Jesus christ.. This is such a bad take from someone who obviously didn't watch any Wings games from the 89 season.

Though tbf this whole thread is filled with bad takes but this one is particularly damning. I just hope it's ignorance and not pure bias.

Watch games from that season and you will see that Yzerman was still very much a competent Sakic level two-way player in 89 adjusted for that era. The reason he scored so much was because of him back checking hard in the neutral zone and robbing players of pucks and being a master at puck possession. Mind boggling takes, really.
 

The Panther

Registered User
Mar 25, 2014
19,225
15,812
Tokyo, Japan
Jesus christ.. This is such a bad take from someone who obviously didn't watch any Wings games from the 89 season.

Though tbf this whole thread is filled with bad takes but this one is particularly damning. I just hope it's ignorance and not pure bias.

Watch games from that season and you will see that Yzerman was still very much a competent Sakic level two-way player in 89 adjusted for that era. The reason he scored so much was because of him back checking hard in the neutral zone and robbing players of pucks and being a master at puck possession. Mind boggling takes, really.
I think there's room for some nuanced evaluation here. As with most highly-skilled, offensive players who were depended upon to score, neither Yzerman nor Sakic were particularly good defensive forwards in their earlier seasons. But that's entirely normal and was probably by (coach's) design. (The Wings were so bad in 1985-86, and the Nordiques from around 1989 to 1992, that it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.)

I do think it's fair to say that Jacques Demers "took the reigns off" Yzerman somewhat in the 1988-89 and 1989-90 seasons, which partly explain's Yzerman's offensive leap in the former season. It doesn't mean Yzerman "sacrificed defence" or whatever the latest extreme opinion is, but the stats do tell a story:

Here's Yzermans total on-ice goals-against:
1986-87 -- 88
1987-88 -- 75
1988-89 -- 152
1989-90 -- 166
This makes it look worse than it actually was because of his missed games in 1987-88. Also, some of the 1989-jump can be explained by Yzerman's killing penalties more, as his 1987-88 pace for PP-goals against was about 20, and in 1988-89 it's 45, while in 1989-90 it's 50 (either that, or he got worse at killing penalties).

Anyway, factoring in the games Yzerman missed in 1987-88 and also ignoring PP goals-against, his ES (and/or SH) goal-against per 80 GP each season is like this:
1986-87: 74
1987-88: 75
1988-89: 107
1989-90: 117

The Wings, as a team, allowed 47 more goals against in 1988-89 than in 1987-88, so it would seem that difference was mostly when Yzerman was on the ice.

Given all this, and given that Yzerman scored 40 more ES points in 1988-89 than in 1987-88 while dropping from +30 to +17, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that his/Demers' strategy was more all-out offense in 1988-89 than in 1987-88, when the Wings had mainly been known for their strong team defense.

Of course, any suggestion that Sakic was "clearly" stronger for this flimsy reason is utter nonsense. We pause here to remember Sakic's -102 his first three seasons in the League...
 
Last edited:

Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
8,909
2,267
I think there's room for some nuanced evaluation here. As with most highly-skilled, offensive players who were depended upon to score, neither Yzerman nor Sakic were particularly good defensive forwards in their earlier seasons. But that's entirely normal and was probably by (coach's) design. (The Wings were so bad in 1985-86, and the Nordiques from around 1989 to 1992, that it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.)

I do think it's fair to say that Jacques Demers "took the reigns off" Yzerman somewhat in the 1988-89 and 1989-90 seasons, which partly explain's Yzerman's offensive leap in the former season. It doesn't mean Yzerman "sacrificed defence" or whatever the latest extreme opinion is, but the stats do tell a story:

Here's Yzermans total on-ice goals-against:
1986-87 -- 88
1987-88 -- 75
1988-89 -- 152
1989-90 -- 166
This makes it look worse than it actually was because of his missed games in 1987-88. Also, some of the 1989-jump can be explained by Yzerman's killing penalties more, as his 1987-88 pace for PP-goals against was about 20, and in 1988-89 it's 45, while in 1989-90 it's 50 (either that, or he got worse at killing penalties).

Anyway, factoring in the games Yzerman missed in 1987-88 and also ignoring PP goals-against, his ES (and/or SH) goal-against per 80 GP each season is like this:
1986-87: 74
1987-88: 75
1988-89: 107
1989-90: 117

The Wings, as a team, allowed 47 more goals against in 1988-89 than in 1987-88, so it would seem that difference was mostly when Yzerman was on the ice.

Given all this, and given that Yzerman scored 40 more ES points in 1988-89 than in 1987-88 while dropping from +30 to +17, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that his/Demers' strategy was more all-out offense in 1988-89 than in 1987-88, when the Wings had mainly been known for their strong team defense.

Of course, any suggestion that Sakic was "clearly" stronger for this flimsy reason is utter nonsense. We pause here to remember Sakic's -102 his first three seasons in the League...

This is a pretty nuanced take imo. What's missing is that Detroits defensemen all took a step back during the 89 and 90 seasons. At the beginning of the 89 season the defense included legends like Halward, Norwood (decent but starting to fall off and oft injured), Zombo, Jim Pavese, Sharples, Delorme, O'Connell and with Chiasson and Houda earning spots later on.

Zombo and Chiasson would be the only ones left after the 90 season (Norwood was still there but they were trying to get rid of him)

The forward core was filled with offense only or young inexperienced players. No matter how good Yzerman played defensively there is just no way one guy can prevent GA with such a terrible defense around him.

Red wings didn't really adress the defensive woes until the 91 season (well they tried with Salming). Bringing in Green and McCrimmon. As well as more quality youngsters.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad