Salary Cap: You've never heard of the HFBoard Pens? It did the Kessel Run in 982 posts Part IX

[KIRK]

That's WAY too much for Kessel. No way. No way, no way, nooooooooo way (meaning KK+Pouliot)

People are overvaluing Kessel. Remember when everyone thought Iginla would go for a King's ransom...and he goes for a 1st+2 b prospects? Same thing is gonna happen here.

Iginla's no trade list was one team when push came to shove. And, Iginla was an impending UFA. Bad comparison.

The Nash comparison is better IMO.

Ultimately, it depends if Kessel's list remains the same and if he's not willing to expand it. If that's the case, then the price will be lower than some thing. But, not Iginla lower.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

That's WAY too much for Kessel. No way. No way, no way, nooooooooo way (meaning KK+Pouliot)

People are overvaluing Kessel. Remember when everyone thought Iginla would go for a King's ransom...and he goes for a 1st+2 b prospects? Same thing is gonna happen here.

To be fair, Iginla wasn't a 27 year old, all-world winger who put up 30g+ on a horrendous team. He was a 36 year old rental well into the twilight of his career, and he chose to be traded to Pittsburgh. Nearly incomparable situations.

 

[IcedCapp]

Just because the Penguins brain trust thought Lovejoy = Despres doesn't mean Shanny and company will see it similarly.

dude insinuated trade value was karmic-based!

 

[KIRK]

Random thoughts on acquiring Kessel:

1. If there's a guy who could **** up a PP with Sid, Geno, Kessel, and Horny, it's Rick Tocchet, who will play Horny high slot, Geno left point, Kessel down low on the right, and Sid in the right circle . . . with Letang at the right point of course . . .

2. One guy I wouldn't mind adding is Komarov. I've seen the suggested Kapanen, Jarry/Murray, Scuderi, 1st thing out there that seems to not be getting destroyed. Maybe the Pens add Kunitz and the Leafs add Komarov. I mean, reality is, adding Kessel, there's no way the Pens have big money for a L2 LW. But, if you've got a Komarov and a Comeau and a Bennett, a good bench boss should be able to make it work with a Malkin-Kessel combo riding the hot hand on any given night. Alas, as with the PP, what a good bench boss would do may not apply . . .

3. If I'm Sid/Geno, I'd be really encouraged if JR could pull it off.

 

[BustaKapanen]

Gimme kessel for all the $$$$'s

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Saw the board, seems montreal would offer Galchenyuk + Beaulieu + DLR +1st? Something of the sort.

Philly, montreal, minnesota, and PIT are the 4 realistic teams, and philly doesnt have defense to offer. Could anyone imagine montreal and toronto being trade partners though?

I don't see Montreal making that offer at all, that's something they would regret big time.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Saw the board, seems montreal would offer Galchenyuk + Beaulieu + DLR +1st? Something of the sort.

Philly, montreal, minnesota, and PIT are the 4 realistic teams, and philly doesnt have defense to offer. Could anyone imagine montreal and toronto being trade partners though?

There's no way in hell Montreal would trade Galchenyuk for Kessel.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There is no reason we can't play young players in our bottom-6 and not have good depth from that. We don't need a Staal level 3C or something like that, we just need a cheap bottom-6 that isn't a liability. DSB and WSC accomplish both of those.

I mentioned in another post that it would be Sutter, KK, Harrington and a 1st for Kessel in this hypothetical situation. The top-6 would have PCH and probably Kunitz with Malkin and Kessel, which we could afford.

Any of those mock-ups involving Kessel have us scrimping in every other area (including rounding out the top 6) with crossed fingers.

If we're finally going to free up room by jettisoning our waste, going right out and committing everything to Kessel isn't what I'd want. If we're spending the assets anyway, might as well try to get a JvR type for half the cap hit and try to fill out the roster properly.

 

[Boocock]

Of the 8 other teams...what's the best they would be willing to offer, you think?

Asking the real questions...

Saw the board, seems montreal would offer Galchenyuk + Beaulieu + DLR +1st? Something of the sort.

Philly, montreal, minnesota, and PIT are the 4 realistic teams, and philly doesnt have defense to offer. Could anyone imagine montreal and toronto being trade partners though?

...and providing the real answers.

Are we able to offer more than the other interested parties? That's the real question here.

The deal would address a monumental problem the team has had since the Staal trade: we have a gaping hole in our core. Jordan Staal wasn't just a 3C - he was a major part of the team's identity. Kessel could be that guy.

But Dr. Pepper is telling the truth here - Kessel provides a long-term solution to a major problem, but it also creates a few major holes in the lineup.

PS: Any Pens lineup w/ Beleskey is a joke. We're looking to take a great player of the Maple Leafs; we're not in the business of becoming the Maple Leafs by signing another Clarkson-like deal.

 

[BustaKapanen]

Gimme kessel for all the $$$$'s

 

[BustaKapanen]

Sorry I hit refresh on the submission my bad

 

[KIRK]

dude insinuated trade value was karmic-based!

Oh, okay . . .

You know, all seriousness, there are a lot of variations of trades you could do with the Leafs.

And, I could see them accepting Scuderi as a dump, since they don't have many D under contract and it's only 2 years.

I could see an expansion of the deal where Kunitz and Komarov are involved.

Don't see Lupul, unless they eat dollars, but you never know.

Wouldn't surprise me, as billybudd wrote in the last thread, to see Perron out there.

And then there's JVR . . .

Better still, imagine if the Pens were an organization more interesting in winning than anything . . . gotta think Toronto would take Dupuis as a dump (worst case, the money is off in two years; best case, they can Horton him).

 

[BustaKapanen]

dude insinuated trade value was karmic-based!

Obviously I was being sarcastic...obviously.(after years of listening to tomlins press conference I'm under the impression that 1 obviously needs to be followed by another obviously shortly after)

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I genuinely believe we're ****ed either way this season. We don't have the depth or the way to rebuild quickly enough to legitimately compete for a Cup, but I'm 100% on board with trying to land a stud winger to fix the top six once and for all.

I just wouldn't go after Kessel as that guy.

I'd try my damnedest to offer sheet Saad. I'd try to land either ROR or Hall.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Then I hope the Leafs and Habs make that deal, it'll be hilarious.

Kessel would be eaten alive in Montreal with the whole french ******** and Galchenyuk would be their future Captain.

He hates the Leafs media, Habs media is worse and they're in francias. It cracks me up he picked the Habs and I think he did that on purpose because he didn't like the other options. In Philly he'd be hated by his own fans when he has his casual attitude about stuff.

In LA his offense will be stifled, he'd be a 60-70pt player maybe at best.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I genuinely believe we're ****ed either way this season. We don't have the depth or the way to rebuild quickly enough to legitimately compete for a Cup, but I'm 100% on board with trying to land a stud winger to fix the top six once and for all.

I just wouldn't go after Kessel as that guy.

I think people here are way too panicked. At worst they play the kids...I am more than happy with that, it's a youth movement that was supposed to happen sooner. Better late than never.

 

[mpp9]

Kessel is a better fit for this team than ROR.

 

[Penguinator]

Then I hope the Leafs and Habs make that deal, it'll be hilarious.

Kessel would be eaten alive in Montreal with the whole french ******** and Galchenyuk would be their future Captain.

He hates the Leafs media, Habs media is worse and they're in francias. It cracks me up he picked the Habs and I think he did that on purpose because he didn't like the other options. In Philly he'd be hated by his own fans when he has his casual attitude about stuff.

In LA his offense will be stifled, he'd be a 60-70pt player maybe at best.

Media circus all right down there too!
(btw it's spelled 'français' & Montréal is pretty much bilingual)

Fact is Kessel's offensive abilities would probably get stifled by MT's conservative/defensive system.

 

[KIRK]

Any of those mock-ups involving Kessel have us scrimping in every other area (including rounding out the top 6) with crossed fingers.

If we're finally going to free up room by jettisoning our waste, going right out and committing everything to Kessel isn't what I'd want. If we're spending the assets anyway, might as well try to get a JvR type for half the cap hit and try to fill out the roster properly.

Why not go for both?

 

[KIRK]

Kessel is a better fit for this team than ROR.

He'd look good low on the right side on Tocchet's PP.

Media circus all right down there too!
(btw it's spelled 'français' & Montréal is pretty much bilingual)

Fact is Kessel's offensive abilities would probably get stifled by MT's conservative/defensive system.

I can't see Toronto trading Kessel in division.

 

[BHD]

So... who is going to trade for Kessel?

Bruins - I don't see him landing back there for some reason.
Hawks - They are currently in the process of dumping, not adding, players.
Kings - They are a mess at the moment.
Wild - Maybe.
Habs - That would be hilarious if it were to happen. However, they are a divisional rival. So it won't.
Rangers - You just never know with Sather.
Flyers - Hopefully not.
Penguins - ?????

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Kessel is a better fit for this team than ROR.

Debatable. But his contract and the price it'd take to get him aren't.

 

[KIRK]

So... who is going to trade for Kessel?

Bruins - I don't see him landing back there for some reason.
Hawks - They are currently in the process of dumping, not adding, players.
Kings - They are a mess at the moment.
Wild - Maybe.
Habs - That would be hilarious if it were to happen. However, they are a divisional rival. So it won't.
Rangers - You just never know with Sather.
Flyers - Hopefully not.
Penguins - ?????

If Kessel won't consider anyone else, then I think it's a three horse race among the Rangers, Flyers, and Pens, and I think Toronto will leverage that for all it's worth.

 

[SEALBound]

I would much rather grab a couple younger guys that can hopefully develop into impact players rather than go after Kessel. He just doesn't do it for me. I don't think it would be a good trade.

XXXX-Crosby-Hornqvist
Perron-Malkin-XXXX
Bennett-XXXX-Dupuis
XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

Ad Hoc: Kunitz, Sutter, Spaling

Adams and Lapierre won't be back. I doubt Downie is signed. Comeau is a wild card that will likely depend on price and term. He needs to look for a pay day elsewhere. 700k for 4th line duties...at this point I'd rather use a WBS guy.

If Dupuis is staying, Kunitz has to go. We can't afford to keep both. It is time to start undoing Shero's doings. Sending a vet who can still score 20g @ 3.75k shouldn't be a daunting task. There should be takers. There are several ways to approach it too:

To Anaheim for a younger wing like Etem. This would be after July 1st if they lose Belesky.

To NJ because they need some offense. Would take a 2nd preferably but would settle for a 3rd. Would even take a 2016 2nd or 3rd.

I would really love to move Spaling. I understand why they got him and signed him at the time...but I think this is another guy we should try to move on from. Just got to find a team that needs a utility 3rd line wing/center. Here's why...we have several WBS guys that can fill that void at a much lower cost. Would take a prospect or a 3rd for him.

Sutter is an obvious choice to be moved as well. I believe there are a couple teams out there than need a 3C. Again, Anaheim could be an interesting team to trade with. They are rich with young wingers, Thompson had major shoulder surgery...a deal could be made. Winnapeg, Buffalo, and even the Bruins could use him. 1st from Buff/Winn for Sutter+3rd from 2016, something around Eriksson from Bruins. Or try to work out a bigger trade for a winger.

So getting rid of those three is no impossible. You have to be willing to put it out there. Worst case, we trade them and we get no one back and we are not able to sign ANYONE of interest :

Kapanen-Crosby-Hornqvist
Perron-Malkin-Bennett
Megna-Sundqvist-Dupuis
Wilson-Ebbett-Farnham

You can't tell me that at some point in the season injuries won't force a roster like that...

Let's now say Kunitz, Sutter, and Spaling all go and we get Etem (or other comparable), a 1st, and a 3rd total back. We insert Sundqvist into the lineup and we send Kappy to the AHL to start. Pursue Plotnikov. Starting to sound like a broken record maybe, but pursuing someone like him makes a ton of sense. Mark my words, there will be a couple KHL guys that come over that teams take a chance on...and they will turn heads.

I would then try to target a prospect. I'm really high on Rychel. Watched some videos on him and read scouting reports...I can see why Columbus picked him up in the 1st round. They need defensive help and he may be available. Likely he goes in a package for a top 4 but if not, a Harrington/Dumoulin - Rychel swap could benefit both teams. Harry or Dumo are easy 3rd pairing guys for them with more than enough potential to be in their top 4.

Using what we got now:

XXXX-Crosby-Hornqvist
Perron-Malkin-Plotnikov
Bennett-Sundqvist-Dupuis
Rychel-XXXX-Etem

4C's are easy to find or you sign Soderberg or Mathias and slot Sundy at 4C. Rychel-Sundy-Etem would be a heck of a 4th line for us.

That just leaves Sid's LW. Could find someone else for Malkin and slot Perron with Sid too. Lots of options. Or...THIS is where a Saad offer sheet would be awesome. With the Kuni, Sutter, Spaling, Scuds trades you get a 2nd by whatever means necessary. 6.5mil...go for it.

Defense:

Letang-Maatta
Pouliot-Cole
Lovejoy-Dumoulin
Chorney

Could use some of the 2016 picks on dmen or if we are able to get Rychel and an Etem and then have Kappy and Sundqvist, I would be opposed to using the 1st gained above or our 2nd on a dman. Would also be beneficial to go after guys like Oksanen (and Reilly ).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So... who is going to trade for Kessel?

Bruins - I don't see him landing back there for some reason.
Hawks - They are currently in the process of dumping, not adding, players.
Kings - They are a mess at the moment.
Wild - Maybe.
Habs - That would be hilarious if it were to happen. However, they are a divisional rival. So it won't.
Rangers - You just never know with Sather.
Flyers - Hopefully not.
Penguins - ?????

I think this is what his agent was thinking. There are 3 teams he is really interested in and it's Flyers, Penguins, and Rangers. The others can't afford him because of their core and might not even really want to add that salary.

It's like having a 3 list submission and you're a Pens player, a very good one and those 3 are: Flyers, Rangers, and then your real team. You know damn well they won't ship your ass to 2 rivals.