RorschachWJK
Registered User
- Dec 28, 2004
- 4,943
- 1,305
How is this interesting? Two teams behaving like idiots on an international stage. Nothing to be proud of for either team.
How is this interesting? Two teams behaving like idiots on an international stage. Nothing to be proud of for either team.
Defending your team-mates against planned goonery goonery is not "behaving like idiots"
There is only one team of idiots and that was the Soviets,time to stop making excuses for that entries behaviour.
The Soviets take 100% of the blame and discrace for this incident.Our players stood up for our guys and absolutely did the right thing,they acted with honour and if had done otherwise then they would have been "idiots"
They asked for it.............and we ended it,case closed.
Probably no team in that tournaments history that we have sent that i'm more proud of.
Can't help but be proud at the refusal to accept orchestrated goonery from Soviet hockey.They acted like men in response..............good job!!!
PIESTANY PUNCHUP ( source wikipedia.org )
…With Canada leading 4-2 at the time of the brawl, Soviet player Pavel Kostichkin took a two handed slash at Theoren Fleury beginning the melee. The Soviet Union's Evgeny Davydov was the first player off the bench, leading to both benches clearing. The officials could not break up the fight so they left the ice and eventually tried turning out the arena lights. The brawl lasted for 20 minutes. Afterwards, Soviet hockey official Anatoly Kastriukov claimed a trainer for the Canadian team had fuelled hostilities by coming over to the Soviet bench and pummelling one of their assistant coaches. The Canadians maintained that the Soviets had started the brawl by leaving their bench first. Neither team was allowed to attend the players' banquet at the end of the tournament, and the standings were resorted after the disqualification.
Mike Keane remembers the silence in the dressing room.
"In brawls, usually guys are talking about the brawls and their fights and everything else, but it was kind of a sombre mood after," the Manitoba Moose captain recalled the other day. "We knew something was going to happen, (officials) were going to discuss what to do. Nothing like this ever happened before, so we didn't know if we were going to be thrown out of the tournament or if we were going to be suspended or whatever."
Next month marks the 20th anniversary of the Punch-up in Piestany, the infamous bench-clearing brawl between Canada and the Soviet Union at the World Junior Championships in Czechoslovakia. The 1987 melee -- the blackest mark on the game within international circles -- started as a skirmish between Russell's Theo Fleury and Pavel Kostichkin, and soon escalated into a line brawl.
Keane was on the ice and right in the middle of it. Players left the bench and with Canada up two goals halfway through the chippy contest (and needing to win by five to claim the gold medal), the teams were sent to their rooms once order was restored.
"Guys were getting fixed up and preparing to play," Keane said. "We were ready to go (out there) again."
After much deliberation by officials (brawling was a subject they never broached at past tournaments), both Canada and the Soviets were banished from the tournament records. The countries were wiped from the standings, any leading scorers either club had wouldn't be counted in the final tally, and forget about an all-star spot.
The game was finished. Turn out the lights. They did.
"We were just a bunch of junior kids, so a lot of us weren't really thinking that far ahead," Keane said. "You're thinking about the game, about the brawl. In junior, that happened all the time, so it wasn't a big deal to us. We knew this was the first time in international hockey that this had happened, and that's why (officials) were so dumbfounded on what to do.
"Guys were upset and crying when we found out," Keane added. "It was a real emotional time."
Two decades later and Keane still recalls most of what happened.
He remembers the initial fracas, how the Soviet goaltender got involved. He remembers first beating up Valeri Zelepukin and then moving on to defenceman Vladimir Malakhov. There was a third Soviet the three-time Stanley Cup champ squared off with, but Keane wasn't sure who it was.
Helmet swinging
He remembers Everett Sanipass on top of someone. He remembers Greg Hawgood chasing a player around the ice, swinging his helmet. He remembers thinking about the gold medal, how its value was no longer worth the metal it claimed to be. He remembers how relieved he felt when nearly all of his teammates changed their focus, too -- right around the time the Soviets poured onto the ice (former Winnipeg Jet Evgeny Davydov was the first guy over the boards).
"I was happy I saw Luke Richardson, Yvon Corriveau, and these sorts of players come off the bench," Keane said. "If they didn't come and were worried about the gold medal ... well, things could have got ugly."
Piestany was Keane's first and last international tournament.
I wouldn't even know who's to blame as I don't think I have ever watched the incident.
A Canadian accusing the Soviets of goonery?
You might want to check it out bouciat as viewing it will most likely toss that rose coloured glasses view you seem to hold about Soviet/Russian hockey. I've noticed several times in the past you've posted things about Bobby Clarke's actions and how it cost Canada morally,that's fine and i would agree. But a fair poster has to call it down the middle despite their team preferences and this is one of those instances that is at the top of International hockey goonery lore and the Soviets are to blame.
A balance of perspective never hurts and this doozy sure calls Soviet and Russian hockey out.It's as bad as it's ever gotten in international hockey and they are in the wrong 100%.
A long rooted love for Soviet hockey should'nt sweep aside their transgressions and give them or anybody else a free pass. If someone is going to call anyone out they should call it fair down the middle.
Our boys did what they had to do and rightly so................they were the farthest thing from idiots that day as you can imagine. Idiots were on the ice and on a certain bench,but not ours.
If the Soviets left the bench first then they are clearly to blame for the brawl. If the Canadian coach did what he was claimed by the Soviets then it's not so clear cut.
Still, in my opinion it's two teams behaving like idiots, with the coaches likely being the biggest idiots of all.
I have no interest in digging up stuff like this and watching it. If there's a brawl in a game that I'm watching live, that's fine. Otherwise, I'm just not interested in watching that sort of stuff. I have unfortunately had my share of street fights in the past so I know pretty well what is worth glorifying and what's not.
Oh they definately left the bench first,that's never been in dispute by anyone.
Our coach was'nt an idiot,unless you consider having your players beat to a bloody pulp by 3 to 1 odds as "idiotic"
If the roles were reversed and Finlands coach did that i can't see it going over very well with the locals in Finland,you can't let your guys just get slaughtered by an overwhelming numerical force.
I'm just asking if you're willing to call it straight down the middle and i'm not sure if that's been answered here.They left the bench first,if that's Canada doing that............all of Europe is on us.I ask you.............................does the top not spin both ways?
I still see a refusal to admit and hold consistent standards.A coach? what does that have to do with a brawl between players on the ice in which you decide to send your team over the boards first?
Is this yet another case of fans from there talking the talk................but not walking the walk?
Very interesting to say the least. I can say one thing for hockey fans from Europe.........they don't go gently into that good night.
'If the Soviets left the bench first then they are clearly to blame for the brawl. If the Canadian coach did what he was claimed by the Soviets then it's not so clear cut.'
Which part of the above did you not understand? It says clearly that the Soviets are to blame since they left the bench first. However, IF, and that's a big IF (pun intended), there were actions by the Canadian coach (as claimed by one of the Soviet fans) that led the way so to speak, then it's not so clear. IMO that still implies that Soviets bear most of the responsibility even in that case.
What the heck are you talking about ? The Canadian trainer scrapping with one of the Russian coaches...Happened AFTER...Repeat AFTER the melee was well under way...In no way does it change the fact ...not one iota ...that the Soviets started the brawl...
The thing that our coaches / trainer etcetera were furious about...was that the Soviet actions...appeared to our side...premeditated...remember Canada and Russia have always been Big Junior ( et al ) rivals ...CCCP was already out of the medals, so they were not unhappy dragging us down with them...
Reportedly, the CCCP coaches were laughing and taunting our bench...which precipitated the bench fight...but by then there was already a lot of bad blood...and more than a dozen fights on the ice...So this bench fight was just a secondary part of the fray...
In no way shape or form...does it resolve CCCP of any blame...IMO
They wanted it ...they started it...we paid them back in kind...so what, if it spread to the benches, after the fact ?...that happens a lot in North America...coaches etc getting into it ...its not that uncommon...as I'm sure u know...
How do you know the actual Soviet side of the story? All of what you know comes from Canadians.The Soviet explanation is weak kneed at best...Brawls begin on the ICe...Never but Never on the opposition bench between coaches and trainers etcetera...That is obviously pure nonsense !
You sure "your boys" were not the idiots who were trying to be bullies, agitating and cheapshotting Soviet players? That is how the Soviet coach, Valery Vasiliev, described your team.Our boys did what they had to do and rightly so................they were the farthest thing from idiots that day as you can imagine. Idiots were on the ice and on a certain bench,but not ours.
Because Canadians are always guilty of that behavior.Why not? what does being Canadian have to do with calling out behaviour from anyone as it is and was?
I don't get the logical connection here from you.
But who provoked them to? According to Vasiliev, a few Soviet players misunderstood him and left the bench after he yelled for the players on the ice to help Zelepukin who reinjured his shoulder after a hit just before the fight.Oh they definately left the bench first,that's never been in dispute by anyone.
According to Vasiliev, there was no fight. The Canadian trainer challenged one of the Soviet coaches who refused because he knew he would kill the trainer.What the heck are you talking about ? The Canadian trainer scrapping with one of the Russian coaches...Happened AFTER...Repeat AFTER the melee was well under way...In no way does it change the fact ...not one iota ...that the Soviets started the brawl...
The thing that our coaches / trainer etcetera were furious about...was that the Soviet actions...appeared to our side...premeditated...remember Canada and Russia have always been Big Junior ( et al ) rivals ...CCCP was already out of the medals, so they were not unhappy dragging us down with them...
Reportedly, the CCCP coaches were laughing and taunting our bench...which precipitated the bench fight...but by then there was already a lot of bad blood...and more than a dozen fights on the ice...So this bench fight was just a secondary part of the fray...
How many times do I have to tell you that nobody there cares.This is an issue that has been swept under the rug very well by fans from over there and it should'nt be.
Has Canada admitted its misdeeds?hopefully there can be some frank admittance in the future of every teams misdeeds if they engage in it........not just a certain countries.
According to Vasiliev, a few Soviet players MISUNDERSTOOD him and left the bench after he yelled for the players on the ice to help Zelepukin who reinjured his shoulder after a hit just before the fight.
Well what else would they say? That he did the right thing? I am talking about some of the other misdeeds that you keep on denying.I see Canadian fans admitting to misdeeds all the time on this forum.i've lost count of the number of canuck posters who have fessed up about bobby Clarke's actions on Kharlamov.
I did not say they did nothing wrong, but do you think it is a coincidence that Canada is always involved in this kind of stuff.of course,the Soviets did'nt do anything wrong right? does'nt matter the tape clearly shows them leaving the bench first,who cares right? that stuff only shows guilt when Canada is doing it.
Provoked by your team's dirty play. The Soviet juniors did not have the discipline of the pros to ignore it and focus on the game.Who "provoked" the Soviets to leave the bench?......what the hell does that have to do with anything?
Again, most don't even know anything about it, except maybe seeing the video on the Internet. It was never a big issue there. No one feels ashamed that their team "started it". Why would they knowing the reputation of Canadians?they are'nt going to want to even recall their teams goonery at that event.Remembering and caring is only reserved for Canadian hockey misdeeds.That's the way the fans work over there!!!
Again, what video are you watching?I don't really care that much...............your players got their cans whooped,that's good enough for me. hell,i'm glad the Soviets let their hair down and felt like starting a brawl personally,i got to see them beaten all over the ice...............hard to put a price on that.
He was fighting with one good hand it seems.Zelepukin got the crap beat outa him by Mike Keane...
They left the bench not only because of the misunderstanding, but also because of the tension your team created in that game.BUT Vasiliev...by his own words clearly let's the Cat Out of the Bag Here...He's basically searching for a weak kneed justification for the fact that it was His Team...REPEAT HIS TEAM !... which left the bench first ...Due to a MISUNDERSTANDING ?!?...Yeah Right...Sounds like another Sorry Russian excuse to Me...But so what ?... it changes nothing...So C'mon Y-29 ... Be a Man of Honor and Admit the Obvious...YOU'RE GUYS LEFT THE BENCH FIRST...SO LIKE I SAID...THE RUSSIANS STARTED IT...WE FINISHED IT...ENDAFRIGGEN STOREY !!!
What Russian/Soviet actually said that?Btw I thought You Russians were provoked cause one of your assistant coaches was getting beaten up ?...Now that Sorry Excuse... Also goes up in Smoke Too Eh? ...It Is Too Laugh
Yes, how can you doubt anything that Candians say.Since You Russians Have Already Been Trapped In A Web Of Misinformation/Weak Kneed Excuses/Lies...I'd Tend to Believe Our Side of the Story...Not To Mention The VIDEO EVIDENCE !
So Ya ...I've No Doubt You're Assist Coach Also Got Smoked By Our Trainer Too !
Well what else would they say? That he did the right thing? I am talking about some of the other misdeeds that you keep on denying.
I did not say they did nothing wrong, but do you think it is a coincidence that Canada is always involved in this kind of stuff.
Provoked by your team's dirty play. The Soviet juniors did not have the discipline of the pros to ignore it ame.
Again, most don't even know anything about it, except maybe seeing the video on the Internet. It was never a big issue there. No one feels ashamed that their team "started it". Why would they knowing the reputation of Canadians?
Again, what video are you watching?
He was fighting with one good hand it seems.
They left the bench not only because of the misunderstanding, but also because of the tension your team created in that game.
Why would Vasiliev tell his players to go and start a brawl when he knew the consequences he would face when he got home?
What Russian/Soviet actually said that?
Yes, how can you doubt anything that Candians say.
I never said that they were guiltless.If you say they did nothing wrong then why have you had such a hard time saying it?
No one decided to start a brawl.Canada is always involved?......what does that have to do with your coaches and players decision to start a bench clearing brawl?
That video does not even show who went off the bench first and what happened before the fights.Provoked?.....of yes,Russia is always provoked!! Again,why are you having such a hard time admitting the team you cheer for instigated the worst brawl ever in international hockey? It does'nt mean your team blows to suck it up,be a man and admit they were goons that day.If you don't believe me just check out the tape,they left the bench first,what more can you say? Video evidence has been used as irrefutable proof by you in the past to prove wrongdoing in the Canada cup,does video evidence now mean nothing?
based on the hockey reputations of both countries, I can be sure that Canada instigated this in the beginning.
According to Vasiliev, a few Soviet players MISUNDERSTOOD him and left the bench after he yelled for the players on the ice to help Zelepukin who reinjured his shoulder after a hit just before the fight.
Who "provoked" the Soviets to leave the bench?
( Russians were ) Provoked by your team's dirty play. The Soviet juniors did not have the discipline of the pros to ignore it and focus on the game.
Soviet player Pavel Kostichkin took a two handed slash at Theoren Fleury beginning the melee
Btw I thought You Russians were provoked cause one of your assistant coaches was getting beaten up ?...Now that Sorry Excuse... Also goes up in Smoke Too Eh? ...It Is Too Laugh
What Russian/Soviet actually said that?
Soviet hockey official Anatoly Kastriukov claimed a trainer for the Canadian team had fuelled hostilities by coming over to the Soviet bench and pummelling one of their assistant coaches.
based on the hockey reputations of both countries, I can be sure that Canada instigated this in the beginning.
I don't mean who got off the bench first but who created the reason for that to happen and the overall tension in that game.You ( Ymb29 ) have already provided a quote from Vasiliev explaining why your team left the bench FIRST , because they mistook their coach's instructions vis a vis Zelepukin...So why are you backtracking ?
Again Vasiliev said that they weren't provoked ...that it began with a misunderstanding of his instructions to his players...so now your claiming they were provoked.?..WHAT NONSENSE....
"Canada sent a special team, a maliciously hooligan one, I would say. During the pre-game warm up, the Canadians are on their side of the ice, we are on ours. Every time they reached the red line, they would always jab at our players either with a stick or an elbow." -VasilievWhat dirty play ? Do you have even the slightest evidence of this ?
That is what a Canadian wrote. Do you think Fleury is innocent in all this?According to our sources the incident just prior to the brawl, was initiated by a slash by Pavel Kostichkin...
You are the one guilty of that. Do you honestly think that the Soviets would start a brawl because they did not want Canada to win anything. How did they know that both teams would be kicked out? Do you think Vasiliev would risk his job like that and order his players to start a brawl, knowing the policy of Soviet hockey? The Soviets did everything to not have a dirty and unsportsmanlike reputation in hockey, while the same cannot be said about the Canadians.And so it goes round and round...For the record...Any russian conspiracy theorist NUT can LOUDLY AND REPEATEDLY CLAIM ANYTHING...especially if he's as GOOD AT IGNORING...WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED/VIDEO EVIDENCE/EYE WITNESS TESTIMONY...as you so obviously are...