Your top 10 International Teams

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Big Phil, Mar 9, 2007.

  1. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    What's your list of the top 10 International Teams of all-time. Obviously we'll start from 1972 because up until then there was no Summit Series or Canada Cups. For the Olympics you'll obvioulsy have to start from '98 on.

    #1 1976 Team Canada - Some might wonder why this team is over the '87 Canadian team but look at that lineup. We all know about this teams defense core, but look at their forwards too there were a lot of guys in their primes. I put the '76 forwards at least on par with the '87 forwards. Vachon in net was good as well. I wish this tema dominated a bit more but they still had a couple of blowouts in the '76 CC. This team if you want to include Cheevers - who didnt see action - had 17 HHOFers.

    #2 1979-81 Soviets - This team is a close second. The beat the NHL All-stars in the Challenge Cup in '79 then basically the same team beat Canada 8-1 in the '81 CC. Tretiak and Myshkin were in net. By '81 the KLM line was there, Fetisov was young at the time. The only blemish was in '80 with this team. There's a reason why it's called the Miracle on Ice.

    #3 1987 Canada - As hard as it might be not having this team at #1 with Gretzky and Lemieux near their primes, you have to look at their results. Yes they beat a great Soviet team but they never really dominated the '87 CC in any game. I know the competition was stiff but its less than I'd want to see from this team. The defense outside of Coffey, Bourque and Murphy were solid but not great either. But Fuhr in net played every game and was in his prime. Anyone who questions his HHOF status needs to watch him here.

    #4 1987 Soviets - This team came within a whisker of winning. Fuhr's goaltending in Game 2 saved that. The KLM line was beter than ever. Fetisov and Kasatonov were better than ever. Kamensky was just starting out and man could he ever pull the moves. The only thing is goaltending. Tretiak was gone, so Mlynikov and Belosheikin were in there, and they were far from spectacular.

    #5 2002 Canada - This team might shock people but it shouldnt. I know they lost to Sweden 5-2 in the first game but after that they were 4-0-1. Look at the makeup of this team though. Look at the HHOFers on there (or future ones). There was no weakness wherever you looked. Think of all the players on that team and just how good they were at that time. Brodeur was brilliant, as was Sakic. Iggy played possibly the best game of Hockey in his life vs. the USA in the Gold Medal game. Keep in mind this team beat a strong USA team in Salt Lake. Look at the defense, goaltending and forwards. There was no weakness. Other than Patick "I wasnt in the original 8 picks so I wont play" Roy, and Joe Thornton who wasnt picked, these were the best Canadians in the NHL.

    #6 Team Canada 1972 - They might have looked shabby to start but we've always heard about how out of shape they were. Plus they didnt think the Russians were a threat, no one did. This team was missing Orr and Hull and Cheevers but was still good in all other areas. Espo, Cournoyer, Mahovolich, Ratelle, Gilbert, Clarke all up front. Savard, Lapointe, Park at the back end. In net Dryden and Esposito struggled but came through in the end. This team won three straight games back in the Evil Empire that was Russia even when those games were being compromised in the Soviets favour. Either way this team was still great, they probably had more heart than any team on this list, and not too bad of talent either.

    #7 1972 Soviets - This team went head to head with Canada. Tretiak was brilliant in games in Canada. Kharlamov was dynamite, and despite what people think that Clarke's slash hurt him the truth is that after game 1 he only scored one goal thanks to Ron Ellis' shadowing of him, something that never gets mentioned. Either way this team was skilled, fast and disciplined. Yakushev also would have been a star in the NHL I think. They came within a period of putting a black mark on an entire country.

    #8 2004 Canada - This team was stacked. In net there was Brodeur followed by Luongo. Theodore was there too and keep in mind in '04 he was pretty good. Up front Mario, Sakic, Iggy, Thornton, St. Louis, Richards, Heatley, Gagne, Lecavalier made up a good core. On defense it hurt that Pronger and Blake werent there but Niedermayer was as was a pretty solid defensive end. Luongo came through in that semi final game against the Czechs, but the problem was this team should have scored more. They never got more than 5 goals in a game. And while they dominated Slovakia twice (5-0, 5-1) they didnt beat the Americans, Russians, Czechs or Finns that much.

    #9 Canada 1984 - This team had Gretzky, Bossy, Messier, Coffey, Borque, Robinson, Goulet, Gartner and Tonelli who was the MVP of the tournament. In net was Pete Peeters and Reggie Lemelin and Fuhr played one game. Goaltending was solid but not dominant. They barely beat a Soviet team that was strong, but still they lost to the Swedes and tied the Americans in the round robin I cant put them higher than this.

    #10 USA 1996 - I hate this team more than any on this list but they have to be here. Winning two games in Montreal against Canada to win the World Cup was amazing any way you look at it. Weight, Lafontaine, Modano, Hull, Tkachuk, Leclair, Guerin and hero Amonte had a decent forward core. They were fast and their defense of Chelios, Leetch, Suter and the Hatcher brothers was great. But the big thing was Richter. He played incredible in that series. Canada would have been World Cup champs had it not been for him. USA only lost one game - to Canada - and beart some pretty good teams too. They beat Russia twice and Canada three times as well.


    HM - '84 Soviets - they were a good team but just couldnt get over the hump that was Canada

    '06 Sweden - Olympic champs but it was more a product of other teams underacheiving

    '91 Team Canada - Until the '04 WC squad no other country went unbeaten in tournament play. I like this team but no Mario, Bourque and a host of others. The line up is good but not overly impressive. There were a lot of stars missing.

    '76 Soviet Team Super Series - I like this team and it didnt resemble the '76 Canada Cup squad that didnt fare very well. I like how they beat Boston, NYR and tied Montreal but I dont like how they lost to Philly and get annihilated as well



    In the future a team I foresee cracking this list is possibly the 2010 Canadian Olympic team. Of course they have to win, but if Gretzky and co. dont screw it up this could be a team for the ages.
     
  2. ScaredStreit

    ScaredStreit Registered User

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    Why do you have to go out of your way and state that you hate the US Team of 96? Then talk down on them, like oh they beat canada in montreal twice, and point out that the only team they lost to was Canada. Honestly there's no real reason as why you'd hate the American team at all or at least go out of your way to express it.

    Being an American who has lived in Canada before for several years, and happens to love the country of Canada second (obviously second to my own), I must say that it's the small percentage of Canadians who make statements like this that really put a tint on Canadians in general. Most Canadians I've ever met are really friendly and great people-but it's the few that act like this that is honestly uncalled for.
     
  3. RorschachWJK

    RorschachWJK Registered User

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    Well, at least he gives some credit to Soviet teams instead of ranking 10 straight team Canadas.
     
  4. ScaredStreit

    ScaredStreit Registered User

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    True, I'm not arguing that the US deserves more teams up there (they don't), just saying I found the comments unecesary.
     
  5. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    Relax man dont be so sensitive. USS had a good team that year. Of course I hated that team - at the time - but not now. I pointed out that they beat Canada in Montreal as a way of showing you how well they did under the pressure. Finland didnt win in Toronto in 2004, but USA did in '96. On showing who the USA beat it proves that they had stiff competition. For example the '91 Canada Cup Canadian team was unbeaten but the best team was a USA team that was good but not '96 good yet. Therefore they didnt face as good as teams as say in '02 or '96 or '87. That's why they arent on the list.

    Team USA beat good teams like Russia (twice) and Canada (three times). The only team they lost to was a good Canadian team once. If they lose to Germany then that might hurt their ranking. The '87 Canada team lost to Russia once. The '76 team lost to the Czechs once. But those were all good team that they lost to. Its important to compare the competition, that's all it was.

    So....................throw your list out there
     
  6. canucksfan

    canucksfan Registered User

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    Pretty good list. I'd switch the 2002 Olympic team with the Summit Series team other than it's good.
     
  7. Zine

    Zine Registered User

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    You overrate the 1987 Soviets big time. Compared to other Soviet squads, I’d say they were actually sub-par. They had little depth at any position (relative to past soviet teams) and Mylnikov/Belosheikin couldn’t stop beach balls. Don't forget they lost to Sweden in the prelims before losing to Canada in the finals. Heck, they didn’t even win the world championships that year either.

    My top 3 (all I have time for at the moment)

    1. 1979 Soviets – Never has an international team been as dominant as the 1979 Soviets. Once they found their footing in the middle of game 2 of the challenge cup, they were about as untouchable as a team can be. From the 17:02 mark of the 2nd period of game 2 onward they outscored the NHL’s best 9-0. In addition, never in history has a Soviet team been as dominant at the world championships as the ’79 team was.

    2. 1976 Canada -- 17 HOF's is insane. As previously pointed out, the defense core was sick and I don't think any team has ever been as deep at forward as the '76 squad. Outscored their opponents 33-10. Plus, they had Bobby Orr.:yo:

    3. 1980 USA -- Going by results and not the names on the backs of their jerseys, these guys deserve #3. They were able to beat the Soviets (at arguably their height of dominance) when it counted. Not even the best NHLers could do that at that time. Plus, they thrashed the Czechs 7-3…..a team that could beat either the Soviets or Canadians on any given day in that era. ‘Miracle’ or not, for those 2 weeks this team was about as unbeatable as any team in history.
     
  8. GNick42

    GNick42 Guest

    The best team I ever saw was either the '76 Canada Cup team, or the '87 Canada Cup team. Remember the '79-81 Soviets lost to the Americans in '80
     
  9. Masao

    Masao Registered User

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    He said he hated the team, not that he hated Americans.

    You seriously need to calm down.
     
  10. Rexor

    Rexor Registered User

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    No offence, but your list is biased. Canada 2002? They were one of the
    worst teams in recent history to win such a big competition. Great players, yes,
    but their on-ice performance was simply disappointing. They were outplayed by
    Sweden, drawed with Czechs only thanks to an illegal goal, struggled against
    Germans (those Germans that SWE and CZE beat 7-2 or 8-2). In the quarterfinals
    they beat Finns in a tight game (the Finns had lost 0-6 to the USA earlier in the
    tournament). In the semifinals they beat Belarus:amazed: Their only really good
    game was the finals against Americans. Alright, it was enough for the gold,
    but this Canadian team was far from "great".
    You are also overrating 2004 Canada. They were outplayed by Czechs in the
    semifinals while having all possible advantages they could have (the game was
    held in Toronto, they were allowed to match Czech lines, no jet-lag, NA sized rink).
    Still they were outplayed and won only thanks to Mario and mighty Marek Malík.
     
  11. toastman344*

    toastman344* Guest

    I've always said that our 1976 Canada Cup Team was the Best We've Ever Iced...and arguably, the Best Team Ever Assembled...

    They did lose a game in the round robin to the Czechs ...But any Team can lose a game against top notch competition...If memory serves - yeah, to lazy to czech :) - the score was 1-0 and the Czech goalie stood on his head...

    Again if memory serves, Our guys avenged that loss by spanking the Czechs to the tune of 6-0 and then beating them again in OT on Sittler's goal - ask Don Cherry about that one :) - the final was a best of 3...

    Anyway great great team...simply an awesome lineup...
     
  12. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    As for the '02 Team it wasnt so much how they did when they came out of the gate. After that Czech game when they tied 3-3, NO ONE was going to beat them. I'll admit their record was less than phenomenal (4-1-1) but they were on a mission right from the start. To evaluate a team on this list you have to take into account how well they did in important games. Heck the '87 Canadian team lost 9-4 in an exhibition game to the Soviets. But they beat a good Czech team in the semis and a great team in the finals. Plus look at the '02lineup. There are a lot of Hall of Famers there. That goaltending and defense is impressive. Even the forwards are amazing. If you would put it down the list that's okay, maybe they should be but I take everything into account. Also in the Gold Medal game they outplayed the Americans, not badly, but it was obvious. What goal are you talking about in the Czech Canada gmae in '02? It was a 3-3 tie. Mario had two goals and Nieuwendyk got the late one. Mario's 2nd goal was reviewed but it was clear that it was in the net in Hasek's glove.

    The '04 Team dodged a bullet. Czechs outshot Canada 40-24 in the game. It was an ugly win in a way. Lecavalier saved our bacon as well as Luongo. I put them lower on the list because the level of competition in '04 wasnt like in '02. That helps too. The USA had an aging team in '04 and Russia was in shambles. That's why I put '02 higher, look at the rosters of those teams - all of them. Has there been better competition ever? I dont know. That helps IMO.
     
  13. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Registered User

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    So Canada in '02 is a great team, but Sweden in '06 is result of other teams underachieving? Why?


    World Cup teams doesn't belong on these kinds of lists since the US and Canadian teams always have an advantage in the playoffs.
     
  14. toastman344*

    toastman344* Guest

    lyinupnorth wrote:
    Kindly Explain this phantom advantage to me ? Several Canada C's + the 1996 World Cup had a best of 3 final , which meant that neither side could claim to be travel weary etc...Maybe at times the Swedes + Fins did do more travelling during the round robin, but those teams were usually pretty mediocre , and not much of a threat to beat Canada anyway...

    There were no other oportunities for best on best tourneys in those Canada Cup days...as our Best were unfairly excluded from the Olympics thanx to that pro Euro IIHF bias...

    Likewise the so called World Champs ...is held during Stanley Cup Playoffs ...and for years, even a lot of those NA players who were eligible to go , declined...Over here , ur WChamp has always been seen as a pro Euro tourney...which some absurdly biased refs at times...plus of course its NEVER been held in North America , so if any tourney should be excluded its the World Champ + those old ' sans NHLers ' Olympics
     
  15. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Registered User

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    The advantage is that the US/Canada always have the home ice, and then there is the small ice but that is not such a big point since most particpating players are NHL'ers.

    World Champs?? Has anyone even considered nominating one of those teams?
     
  16. Rexor

    Rexor Registered User

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    Yep, I was mentioning this goal and and it wasn't clear at all in my book. No replay
    camera showed the puck in the net. It was in Hašek's glove and thus completely
    hidden, the video referee was way too creative. Well, it's just a minor detail, no
    need to argue here.
    I agree that both Canadian teams we're talking about were full of great players.
    That said, especially the 02' team was underachieving in most of its games. It's great to have a squad with big names, but big names don't necessarilly lead to big
    on-ice performance. That was the case of the Salt Lake team imo, on the other hand, all that matters is the results, and they won the gold. I really don't think
    they were great though, I'd rather say lucky and experienced enough to win a
    competition where they were struggling most of the time.
    Call me a homer, but I'd take Czech team in Nagano 1998 (full of no-name players)
    over this Canadian Dream Team in a heartbeat.
     
  17. Crazyhorse

    Crazyhorse Registered User

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    Ridiculous post.

    No threat? The swedes had a shot in the post in the overtime vs Canada in the 96 Canada Cup/World Cup Semifinal. I bet you where riding trikes when that game was played...

    EDIT: I have to say that this thread was way way to biased to be taken seriously. The Canada win in 02 is one of the biggest wins ever? Talk about winning because of other teams underachievement. Sweden gave Canada a free entrance to the final, by letting by Belarus.
     
  18. toastman344*

    toastman344* Guest

    3kr-CrazyHorse:
    Read my comments again... If u notice I carefully couched the word MEDIOCRE , by including the corollary USUALLY...as in USUALLY MEDIOCRE ...There WERE exceptions ...Swedes also made a final in one of the Canada Cups ...Backstopped if memory serves by Pelle Lindbergh...Although they didn't seem that much of a threat to our Guys in the final...think that was 1984

    I was thinking more about ur 1976 and 1981 weak kneed Swede Sides...If memory serves 3kr's lost 8-6 to Finns...who were true Nobodies back then...Semi pro's and part timers mostly...Our 1976 side completely destroyed Suomi ( if memory serves ) to the tune of double digits :)

    3kr-CrazyHorse:
    Nice try Kronor...I'm 48 and a grandfather of two...aged 7 and 10...Not that it matters...BUT...they're both half-native...the reason I mention it, is that ur CrazyHorse monicker + ur location makes u sound like some pasty blonde ...NA First Nation's Wannabe :)...Rock On kiddo ! :)

    Rexor:
    I suppose deductive reasoning isn't ur strong suit eh ? His glove was several inches inside the net/past the goal line...and the puck was inside his glove...Ergo...THE PUCK WAS ALSO IN !!!

    Lyin-in-Sweden :
    Hmmm lemme get this straight...We Can't nominate World Cup or Canada Cup Teams ...Cuz North American Teams ( according to ur logic , or lack thereof ) had some huge homer advantage...Despite this, being the only True Best on Best Tourney in existence in the 70's , 80's and early 90's ...( A point Btw which Tretiak also cited ...in his book by the same name ! )

    And of course we can't nominate OG teams pre 1998 either...since our pros weren't allowed...So again...by ur *cough cough* logic :)....What pre 90's teams ( if any ) can we Nominate ????
     
    Last edited by moderator : Mar 11, 2007
  19. Crazyhorse

    Crazyhorse Registered User

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    By your logic, there never has been any best of the best tournament. I can argue that the 2004 World Cup wasn't a best of the best, since Mogilny, Fedorov, Khabibulin among others, didn't participate, because of the schism with the coaching staff. You can't base your argument on a hypothetical "would-have-been" thought. You will allways have injured players, and players that won't participate because of certain reasons. That might be overstating the case, but this talk is getting WAY old.
     
  20. toastman344*

    toastman344* Guest

    C-Horse:
    How do u figure ? The Current OG format is Best vs. Best...Ditto World Cup....Likewise I DID claim that the old Canada Cups were Best vs. Best...as btw did Tretiak in his book...That's also why I felt justified in nominating/agreeing that our 1976 CC Team Ranks #1 in the BEST EVER Category...It was UR Swede compatriot who objected to this...I merely asserted that his Logic was flawed...As Is Urs Btw...Apparently ,the Sarcasm I employed was a Tad too Subtle for Ya :)

    C-Horsey:
    Yeah its Definitely Too Old For U Kiddo...Probably time fer ur afternoon nap eh Whippersnapper ? :) Ok Get on ur Rockin Horse and ride off ...u wee Indian Wannabe :)...There's a Good Lad :)
     
  21. RorschachWJK

    RorschachWJK Registered User

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    Lay it off already. If you're as old as you say, you should be able to write like one too.

    Canada Cups & World Cups are biased tourneys, no matter how you twist the matter. Everything in them is geared to be smooth for team Canada. Olympics, starting from 1998 are not biased though.
     
  22. toastman344*

    toastman344* Guest

    Boucicaut :
    Au Contraire...The pre 1998 OG and the so called World Champs were far more biased...Ur rules, ur Ice...without our Best avail...some very creative ' Referee -ing ' shall we say + some obvious anti-Canuck IIHF bias going back for decades...

    Small Matter... U say Tomaeto...I say Tomahto...so what ? We dont live in a Perfect World...FACT IS...Pre 1990's the Canada Cup was the closest thing to a True Best On Best Tourney... imperfect or Not

    Boucicaut :
    In Case U Hadn't Noticed ...I did NOT fire the first shot across the Bow ...I WAS Provoked Was I Not?...My Earlier Post was called RIDICULOUS and CHILDISH ...As per the TRIKE Commentary...I didn't Hear U Complaining about that ?

    If a Swede Takes a Cheap Shot ...Can't a Canuck Fire Back ?...Or is that somehow...Anti-Euro ? :)

    Tell U What ...I'll Cheerfully Cease N Desist...IF...Others Will...Fair Enuf ?

    CHEERS :)
     
    Last edited by moderator : Mar 11, 2007
  23. RorschachWJK

    RorschachWJK Registered User

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    I wasn't claiming that Olympics prior to 1998 or World Championships should be considered best-on-best. Where are you pulling this stuff from?

    Regarding Canada/World Cups, just keep in mind that Canada only barely won several of them, despite the advantages they had. At least 1987 and 2004 come to mind immediately. Their track record in Olympics since 1998 hasn't been exactly dominating, especially when the games haven't been on North American soil. The next games are in Vancouver and, lo and behold, small rinks will be used. I guess success on the big Olympic surface hasn't been good enough...

    The refereeing argument seems to go both ways, just depends who you ask. Although I'm not one of the complainers, many Europeans haven't been exactly happy with some of the NHL referees in tourneys either. In the past the argument has generally been that they allow too much goonery.

    No, you didn't start things but you sure didn't help things either by answering two slightly out of line comments with a barrage of equally out of line stuff.
     
  24. toastman344*

    toastman344* Guest

     
  25. toastman344*

    toastman344* Guest

    Bourci-CAT:
    Well , being from a Clan that's Half Native...and having to stomach a 3 Kronor who deigns to call himself CrazyHorse, Then Hurl Insults...I DID TAKE OFFENCE ! It's just the Chris Simon in me I suppose :) Ur suprised that Canucks get Testy when it comes to Hockey/Religion eh? Where U Been KemoSabey ??? Livin UNDER A ROCK ??? :)

    B-Cat:
    Ur Ice ...Ur IIHF Rules...For the Most Part... and Yet ...Our Men have won 1 out of 3 Gold...AND ...Our Women Have Won 2 out of 3 Gold...So Tell Me ...Oh Lover/Keeper of all OG Shinny Stats...Whose Done Better ??? :)

    CHEERS
     

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