You can only keep 1

[thewave]

I am laughing at all the Mc vs Grabs stuff with complaints about money. You guys want cap floor team or something? We aint even close to the ceiling haha. Hey here honestly i have am idea, replace all those overpaid guys like 3m and up and play Marlies for the winning.

 

[613Leafer]

Gunner----Franson


Kostka----Fraser

Kamarov---Kulemin


McClement----Grabo


Brown,---Orr---McLaren (only 2 can stay)

You have to specifically think about what kind of roles their filling, what their salary is, and what they/the one theyre being compared to can get in return for a trade.

Gunner vs Franson - Phaneuf/Rielly/Gardiner should make up 3/4s of our PP longterm, and I prefer what Gunnar brings to the table when it comes to 5 on 5 / PK. Franson has also upped his trade value recently.

Fraser vs Kostka - Fraser brings a distinct physical presence. While Kostka has been pretty steady, longterm he's gonna get pushed down the depth chart, and I prefer what Fraser brings in a bottom pairing role compared to Kostka.

Komarov vs Kulemin - Tough choice. Kulemins a solid player. But I think with his declining offence, that Komarov brings something similar to the table, and can be a really solid agitator. I also think Kulemin still holds solid trade value, especially to Pittsburgh. I'd be after one of their good D prospects + a pick.

McClement vs Grabo - I've always though Grabo was a little overrated. Not quite good enough to be a #2 C on a Stanley Cup winning team. Kadri is also making him expendable in the longterm, and he's overpaid for a 3rd line role, not to mention his trade value is higher. McClement on the other hand is one of the best bottom 6 forwards we've had in years, definitely fills a solid role.

Brown/Orr/McClaren - I don't really care as much. I'll take the heavy weights, all are fairly easy to replace though.

 

[Erndog]

OK some head to head show downs here.

You can only keep 1 of each head to head show down.

Keep in mind contract status and future re sign value. Age.

Keep in mind what you could get for the other player on the open market in a trade.


Gunner----Franson


Kostka----Fraser

Kamarov---Kulemin


McClement----Grabo


Brown,---Orr---McLaren (only 2 can stay)

Franson
Fraser
Komarov
tough one
McLaren

That was easy save for the Mcclement/Grabbo one. Grabbo is certainly a better offensive player, but Mcclement is cheap, and I like his defensive/PK game. Plus Grabbo nets you more in a trade. But he's a better player. Tough call.

 

[thewave]

You have to specifically think about what kind of roles their filling, what their salary is, and what they/the one theyre being compared to can get in return for a trade.

Gunner vs Franson - Phaneuf/Rielly/Gardiner should make up 3/4s of our PP longterm, and I prefer what Gunnar brings to the table when it comes to 5 on 5 / PK. Franson has also upped his trade value recently.

Fraser vs Kostka - Fraser brings a distinct physical presence. While Kostka has been pretty steady, longterm he's gonna get pushed down the depth chart, and I prefer what Fraser brings in a bottom pairing role compared to Kostka.

Komarov vs Kulemin - Tough choice. Kulemins a solid player. But I think with his declining offence, that Komarov brings something similar to the table, and can be a really solid agitator. I also think Kulemin still holds solid trade value, especially to Pittsburgh. I'd be after one of their good D prospects + a pick.

McClement vs Grabo - I've always though Grabo was a little overrated. Not quite good enough to be a #2 C on a Stanley Cup winning team. Kadri is also making him expendable in the longterm, and he's overpaid for a 3rd line role, not to mention his trade value is higher. McClement on the other hand is one of the best bottom 6 forwards we've had in years, definitely fills a solid role.

Brown/Orr/McClaren - I don't really care as much. I'll take the heavy weights, all are fairly easy to replace though.

You do know that 5.5m Toronto bucks is like 4.7m Phoenix bucks what after tax rate and such. Toronto has to pay more for decent players period and we have a lot of cap space still so who cares are you in leafs accounting or personally paying these guys? This is not a who is in the best spirit of Herald Ballard contest, its about winning games and a good product on the ice.

 

[The Caveman]

Gunner----Franson

Franson has the best shot on he team. Gunnar is one of our more tradeable assets as well. Holzer, then Finn, can play stay at home once they get experience.

Kostka----Fraser

Fraser brings grit. Kotska brings not a lot.

Kamarov---Kulemin

Kule has becoem a checking winger more than anything. Kamo will be the same. And is a pest to boot. Kule should bring a good asset or draft pick back.

McClement----Grabo

Toughest one for me. Like them both. Grabo is a better all around player, but costs a lot.

Brown,---Orr---McLaren (only 2 can stay)

Beat em all up - at least if we lose no one screws with us.

 

[thewave]

Gunner----Franson

Franson has the best shot on he team. Gunnar is one of our more tradeable assets as well. Holzer, then Finn, can play stay at home once they get experience.

Kostka----Fraser

Fraser brings grit. Kotska brings not a lot.

Kamarov---Kulemin

Kule has becoem a checking winger more than anything. Kamo will be the same. And is a pest to boot. Kule should bring a good asset or draft pick back.

McClement----Grabo

Toughest one for me. Like them both. Grabo is a better all around player, but costs a lot.

Brown,---Orr---McLaren (only 2 can stay)

Beat em all up - at least if we lose no one screws with us.

Congrats you just converted the Marlies into the Leafs and saved lots of money. You win the cap floor award.

 

[ACC1224]

Congrats you just converted the Marlies into the Leafs and saved lots of money. You win the cap floor award.

How does that accomplish either of those?

Because a player earns more doesn't make them automatically better in a certain role.

 

[thewave]

How does that accomplish either of those?

Because a player earns more doesn't make them automatically better in a certain role.

Komarov over Kulemin
MC over Grabs
F over Gunner

Are you kidding me? Do I even need to spell this out? They just took out two 20+ goal scorers and the most stable D we have for lol role players?

 

[613Leafer]

You do know that 5.5m Toronto bucks is like 4.7m Phoenix bucks what after tax rate and such. Toronto has to pay more for decent players period and we have a lot of cap space still so who cares are you in leafs accounting or personally paying these guys? This is not a who is in the best spirit of Herald Ballard contest, its about winning games and a good product on the ice.

Yea, and Grabos not a good enough 2nd line Centre IMO to be a key piece on a winning team. Krejci is the worst 2nd line centre since the last lockout on the SC winners, and he's outscored Grabos career high in 3 of the previous 4 seasons while playing for a more defensively minded team.

 

[thewave]

Yea, and Grabos not a good enough 2nd line Centre IMO to be a key piece on a winning team. Krejci is the worst 2nd line centre since the last lockout on the SC winners, and he's outscored Grabos career high in 3 of the previous 4 seasons while playing for a more defensively minded team.

Please gather 2nd line c stats and post them. I unlike you track them and can tell you point production wise the past 2yrs Grabs has been in the top 30 OF ALL NHL C POINT PRODUCTION WISE.

 

[ACC1224]

Komarov over Kulemin
MC over Grabs
F over Gunner

Are you kidding me? Do I even need to spell this out? They just took out two 20+ goal scorers and the most stable D we have for lol role players?

If Grabovski was playing in an offensive role, I'd take him. As a checking line centre it's easily McClement regardless of the salary. IMO, McClement will have a longer career as a Leaf than Grabovski.

Komarov does pretty much everything better than Kulemin he just doesn't have the stats from 3 seasons ago to dine out on. Kulemin doesn't look like he'll ever score 10 goals again, let alone 20.

Gunnar and Franson are close. Franson is much better offensively while Gunnar is marginally better defensively. I don't really like either player that much so I take the offense.

 

[The Caveman]

Congrats you just converted the Marlies into the Leafs and saved lots of money. You win the cap floor award.

I did mention that the Grabo one was tough. I am looking at not only this year, but leaving space for good youngsters to develop. Can Gunnar be replaced? I think so and if not Holzer, then maybe a Blacker of Finn.

Also didn't mention that by trading a Kule and Gunnar, we can possibly get some good players in return. Fien to say we should trade Connoly, Liles, Komi.. but they are worthless trade pieces.

Salary had little to do with my decision, aside from Grabo vs MacL.

 

[Al14]

Why would anyone want to keep Kulemin over Komarov?

Kulemin has been clearly expressing his wish to be traded to Pittsburgh by his poor play offensively! He also has not showed any desire to lay on the body like Komarov. He is not really contributing like I think he should be.

I think, after hearing about his play in the KHL, that he does not want to be with the Leafs any more. He really wants to play with his best bud Malkin in Pittsburgh.

JMHO.

 

[Bomber0104]

Gunner----Franson


Kostka----Fraser

Kamarov---Kulemin


McClement----Grabo


Brown,---Orr---McLaren (only 2 can stay)

Easy peazy.

 

[Bomber0104]

Why would anyone want to keep Kulemin over Komarov?

Kulemin has been clearly expressing his wish to be traded to Pittsburgh by his poor play offensively! He also has not showed any desire to lay on the body like Komarov. He is not really contributing like I think he should be.

I think, after hearing about his play in the KHL, that he does not want to be with the Leafs any more. He really wants to play with his best bud Malkin in Pittsburgh.

JMHO.

He's one of our only forwards that can play defensive hockey (cycling, forechecking, etc) and is an exceptional penalty killer.

Unfortunately him and Grabo are tied at the hip and when you are playing on a line with a guy like him, you're basically going to have to make your own chances offensively because Grabo is a terrible playmaker, a puck hog, and weak on the puck/man.

 

[Bedards Dad]

Gunner----Franson


Kostka----Fraser

Kamarov---Kulemin


McClement----Grabo


Brown,---Orr---McLaren (only 2 can stay)

I a taking contracts into consideration(Kamarov over Kuli). It's also tough to not choose Brown, but he just doesn't seem to have it this year.

 

[613Leafer]

Please gather 2nd line c stats and post them. I unlike you track them and can tell you point production wise the past 2yrs Grabs has been in the top 30 OF ALL NHL C POINT PRODUCTION WISE.

2nd line Centres from recent SC winners

M. Richards: 4 of his previous 5 seasons were above Grabos career high for points.
D. Krejci: 3 of his previous 4 seasons were above Grabos career high for points
P. Sharp: Hawks won in 2010. That year he had higher than Grabos career high, and has since shown that to be a consistent part of his game.
Malkin: Don't have to say anything
Zetterberg: Don't have to say anything
Getzlaf: To be fair, he wasn't the same Getzlaf he is right now. That was his breakout year, but he still matched Grabos career high while also playing a punishing power forward game, then went on to show his increasing abilities in the playoffs with 17 pts in 21 games, and was higher than PPG the following season
Brind'Amour: Don't have to say anything

Offensively, they've ALL shown more than Grabo has, by either just a little bit (Krejci) or a lot (Malkin, Zetterberg, etc). Most of them also bring better intangibles, either being better defensively, being more physical, or both (though Grabo has improved a LOT defensively the last few years).

I, unlike you, can remove the blue-tinted glasses, look at who has filled a certain role on the SC Winners (which is what we have to compare ourselves to, unless your goal is to simply be slightly better than average by using "average" as the benchmark for comparison), and see who on the team has performed equal to or greater than the average player in that position for a SC Winning team, and who has performed lower than that. Grabo is an example of a guy who has performed at a lower level than the guys that filled his role on SC Winning teams.

 

[BonMorrison]

Gunnarsson - Franson
Real tough one for me as Gunnar is one of my favorites. Franson has too much offensive upside to be ignored though and his defensive game has been steadily improving. Gunnarsson was quietly our best d-man last year but with all the kids improving and graduating, his skillset is the most replaceable.

Kostka - Fraser
Easy pick for me here. Kostka's been a nice story and is a steady player but the way Fraser makes an impact out there while only being a #6 defenseman is too big to be ignored.

Komarov - Kulemin
Another tough one. Love Trollmarov's tenacity and what he brings but Kulemin is bigger, faster, stronger defensively and is more offensive (even if he is a black hole).

McClement - Grabovski
Until we start having cap trouble, I see no issue in his contract for the time being. If Kadri actually usurps the #2 role, why not have the offensive depth to have someone like Grabo on the 3rd line? I love McClement, he's improved our PK drastically so this was a hard one - much harder than I thought.

Brown - Orr - McClaren
Never got the lovefest for Brown.

 

[Terrence]

Franson
Fraser
Kulemin
Grabo
McLaren, Orr

 

[ACC1224]

Gunnarsson - Franson
Real tough one for me as Gunnar is one of my favorites. Franson has too much offensive upside to be ignored though and his defensive game has been steadily improving. Gunnarsson was quietly our best d-man last year but with all the kids improving and graduating, his skillset is the most replaceable.

Kostka - Fraser
Easy pick for me here. Kostka's been a nice story and is a steady player but the way Fraser makes an impact out there while only being a #6 defenseman is too big to be ignored.

Komarov - Kulemin
Another tough one. Love Trollmarov's tenacity and what he brings but Kulemin is bigger, faster, stronger defensively and is more offensive (even if he is a black hole).

McClement - Grabovski
Until we start having cap trouble, I see no issue in his contract for the time being. If Kadri actually usurps the #2 role, why not have the offensive depth to have someone like Grabo on the 3rd line? I love McClement, he's improved our PK drastically so this was a hard one - much harder than I thought.

Brown - Orr - McClaren
Never got the lovefest for Brown.

Is Kulemin really any of those over Komarov?

I guess he may be marginally bigger but Komarov plays bigger. No way he's faster, Komarov may be the best skater on the team.

 

[Bomber0104]

Is Kulemin really any of those over Komarov?

I guess he may be marginally bigger but Komarov plays bigger. No way he's faster, Komarov may be the best skater on the team.

Nope. Youre wrong. Kulemin wins the fastest skater award every year...beating guys like Kessel.

He's way stronger, faster, and bigger than Komarov.

 

[leburn98]

OK some head to head show downs here.

You can only keep 1 of each head to head show down.

Keep in mind contract status and future re sign value. Age.

Keep in mind what you could get for the other player on the open market in a trade.


Gunner----Franson: I feel that Franson adds more to the PP then Gunner, although you could make the argument that Franson's skill set could be replaced by other options in the Leafs system with Gardiner and Reilly. Still even looking into the future I feel that Franson holds more value for the Leafs now and the future.

Kostka----Fraser: I like what Kostka has done, but Fraser has been absolutely rock solid. He's not flashy but is dependable and gets the job done.

Kamarov---Kulemin: While a tough one, I feel that Komarov's pesky nature helps the Leafs more than many realize. I also feel that he would fit right in on the shutdown line. Kulemin may have more trade value right now though.

McClement----Grabo: This one is strictly a matter of cap space. With Kadri finally given a chance and Bozak being the top center for the moment I really don't see a need to keep Grabo if a decision needed to be made. Don't get me wrong, I love Grabo, but when push comes to shove, I feel we have enough in the Leafs system to replace him. McClement would be more suited in the shutdown role and his ability on the PK should not be overlooked.

Brown,---Orr---McLaren (only 2 can stay): I feel Orr and McLaren are great at what they do. They lack skill sure, but there is no denying that they have helped change the look of this team. While Brown is feisty and I consider him easily the most skilled of the three, Orr/McLaren suit our needs more for the 4th line.

 

[thepatient]

Gunner----Franson
I love the Franson/Fraser pairing, no glaring mistakes plus Franson on the PP.

Kostka----Fraser
Not sold on Kostka, Fraser brings mean streak with him.

Kamarov---Kulemin
This one is tough but went with Kulemin. Both can fill in the third line no problem but Kulemin has more upside, when he is on he can play second line.

McClement----Grabo

I like Grabo, but with Kadri showing he belongs one of Bozak, Grabo, Kadri have to go. Based on contract, and what a return on a trade would be I'd trade Grabo. Kadri can slot into the second line (offense) and Bozak take the third (shutdown). McClement would be good on the 4th line and can move up in case of injuries.

Brown,---Orr---McLaren (only 2 can stay)
Ideally only one of McLaren or Orr would be in the lineup and the other be a scratch. McLaren brings more size to the lineup than Brown

 

[Mystifo]

The amount of Franson love in this thread is astounding I could of swore the majority had him written off...

Gunner (Something we sorely lack when he is 100% healthy. I like Franson but we have offensive D man in our system but very few Shutdown.)

Fraser (Again we have guys like Kostka and I kind of like Fraser.)

Kulemin (Our best Defensive forward I love Komarov but Kulemin does everything right.)

McClement (Workhorse, Also emergence of Kadri has really hindered Grabovski.)

Brown, McLaren (With McLaren Fraser on the team Orr is kind of not needed. Brown can play a decent shift and the PK something Orr can't a lot of the time.)

 

[Al14]

Nope. Youre wrong. Kulemin wins the fastest skater award every year...beating guys like Kessel.

He's way stronger, faster, and bigger than Komarov.

He sure doesn't play like it!