TSN: Yost: The Jets are this season’s biggest disappointment

MrBoJangelz71

Registered User
Jan 14, 2014
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I agree Guerzy. I was pretty optimistic that once we got through the tough part of the schedule and (almost) everyone back from injury, the team would start rumbling down the runway and take off. It didn't though.

I as well. Said if we could get to January 5 games below .500, with OTL included, we would have a strong second half, with a favorable schedule and healthy players.

We started the year exactly 5 games below, but failed to put a run together.
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
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The Jets not making the playoffs is not a surprise. Injuries and schedule are legitimate excuses. However, injuries and schedule do not account for poor defensive play, goaltending, poor power play, poor penalty killing, lack of discipline, concerns of the poor seasons of Buff and Enstrom, faceoffs, player usage, team toughness and general style of play. Based on watching Chevy and Maurice operate, there is little optimism these areas will ever be corrected as many of the problems are same year after year and never been addressed. The disappointment is not so much in their record this year but more in the concern that Chevy and Maurice are not capable of getting this team to the next level.

Lots of reasons other than injuries, but injuries do affect the special teams. Watching Stuart and Melchiori killing penalties should be all that it takes to demonstrate that.

But I think the larger issue is that Maurice doesn't play deploy the right players correctly on the special teams. Even when he had an option he still played Stuart on the PK, despite Stu being horrendous at it. Case in point - why is Stu killing a 4-on-3 in OT vs. Nashville? Mind-numbingly idiotic, unless he's trying to tank.
 

Guerzy

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Jan 16, 2005
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Injuries have been an issue for this team this season, I am not trying to downplay that. I am just saying in my opinion, since at least December 1st, injuries are not an excuse in my opinion as something that is a cause for our poor season. They have been sporadic and to bottom six players for the most part and at different times, and I think we have enough depth to have gotten through what we sustained.

So I still bring myself to look at Maurice (coaching) and poor goaltending as our big issues.

Problems this season -

Goaltending (Chevy)
Maurice (Coaching)
...
then..
Injuries


That's just the way I look at it.
 
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Flair Hay

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Overall I thought the article was good and I have been one of the Chevy/Maurice supporters around here and try to be positive. Although I agree with those that point out our serious serious injury trouble cannot be ignored, on the other hand I can't ignore the fact that we have not really been any better since we got mostly healthy.

It's true that we've never had a fully healthy D-corps given that Myers went down around the time Trouba came back. But on the whole, the issues (and regression) pointed out by Yost remain valid criticisms.

A good goalie can cover a multitude of sins, and poor goaltending can highlight or exacerbate them. I think that an upgrade in net is key and I've been saying all season I think we're a goalie and some bottom 6/bottom pairing D away from having something real special here. Plus maybe coaching. I like Maurice but the team's regression and disorganized play this season has really shaken my confidence.

I also think Yost's point that Winnipeg's disappointing play has gone largely under the radar and I think that it is worthy of being pointed out a bit more. I don't mind management feeling some more heat. I'm not looking to run them out of town on a rail, but a little pressure wouldn't hurt IMO.

I'd echo thsee sentiments
 

Ducky10

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Nov 14, 2014
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I as well. Said if we could get to January 5 games below .500, with OTL included, we would have a strong second half, with a favorable schedule and healthy players.

We started the year exactly 5 games below, but failed to put a run together.

This team hasn't put a significant run together in over two years.
 

cbcwpg

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May 18, 2010
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I fully agree there were some significant oversights in this article, with the injury and schedule. But I would generally agree the Jets have disappointed this season. As others have mentioned, disappointment is relative to expectation. But I expected more. I gave the Jets a pass during the crazy schedule at the beginning of the year. But wanted more of a bounce-back once the schedule settled down.

So the article was a bit of a hack job (though some legit points as well). But I like that this article was written.

The more TNSE gets hammered in the spotlight for the deficiencies in our roster, the more pressure there will be to fix them. I want both Maurice and Chevy on the hot seat to produce for next year. It's time.

It's not the end of the world to have a disappointing season with a young team. What matters is what you do about it.

Yes. Even though some points might have been off, there is no way an article like this was going to be written by any of the regulars that cover the Jets. I prefer more accuracy or at least don't skip things like injuries, but the more outside Winnipeg articles the better.
 

Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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A tale of two (disappointing) teams...

Winnipeg Jets

PP% + PK%

2014/15 - 99.3
2015/16 - 93.2
2016/17 - 93.7

Dallas Stars

PP% + PK%

2014/15 - 100.0
2015/16 - 104.4
2016/17 - 91.9 :)amazed:)
 

garret9

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Statistically perhaps the most disappointing but from an expected results perspective it's hard to agree since very few expected the Jets to be a playoff team.

It's hard to believe the Jets are having a more disappointing season overall than Dallas or Colorado.

I prefer having my disappointment relative to what should be expected based on on-ice performance and evidence rather than what others feel should be expected.
 

CaptainChef

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Jan 5, 2014
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Lots of reasons other than injuries, but injuries do affect the special teams. Watching Stuart and Melchiori killing penalties should be all that it takes to demonstrate that.

But I think the larger issue is that Maurice doesn't play deploy the right players correctly on the special teams. Even when he had an option he still played Stuart on the PK, despite Stu being horrendous at it. Case in point - why is Stu killing a 4-on-3 in OT vs. Nashville? Mind-numbingly idiotic, unless he's trying to tank.

Indeed merely HAVING Stuart still killing penalties (generally while Morrissey sits on the bench) attests to the greatest deficiency in our lineup .... a coach who has no clue regarding PP & PK deployment. It could be most easily construed as tanking but we know coaches are never involved in that (and he's been doing it all season whenever Stu is in the line-up), so yes, we have to just call it mind-numbing idiotic indeed.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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I prefer having my disappointment relative to what should be expected based on on-ice performance and evidence rather than what others feel should be expected.

Yes that's fine for you but it's not the only way to look at things.

If our team had been projected to perhaps contend for the Stanley Cup before the season started (like the Dallas Stars were) I would be much more disappointed than I am in finishing 24th in the league vs 18th (I thought we would just miss the playoffs)
 

Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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Injuries have been an issue for this team this season, I am not trying to downplay that. I am just saying in my opinion, since at least December 1st, injuries are not an excuse in my opinion as something that is a cause for our poor season. They have been sporadic and to bottom six players for the most part and at different times, and I think we have enough depth to have gotten through what we sustained.

So I still bring myself to look at Maurice (coaching) and poor goaltending for not being able to address goaltending.

Problems this season -

Goaltending (Chevy)
Maurice (Coaching)
...
then..
Injuries


That's just the way I look at it.

I think goaltending, special teams, and sub-par seasons by key defensemen have been the biggest detriments, but it's hard to know whether injuries have a lingering effect. It takes a while for injured players to regain their effectiveness. Little and Perreault took some time to get back to top form. Also, I think it has a cumulative toll on the remaining top players, since they get over-used to compensate. Also, I think an overall malaise might set in, whereby the team loses its zeal.

Dallas has had the same experience. They never pulled it together even after the main spate of injuries eased up. They were sort of locked into a downward spiral, for some reason.

As for the Jets, my main concern (which I have expressed repeatedly) is whether Maurice will figure out how to coach a team that has a very different mix of players than he had 2 seasons ago. Can he adapt to coach more highly skilled players who aren't suited for a low-event and linear game? So far, it seems that they can score, but he hasn't been able to coax a consistent defensive game out of them. Maybe that is partly inexperience. Or maybe the issue is complicated by the poor performances from Buff and Enstrom.

It's a bit complex.

The obvious solutions from a roster stand-point is: 1) better goaltending; 2) another top-4 D.

The jury is out on whether Maurice can coach this sort of team effectively. I won't be surprised if they turn it around next year, but also won't be surprised if they continue to struggle and decide that they need to change coaches at some point in the next season or two.
 

Tom ServoMST3K

In search of a Steinbach Hero
Nov 2, 2010
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What's your excuse?
We've been functionally out of it for a very long time. I'm very disappointed in the season, especially watching Scheif and Laine and Ehlers play this year, which has been awesome.

I can't compare to Dallas, but saying

"No the Jets aren't the most disappointing, they're the second most disappointing"

isn't doing much to convince me we're on the right track :laugh:
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
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Indeed merely HAVING Stuart still killing penalties (generally while Morrissey sits on the bench) attests to the greatest deficiency in our lineup .... a coach who has no clue regarding PP & PK deployment. It could be most easily construed as tanking but we know coaches are never involved in that (and he's been doing it all season whenever Stu is in the line-up), so yes, we have to just call it mind-numbing idiotic indeed.

It isn't a new feature with Maurice. He has consistently played Stuart in that role, with predictable results. I was encouraged at the beginning of the season when Stuart was banished to the PB. I thought maybe Maurice had turned over a new leaf. But then you see how he's used Chiarot, and now Stuart, and it gives one pause.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Letang is better than ENstrom and Myers combined. Maata is better than Myers, Sheary plays in their top 6. What is with your nonsense about cap hit? Who ****ing cares about cap hit. 13 games without the 2 best centers in the world is pretty significant.

That's a misstatement. It was 13 games without 1 or the other, not 13 games missing both. We've missed 23 games without Little. Little is not Crosby or Malkin but he means almost as much to us as they do to the Pens. They've had a combined 125 games WITH the 2 best centres in the world.

Edit: Not saying it was a deliberate misstatement, just to clarify. :)

Cap hit is just a rough way of accounting for the quality of players missed. Generally better players get paid more. It is pretty rough.

I agree with not making too much of our injuries but they have been exceptional and it is misleading to ignore them entirely too. In recent games we have been missing 3 of our 5 top 4 D. So we have both Melchiori and Stuart in the lineup. That has got to be pretty significant.
 
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Rheged

JMFT
Feb 19, 2010
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Just for the record, though I'm sure many know/remember, Yost was on the radio here early in the season talking about how he was surprised that expectations for the Jets weren't higher. The team may be young but in the CAP era the smart teams make hay while they have contributors on ELC's.
 

Smelling Salt

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Mar 8, 2006
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A tale of two (disappointing) teams...

Winnipeg Jets

PP% + PK%

2014/15 - 99.3
2015/16 - 93.2
2016/17 - 93.7

Dallas Stars

PP% + PK%

2014/15 - 100.0
2015/16 - 104.4
2016/17 - 91.9 :)amazed:)

Yep, the Stars PK has been extremely bad this season. As in historically bad. Worst in the NHL going back 20 years.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Yost is right though.

"They don’t skate very well at 5-on-5, they can’t get a save, their power play can’t bail them out, and many of the penalties they do take will likely end up in goals against."

Injuries or not, those have been the issues this year.

Agree except that I don't understand what he meant by the bolded. Generally speaking they are a good skating team, very good IMO. They may play a dumb game but poor skating is not one of the issues as far as I can see.
 

Guerzy

I'm a fricken baby
Jan 16, 2005
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Agree except that I don't understand what he meant by the bolded. Generally speaking they are a good skating team, very good IMO. They may play a dumb game but poor skating is not one of the issues as far as I can see.



I think he just means in general we haven't been a very efficient 5on5 team this year, not "skate" as in "movement on the ice".
 

hurricanedave

Registered User
Apr 19, 2012
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No. They also never predicted close to 40 goals from our 18 yo, Scheifele better than a ppg, Ehlers over 60pts, Trouba playing like a bona fide #1. We have reality to gauge not predictions without results.

What does this even mean? Disappointment is the judgement on whether results met expectations/predictions.

I am so confused by your statement, if Yost or TSN never predicted those performances then how can they factor them into a disappointment?

Pre-season: I expect team X will not make the playoffs due to the limitations of Y components.
Post-season: Team X did not make playoffs, Y components under performed as expected but Z components exceeded expectations.
Result: I am disappointed because my predictions on how team X will came to pass due to Y, yet Z exceeded expectations.

If Yost and TSN never predicted the Jets to make the playoffs then that's not disappointment.
 

garret9

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Mar 31, 2012
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Yes that's fine for you but it's not the only way to look at things.

If our team had been projected to perhaps contend for the Stanley Cup before the season started (like the Dallas Stars were) I would be much more disappointed than I am in finishing 24th in the league vs 18th (I thought we would just miss the playoffs)

I view it that way because evidence suggest the other way is inferior.
 

KidShowtime

Pardy Dangles
Dec 3, 2014
35
1
Who is Travis Yost again?

With expertise and foresight like this, he should be coaching a Stanley Cup winning team.. no?
 

Mortimer Snerd

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It's a good article. Some will try to discredit the article in it's entirety by saying something like 'But Dallas blah blah blah', and I might agree in the one case of Dallas that they might be a bigger disappointment. But whether the biggest or second biggest disappointment, we are a huge disappointment again this year. And the really disappointing thing is that it is the same issues that keep coming up year after year - goaltending and LHD. This year coaching and man on man defensive schema have been brought into the picture and certainly worth scrutiny as well.

The injury/schedule card was hugely overplayed here, and continues to be. I pointed out our month by month record about a week ago. We are consistently not very good. With injuries and without. With 'the toughest schedule in the history of the NHL' and without. With the joint combination of the 'toughest schedule PLUS injuries', and without either. And someone put our pre and post injury record up here and the result is the same. We are consistently not very good. So that dog simply doesn't hunt. Of course there is an in game impact, but in the case of the Jets and our record not much of one because we are consistently not very good - look at our record.

I agree with the comment about the inferiority complex. I see it here all the time in these boards. There is no expectation or requirement of success. We are always explaining away why it's ok that we are really bad again. The current one is 'young'. So it's just fine that our GM hadn't addressed goaltending or LHD because 'blah blah blah we are going young', or 'blah blah blah it would cost some money' or other. Just do something to at least try to address the problem. Too many times the point starts with something like 'but we are young', and then that is used to justify our suckedness. Earlier in the year it was the injuries, even when we played and lost to teams that were as bad or worse off than us on the injury front. Or Maurice claiming that Buf is like a rookie on D because he played forward so he is still learning so it is ok for him to suck. It's time that this organization from top to bottom including fans start to expect better things and be vocal about it. If not, don't expect much from another summer of Chevy.

I think the thing that will motivate TNSE to do something this summer is that the hockey world has woken up a bit to what is going on in Winnipeg. WE are getting justifiable bad press for team performance. Maybe Laine is bringing more attention, or maybe the hockey world is starting to impose timeline onto the whole draft and develop and not much else thing that Chevy has going. We have some great pieces. So there are a number of pundits and analysts who are asking questions about WTF Winnipeg? It's about time. Local media has been throwing softballs for too long. Not that TNSE reads HFboards, but even here Chevy could source great reasons, that I am sure he couldn't even think of, for any stupid thing that he has done or anything action that he has chosen not to do - like find a keeper that doesn't suck.

We have a pretty good lineup. We have the potential to be a much better team, as soon as next season. It's time to scrutinize. It's time to welcome any criticism that might apply some pressure to TNSE. I feel like it is the only way to get Chevy to actually try something this summer. He didn't last year and certain problems were obvious. I don't care if something doesn't work out (unless it is absolutely stupid and idiotic), but at least try. The system, the use of players, the ongoing goaltending and LHD issue. It's time to welcome the different opinions and analysis of our under performing Jets. Something needs to be done.

Not to disagree with your whole post but I think you are understating injuries and schedule. There has never been a month in this season when we were not hard hit by injuries. Since that opening 60 days of an epic tough schedule there has never been the chance to recover, even the bye week, when it finally came was not enough for the league to catch up to us in games played. We are still tied for the most games played and would have that to ourselves if not for the snow day.

I think the ways in which we are disappointing are not related to those excuses. Those things directly affect our record and while I wish we were at least close to a play-off fight it is not our record itself that is the disappointment. It is that we still have well below standard goaltending, penalty differential and special team performance. It seems like we have had those problems forever and they have nothing to do with injuries or schedule.

We could add systems and breakdowns in the D zone but they may relate to the youth of the team and we have discussed enough excuses already.

The important thing is the bolded IMO. The time for adjusting what we inherited is over. It is time to demand better. It is time that Chevy, Maurice, Buff and everyone else became accountable.

This is a business. The business is sport. The sport is about competition. So compete, damnit! Start now. Not tomorrow, not next year or next decade. Now.
 

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