GDT: WSHCAR

[raynman]

Holy ****, check out how much bigger Staal's thighs are as compared to Wallmark's and Aho's.

You can see why Brindy loves Staal in more ways than one

THEM DRUMSTICKS

Thick thighs save lives

 

[spockBokk]

If Fleury gets a mean streak, there’s your Edmundson replacement for less than half of what it would take to re-up Edmundson. I like RBA putting Gardiner with Pesce last night. If Gardiner is going to work out in CAR, I think that’s where he needs to play.

What they end up doing with TVR and Edmundson before the deadline I think will be an interesting storyline to follow. IF, Gardiner can hold his own with Pesce( and that’s the biggest IF), and if Fleury can solidify that 3rd pair spot opposite TVR, you have an interesting decision to make with Edmundson.

Eddy has been awful lately in my estimation. I kind of like the idea of him being the piece or the main piece in an upgrade at F at the deadline. Seems just like a braintrust type move. Although they really seem to also value team chemistry so maybe they don’t do anything and bank on Williams as the addition. They really are in a great place either way.

And on a side note-Forsling really is picking up his play in Charlotte lately. I think he’d more than be a capable #7 if they move on from Edmundson/TVR or Fleury, just another option.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

If Fleury gets a mean streak, there’s your Edmundson replacement for less than half of what it would take to re-up Edmundson. I like RBA putting Gardiner with Pesce last night. If Gardiner is going to work out in CAR, I think that’s where he needs to play.

What they end up doing with TVR and Edmundson before the deadline I think will be an interesting storyline to follow. IF, Gardiner can hold his own with Pesce( and that’s the biggest IF), and if Fleury can solidify that 3rd pair spot opposite TVR, you have an interesting decision to make with Edmundson.

Eddy has been awful lately in my estimation. I kind of like the idea of him being the piece or the main piece in an upgrade at F at the deadline. Seems just like a braintrust type move. Although they really seem to also value team chemistry so maybe they don’t do anything and bank on Williams as the addition. They really are in a great place either way.

And on a side note-Forsling really is picking up his play in Charlotte lately. I think he’d more than be a capable #7 if they move on from Edmundson/TVR or Fleury, just another option.

Despite Eddy's mini-slump at this moment in time, he's overall having a career-best season. This may be the time to sell high. Fleury, IMO, is finally playing his way into the NHL, and using Eddy as a chip for a Ferland-like forward would be an interesting piece of work. I would personally call up Ray Shero and see if he's willing to part with either Miles Wood or Nikita Gusev if his team and Eddy can agree to an extension. St. Louis and New Jersey allegedly had a deal done for Edmundson if the Faulk sign-and-trade fell through.

 

[Lempo]

martinook and foegele just sweep pucks to the front of the net trusting the other will be there to get a greasy one.

"You wanna get pizza, you go to the pizza place. You wanna get goals, you go to the goal."

- Ville Nieminen

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Edmundson isn't much of a chip. I keep coming back to Ian Cole as a comp and he was dealt for a 3rd and a throwaway prospect 2 years ago in a similar spot. Maybe you get lucky and a team gets really desperate for a guy that is ideally on a bottom-pairing, but I doubt it. A team wanting to re-sign Edmundson before seeing how he fits with their group or caring enough about a 3rd round pick to make an extension part of the deal seems suspect to me; Jensen was unique in that he was a RHD is an incredibly weak RHD market.

I think they'll just end up keeping him as a depth piece, unless the budget/cap space is really needed elsewhere. It's one thing to forgo a TDL return on Faulk or Skinner. It's another to forgo it on Ferland (given his play at the time in that deep marketplace) or Edmundson.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Edmundson isn't much of a chip. I keep coming back to Ian Cole as a comp and he was dealt for a 3rd and a throwaway prospect 2 years ago in a similar spot. Maybe you get lucky and a team gets really desperate for a guy that is ideally on a bottom-pairing, but I doubt it. A team wanting to re-sign Edmundson before seeing how he fits with their group or caring enough about a 3rd round pick to make an extension part of the deal seems suspect to me; Jensen was unique in that he was a RHD is an incredibly weak RHD market.

I think they'll just end up keeping him as a depth piece, unless the budget/cap space is really needed elsewhere. It's one thing to forgo a TDL return on Faulk or Skinner. It's another to forgo it on Ferland (given his play at the time in that deep marketplace) or Edmundson.

One thing to note is that though the UFA crop on defensemen this year is quite strong, it is almost entirely RHD. The LHD market is really, really weak this offseason if you exclude Torey Krug, who IMO will be re-signed by Boston. After that, it's really only Jake Muzzin, T.J. Brodie, Joel Edmundson, and Erik Gustafsson, followed by a bunch of dreck, and there's several teams RN with a pressing need for LHD, most notably Florida, Vegas, Winnipeg, and New Jersey. Eddy is the youngest player in that entire crop, which IMO has its own appeal when it comes to UFA.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The Devils trading a high pick for Edmundson would be ridiculous for them to do under the circumstances. The 3 Top 4 D Vegas has (Schmidt, Theodore, McNabb) are all LHD; a RHD fits better there.

I'm not as familiar with Florida or Winnipeg, but there are other short-term alternatives in the market place. Hainsey, Dillon, Hutton and Greene could come in and a fill a flex role.

I just don't see what's special about him that will motivate a team to come in and pay a plus price for him as a rental or for the privilege of giving him a multi-year contract.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

The Devils trading a high pick for Edmundson would be ridiculous for them to do under the circumstances. The 3 Top 4 D Vegas has (Schmidt, Theodore, McNabb) are all LHD; a RHD fits better there.

I'm not as familiar with Florida or Winnipeg, but there are other short-term alternatives in the market place. Hainsey, Dillon, Hutton and Greene could come in and a fill a flex role.

I just don't see what's special about him that will motivate a team to come in and pay a plus price for him as a rental or for the privilege of giving him a multi-year contract.

Schmidt prefers to play his off-side, a la TJ Brodie, so he effectively acts as a "right side" guy, but yes, Vegas could use a true RHD. I list Vegas as a potential partner because they really lack depth, period, in their defensive corps. I don't expect the Devils to offer a draft pick for obvious reasons (they need as many picks as possible because they are a bad hockey club); I was thinking, instead, of guys like Miles Wood or Nikita Gusev, more likely the former. I'm not exactly talking about the moon and the stars, but rather potentially using Eddy, who's played well this year and is IMO at peak value, to swing on either buy-low guys who can help right now (Wood) or interesting prospects that were drafted over the past couple of drafts (Examples include Pavel Dorofeyev in Vegas, Vladislav Kolyachonok in Florida, and Declan Chisholm in Winnipeg).

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Gusev or even Wood could net them a draft pick. The Devils would basically be trading a high pick for an impending UFA or an extended Edmundson. Neither is logical when they could keep the pick (trade the player) and sign Edmundson, or some other short-term solution, as a UFA.

I recognize this FO is a creative one, but the market has to cooperate.

 

[MinJaBen]

I recognize this FO is a creative one, but the market has to cooperate.

Sure, but I wouldn’t have thought there was a market for Darling that brought back a serviceable backup, and yet here we are.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

There really wasn't a market for Darling. He was traded for a player that was about to get bought out. The Panthers got a structure that suited their needs better. That was an entirely logical thing for them to do.

If you're searching for a trade that didn't make sense on paper, it's Faulk to St. Louis. A team with two Top 4 RHD making a long-term commitment to another Top 4 RHD was dubious. Faulk, interestingly, is now playing the left side as the Blues attempt to make that set-up work.

I'll never say never about anything, but New Jersey trading for Edmundson would be incredibly surprising and worthy of the criticism it would receive.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

There really wasn't a market for Darling. He was traded for a player that was about to get bought out. The Panthers got a structure that suited their needs better. That was an entirely logical thing for them to do.

If you're searching for a trade that didn't make sense on paper, it's Faulk to St. Louis. A team with two Top 4 RHD making a long-term commitment to another Top 4 RHD was dubious. Faulk, interestingly, is now playing the left side as the Blues attempt to make that set-up work.

I'll never say never about anything, but New Jersey trading for Edmundson would be incredibly surprising and worthy of the criticism it would receive.

I think the Faulk to St. Louis trade makes a boatload of sense, actually, not for this season but for NEXT season. I think that St. Louis has decided to own-rental Pietrangelo and will not re-sign him next offseason. In Armstrong's eyes, I personally think that he believes that Parayko is essentially ready to take over the reigns of the captaincy and the #1 RHD spot. If this is the case, I think bringing in Faulk for the same AAV as Pietrangelo is currently getting and letting someone else grossly overpay Pietrangelo for the back-half of his career is brilliant, because it would give Armstrong much-needed cap space to invest in depth instead of rushing in ELCs and said rookies and youngsters playing like hot baby vomit.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Thick thighs save lives

Sounds like... GINA CARANO IN MANDALORIAN. WHAT CAN I SAY, I ADORE ATHLETICITY.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

"You wanna get pizza, you go to the pizza place. You wanna get goals, you go to the goal."

- Ville Nieminen

YOU WANT VENGEANCE YOU GO TO THE SHED.

 

[Svechhammer]

McLovin is the kind of guy who will have a few developmental years of shaky inconsistent play before he puts it all together and becomes an absolute beast int he league. He has spurts here and there where he looks like the kind of guy who can be a point per game player in this league, and then has spurts where he just vanishes. Would not be shocked if, within 5 years he's a consistent top half of the league 2nd line winger who could play first line minutes on a lesser team. We just have to give him time to get there.

 

[bleedgreen]

As far as our ufa d, if we’re a playoff team I don’t see how we trade either one unless a useful playoff piece is coming back. That’s desperately needed depth, when we haven’t called up anyone from Charlotte this season.

The team we’re trading them to is looking to add a 7th dman. Because they think they need one, just like we do.

Unless we call up Bean or Forsling and find them to be ready to go for a playoff run..

 

[My Special Purpose]

There really wasn't a market for Darling. He was traded for a player that was about to get bought out. The Panthers got a structure that suited their needs better. That was an entirely logical thing for them to do.

If you're searching for a trade that didn't make sense on paper, it's Faulk to St. Louis. A team with two Top 4 RHD making a long-term commitment to another Top 4 RHD was dubious. Faulk, interestingly, is now playing the left side as the Blues attempt to make that set-up work.

I'll never say never about anything, but New Jersey trading for Edmundson would be incredibly surprising and worthy of the criticism it would receive.

But somebody had to have the idea and make the phone call. We can analyze this trade "after the fact" and say it made sense for both sides, but somebody with one of the front offices had to see what was going on and find a way to capitalize on it in a sea of 31 teams and 2,000+ players under contract or on reserve lists. And we're not talking about first-line centers here. We're talking about terribad backup goalies. Somebody had to be absolutely on the ball to come up with this idea.

I'd like to think it was somebody from our side, but it may not have been. Like you said, FLA was looking for a more standard contract to buy out. Maybe they targeted Darling. Who knows.

But this is what we're talking about when we talk about creativity. There's almost always a way. Previous regimes here, and others around the league, preferred to toss their hands up and make excuses, but this one prefers to find a way. That's why I worry very little about the "market cooperating." With 30 trade partners and almost infinite combinations, if this group wants something, they will find a way. And I love them for it.

McLovin is the kind of guy who will have a few developmental years of shaky inconsistent play before he puts it all together and becomes an absolute beast int he league. He has spurts here and there where he looks like the kind of guy who can be a point per game player in this league, and then has spurts where he just vanishes. Would not be shocked if, within 5 years he's a consistent top half of the league 2nd line winger who could play first line minutes on a lesser team. We just have to give him time to get there.

I dunno. I kinda think Foegele is what he is and we should just adjust expectations accordingly and enjoy him. His hands aren't getting any better. He's not getting faster. He's an elite forechecker, plus penalty killer and a quality shift disturber. His points are going to fluctuate based on his usage and puck luck more than his talent, but his contribution to the bottom line is always going to be about the same. He's not going to be a Tkachuk (any of them) or a Marchand no matter how much time we give him.

He ranks No. 71 at RW in Corsica Hockey's current rating system and I think that's about where we can expect him for the next 5-6 seasons.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I mean Foegele’s on pace for 40 points so the notion that he would get significantly better is fun but man that’s already a real player in the league.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

But somebody had to have the idea and make the phone call. We can analyze this trade "after the fact" and say it made sense for both sides, but somebody with one of the front offices had to see what was going on and find a way to capitalize on it in a sea of 31 teams and 2,000+ players under contract or on reserve lists. And we're not talking about first-line centers here. We're talking about terribad backup goalies. Somebody had to be absolutely on the ball to come up with this idea.

I'd like to think it was somebody from our side, but it may not have been. Like you said, FLA was looking for a more standard contract to buy out. Maybe they targeted Darling. Who knows.

But this is what we're talking about when we talk about creativity. There's almost always a way. Previous regimes here, and others around the league, preferred to toss their hands up and make excuses, but this one prefers to find a way. That's why I worry very little about the "market cooperating." With 30 trade partners and almost infinite combinations, if this group wants something, they will find a way. And I love them for it.

Knowing which team was (perhaps) the single most active team in the trade market this past off-season, I'm pretty sure that one of our computer boys came up with this idea. It takes a lot of foresight and research that Florida, in general, isn't exactly known for.

 

[bleedgreen]

Reimer had been awful. I know we like to blame the teams in front of him to make excuses for him but that’s like saying Darling wasn’t that bad it was the team in front of him. We took a heavy risk and despite the good run he’s on I’m still not convinced he’s any better than a decent backup. Which is all we need him to be for now.

Reimer was one of the lesser wanted contracts in the league. We have taken some chances and most of them have worked out but I don’t think we were brilliant or insightful there. We thought to ourselves “anything is better than Darling” and they liked the buyout of Darling more. I doubt they miss Reimer.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Reimer had been awful. I know we like to blame the teams in front of him to make excuses for him but that’s like saying Darling wasn’t that bad it was the team in front of him. We took a heavy risk and despite the good run he’s on I’m still not convinced he’s any better than a decent backup. Which is all we need him to be for now.

Reimer was one of the lesser wanted contracts in the league. We have taken some chances and most of them have worked out but I don’t think we were brilliant or insightful there. We thought to ourselves “anything is better than Darling” and they liked the buyout of Darling more. I doubt they miss Reimer.

I'm of the view that the Reimer trade was insightful but not genius. It can be both at the same time. The Reimer contract was toxic to most clubs because of the signing bonus making it nearly buyout-proof, rather than the overall AAV. Canes, IMO, inquired based on an informed gamble. This gamble was based on the fact that Reimer was league-average in prior seasons outside of the really bad 2018.

 

[bleedgreen]

I'm of the view that the Reimer trade was insightful but not genius. It can be both at the same time. The Reimer contract was toxic to most clubs because of the signing bonus making it nearly buyout-proof, rather than the overall AAV. Canes, IMO, inquired based on an informed gamble. This gamble was based on the fact that Reimer was league-average in prior seasons outside of the really bad 2018.

We’re assuming we called them. Do we have anything to back that up? They were as eager to move Reimer as we were Darling. I think it’s just as likely they called us, and we waited until we couldn’t find a better option for our problem. I doubt we wanted Reimer any more than anyone else did. It was just better than what we had.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

There's no direct evidence, to my knowledge. I lean towards Carolina making the call for two reasons:

1. McKenzie said in a Bobcast in June 2018 that he heard that Dundon doesn't like buyouts. I'll try to find the link later. Obviously, Marleau was acquired and bought out under his watch. However, he was compensated handsomely for that.

2. The Canes also added a pick, albeit a trivial one. Why is Carolina adding a pick if Florida is making the call?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

But somebody had to have the idea and make the phone call. We can analyze this trade "after the fact" and say it made sense for both sides, but somebody with one of the front offices had to see what was going on and find a way to capitalize on it in a sea of 31 teams and 2,000+ players under contract or on reserve lists. And we're not talking about first-line centers here. We're talking about terribad backup goalies. Somebody had to be absolutely on the ball to come up with this idea.

I'd like to think it was somebody from our side, but it may not have been. Like you said, FLA was looking for a more standard contract to buy out. Maybe they targeted Darling. Who knows.

But this is what we're talking about when we talk about creativity. There's almost always a way. Previous regimes here, and others around the league, preferred to toss their hands up and make excuses, but this one prefers to find a way. That's why I worry very little about the "market cooperating." With 30 trade partners and almost infinite combinations, if this group wants something, they will find a way. And I love them for it.

The number of teams that have what you want and want what you have is far more limited than 30. This FO tried to trade a defenseman for a forward for 7-8 months from the Summer of 2018 to mid-season 18-19 and it never materialized. There were teams that wanted what this team had to offer, but evidently no teams had what this FO wanted in return. That wasn't unexpected; a look around the league indicated that there was a pool of trading partners as limited as 1 (the Leafs) and they passed. This FO eventually made a forward for forward trade instead.

I stand by my thought that this team can only do what the market allows them to do. I suppose that's why I don't feel comfortable criticizing previous regimes for trades not made. We have no idea if there were any that would have made the team better to make.

 

[Lempo]

There's no direct evidence, to my knowledge. I lean towards Carolina making the call for two reasons:

1. McKenzie said in a Bobcast in June 2018 that he heard that Dundon doesn't like buyouts. I'll try to find the link later. Obviously, Marleau was acquired and bought out under his watch. However, he was compensated handsomely for that.

2. The Canes also added a pick, albeit a trivial one. Why is Carolina adding a pick if Florida is making the call?

FLA was going to buy out anyway, and Darling had better contract structure for their needs. FLA couldn't have traded Reimer in a trade that made sense in their case, but Reimer had some value as a trade piece as evidenced by us thinking he would be flipped further during the summer.