Would You Trade Scheifele or Laine for a top dman?

[Mortimer Snerd]

JC! Laine is a ppg player playing some of his best hockey. Sure.....if you could get Heiskanen and Seguin, I'd consider it.

If Heiskanen was a RHS, yes. Though Seguin is nearly 28. IDK .......

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Absolutely would trade Laine for a top defenseman.
Looking at even younger star defensemen than Seth Jones, the names Cale Makar and Miro Heiskanen come immediately to mind.
It doesn't mean I think Laine is bad--I just think that Makar and Heikanen are more likely to be achieve true star status than Laine...and we have plenty of firepower on our wings already.
This may be a minority view on this forum, but doubt that would be the case outside Jetsland.

I've said that no one Dman would be worth Laine. Those 2 might be the exceptions. Makar even plays the right side.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

If he played PP this season, I'd be more concerned about the lack of goals. But since he doesn't, not really, can't really expect him to score as much since he gets a good portion of his goals on PP normally. Now that has been taken away so this is what you get. Blame Maurice, Laine did not choose to not be on the PP.

He is on the PP....the #2 unit. I watch a lot of Jets games and while he wasn't producing much on the top unit it's not all his fault. The scheme with him as the featured weapon is stale and if they want to get more out of him there needs to be some variety. I also have noticed that he doesn't get looked for when it comes to the one timer nearly as much.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Fair enough, I think we simply have differing opinions of what we think he may become and/or when.

I just always think of players like Scheifele and Mackinnon etc and where they were at 21. I think Laine is already leaps and bounds ahead of them in his development. Neither of them were getting over 50 pts per season at that age. I'm sure there are many more, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

Yes, Laine has accomplished a considerable amount at a young age. His development curve has been ahead of guys like Scheifele and MacKinnon but that isn't necessarily a predictor of future success or that he will surpass those players. Honestly, I see Laine having a Kessel-like career....if everything pans out. I know some might find that an insult but I don't. Warts and all Kessel has been one of the best point producers in the NHL for most of his career.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Anyone could be moved for the right price.

I wouldn't be looking to move either of these guys though. Scheif's a 1C on a sweetheart deal. Can't see a deal that would make sense.

Similar for Laine, the guy is so young, and has already been so dominant. In no way is he available. The only names I would even listen on are Dhalin, Heiskanen, and Makar.

Well lets just play fantasy trades for a minute. Scheifele for Makar and then Laine somewhere for a 1C. C has to be young. Who has a young C worth Laine? How about Chicago for Dach? Send the paperwork.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Let's draft a top dman and keep them both...

Draft a C with our first and then get one of those crazy 4th rd hits for a Dman.

 

[Huffer]

Well lets just play fantasy trades for a minute. Scheifele for Makar and then Laine somewhere for a 1C. C has to be young. Who has a young C worth Laine? How about Chicago for Dach? Send the paperwork.

That certainly solves any issues with the expansion draft....

 

[Psych0dad]

He is on the PP....the #2 unit. I watch a lot of Jets games and while he wasn't producing much on the top unit it's not all his fault. The scheme with him as the featured weapon is stale and if they want to get more out of him there needs to be some variety. I also have noticed that he doesn't get looked for when it comes to the one timer nearly as much.

Yeah and that PP2 doesn't get much time or chance at all. Mainly they get the last 20+ seconds of powerplay and get to start from behind own net. That to me is effectively no PP time. They don't even get in the zone in that time.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He is on the PP....the #2 unit. I watch a lot of Jets games and while he wasn't producing much on the top unit it's not all his fault. The scheme with him as the featured weapon is stale and if they want to get more out of him there needs to be some variety. I also have noticed that he doesn't get looked for when it comes to the one timer nearly as much.

They needed to change PP1. They did not need to take Laine off it.

 

[NotCommitted]

From the top of my head, I can't think of a Finnish hockey player you could say reached their peak before 23-24 years old or so. Rantanen is 23 now, Selänne during his rookie season was 22(or 23, not sure), Barkov really took a leap forward in his 22 and 23 year old seasons.

No one can know what exactly will be Laine's peak level and past year has been a bit weird for his development trajectory, but it still seems highly unlikely Laine 2-years from now wouldn't be a better hockey player than he is at the moment. And he's already pretty good.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes, Laine has accomplished a considerable amount at a young age. His development curve has been ahead of guys like Scheifele and MacKinnon but that isn't necessarily a predictor of future success or that he will surpass those players. Honestly, I see Laine having a Kessel-like career....if everything pans out. I know some might find that an insult but I don't. Warts and all Kessel has been one of the best point producers in the NHL for most of his career.

Yeah, that is sort of an insult. Kessel is what Laine has often been called. One dimensional. In his 14 seasons he managed to exceed ppg just once and hit it right on twice more. He hit 37 goals twice and matched Laine's rookie total, 36 one other time. Laine has already done things Kessel never could.

Since we are talking trade values here, Kessel was traded just before his 4th NHL season. The return was Tyler Seguin + Dougie Hamilton + a high 2nd (32OA) who did not pan out (not Kessel's fault). He was just traded again this off-season for Galchenyuk and PO Joseph. He's 32 now and well past his peak.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah and that PP2 doesn't get much time or chance at all. Mainly they get the last 20+ seconds of powerplay and get to start from behind own net. That to me is effectively no PP time. They don't even get in the zone in that time.

I agree with your point but I think you are overstating it a little. Mau has said that he wants the 2 units sharing time near equally. When play allows they have been changing earlier than they used to and he has started with the 2nd unit more often. But it is still clear which is the first unit and which is the 2nd. Patrik is clearly on the 2nd unit now.

 

[Psych0dad]

Mau has said that he wants the 2 units sharing time near equally.

I have not seen those results on the ice, so I'll put it in the "stuff that Paul says that sounds good but doesn't really happen" pile which is quite massive. It's a nice theory but he doesn't use it.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I agree with your point but I think you are overstating it a little. Mau has said that he wants the 2 units sharing time near equally. When play allows they have been changing earlier than they used to and he has started with the 2nd unit more often. But it is still clear which is the first unit and which is the 2nd. Patrik is clearly on the 2nd unit now.

They should just ruin laine for the first minute and a half no matter what line and if the other time clears the zone and gets it down the ice have him change then.

 

[LowLefty]

They should just ruin laine for the first minute and a half no matter what line and if the other time clears the zone and gets it down the ice have him change then.

They pulled Laine from PP1 because he struggles with possession on his wall - he's not great with the puck on his off wing and they were losing the zone due to that issue. That and the fact that he wan't shooting that well earlier on.

So they change it up with better possession guys and are able to hang onto the zone longer but now they don't shoot enough -
It'll get tweaked again soon I would think- maybe Laine gets another crack at it but he needs to work on picking up pucks off the wall when they come around his way.

 

[Howard Chuck]

They pulled Laine from PP1 because he struggles with possession on his wall - he's not great with the puck on his off wing and they were losing the zone due to that issue. That and the fact that he wan't shooting that well earlier on.

So they change it up with better possession guys and are able to hang onto the zone longer but now they don't shoot enough -
It'll get tweaked again soon I would think- maybe Laine gets another crack at it but he needs to work on picking up pucks off the wall when they come around his way.

I would like them to stay away from the wall in the first place. That perimeter game is driving me crazy. I think Ehlers, Roslo, Scheif, Pionk would be very good at keeping possession and driving the opposition crazy, while also opening up Laine. Laine himself is also a great passer and playmaker and would fit in there very well.

Laine and Wheeler in a more static formation just haven't been doing it for about a year.

I'd be willing to put money on it, that a unit of Ehlers, Roslo, Scheif, Pionk, Laine starting each PP would score far more than we have so far.

 

[LowLefty]

I would like them to stay away from the wall in the first place. That perimeter game is driving me crazy. I think Ehlers, Roslo, Scheif, Pionk would be very good at keeping possession and driving the opposition crazy, while also opening up Laine. Laine himself is also a great passer and playmaker and would fit in there very well.

Laine and Wheeler in a more static formation just haven't been doing it for about a year.

I'd be willing to put money on it, that a unit of Ehlers, Roslo, Scheif, Pionk, Laine starting each PP would score far more than we have so far.

You missed the point -
He's expected to pick up clearing attempts, shots from the point or the other winger that come around the wall.
He doesn't do it very well - he struggles with that long stick in tight along the boards and is too slow in reacting to the shots coming around.
He then gets stripped of the puck and it's heading the other way - this used to happen a lot when he was on that wing and was a major reason we could not hold the zone.

 

[Psych0dad]

they were losing the zone due to that issue.

95% of the time (I know, exaggeration) it died on Wheelers stick and came out. Laine wasn't handling the puck even when he was in PP1, this year it never worked. It was not working well last year either. People learned to pressure Wheeler with the puck and no plays were made, often he'd pass it out of the zone himself, or just lose possession. That's why they broke it up, they just didn't break up the faulty part (wheeler to laine) or the issue with zone entries.

They made the 1st unit good for zone entries (Ehlers) and dropped the Wheeler-Laine combo to 2nd PP where it's even more useless and never gets any chances.

PoMo can't fix a problem to save his life. If he does fix one by mistake (or forced like in Little injury), he will make up for it by breaking something else. Most logical people would create at least one working combination that has both puck movement, zone entry AND the best shooter in the team. Not Paul though. He special. He creates two units that don't work, and effectively makes his sniper obsolete.

But anyway, to the topic, I wouldn't trade either one. Chef is on a great contract and Laine is the franchise.

 

[Psych0dad]

he struggles with that long stick in tight along the boards

Agreed.

Not that he HAS To to be used on the left boards to be on the PP (there's a bumper spot too, and on RW he would have forehand on the boards) . That's a coaching decision.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

The whole unit has sucked at:

1. Gaining the zone with control
2. When not being able to gain the zone, dump it in and successfully retrieve the puck along the boards
3. Take advantage of having more men on ice than the defending team by passing the puck and switching positions until the defense fails to stay with them

Laine losing the puck along the boards is not the reason why they fail to keep posession. Lousy and slow entries, slow retrieval, slow perimeter play along the boards, boneheaded and slow decisionmaking from the qb...slow, slow, slow and predictable. The Jets are lousy at gaining the zone with control, and when they manage to establish play I get almost as excited as when they score a goal, since it’s such a rare accomplishment to them

 

[Adam da bomb]

Interesting thread has become about pp.

 

[LowLefty]

95% of the time (I know, exaggeration) it died on Wheelers stick and came out. Laine wasn't handling the puck even when he was in PP1, this year it never worked. It was not working well last year either. People learned to pressure Wheeler with the puck and no plays were made, often he'd pass it out of the zone himself, or just lose possession. That's why they broke it up, they just didn't break up the faulty part (wheeler to laine) or the issue with zone entries.

They made the 1st unit good for zone entries (Ehlers) and dropped the Wheeler-Laine combo to 2nd PP where it's even more useless and never gets any chances.

PoMo can't fix a problem to save his life. If he does fix one by mistake (or forced like in Little injury), he will make up for it by breaking something else. Most logical people would create at least one working combination that has both puck movement, zone entry AND the best shooter in the team. Not Paul though. He special. He creates two units that don't work, and effectively makes his sniper obsolete.

You're right - wheeler was part of it - that's why he isn't QB'ing the first unit anymore. He'd probably be OK in the slot but then you're loading up #1 again - I'd actually be OK with that.

But Laine was the other half of the problem - he waited for the pass and that's about it - anything on the wall was usually a turnover. Wheeler was obviously asked to make Laine the target and then it all becomes predictable.

The top PP as is should score if they'd shoot the puck - they certainly move it around well enough to get shots from both the shooters on the wing. Copp doesn't help - he's not much of a slot option.

 

[TheJadePipe]

You don't think the Jackets would trade Jones for Laine?

Absolutely not, it would be a quick no from them

 

[TheJadePipe]

Might be an auto accept for you. I would want an add from CBJ.

I would trade for Seth Jones in a heartbeat

 

[Farmboy Patty]

Interesting thread has become about pp.

We should have a poll about if we should keep on discussing the PP or the great idea to trade away our franchise players.