Would you trade Bogosian for Sam Reinhart str8 up on draft day?

[GJF]

IMO nothing on HFBoards comes close to the overrating of draft picks. Especially among the fan bases of the perpetual also runs. Edmonton being the primary example, but to a lesser extend a host of other franchises including the Jets. Every top 10 pick is seen as the next franchise player that will lead the team to the promised land. If this were actually the case the Jets would be among the league's best teams.

In the 15 year history of the franchise (Atlanta & Winnipeg) we have had 12 top 10 picks (including this up coming draft).

Including:
2 - #1
2 - #2
1 - #3
1 - #4
1 - #7
2 - #8
2 - #9
1 - #10

Add to that #12 (Little) and # 13 (Morrissey).

Drafting high is something we have done lots of, maybe only second to teams like the Oilers and Panthers who are among the perennial bottom feeders. Yet we have only made the playoff once and have yet to win a playoff game.

I believe in the draft and develop model, but only if it is followed by the player playing a role on the current team rather then trade developed player for a new pick to draft and develop.

To me this discussion goes beyond the 2 players in question. Reinhart for Bogo, as any deal can make sense in isolation, but to a bigger picture of does this franchise have a plan and direction. Because if gets in a mode of trading actual players for picks we will flounder season after season.

Not only that you start undermining the foundation of the team. Chipman has been pretty vocal about wanting players that want to be here (Winnipeg). Probably no player on the team has bought into that more than Bogo. He signed a 7 year contract, has got involved in the community, built a house, brought in the team's prized rookie as a room mate etc. If players see foundation guys like that dealt for picks, you will have a very hard time selling the we value loyalty angle to players. We are not a market like new York of Philly that can get away moving players in and out on a carousel.

IMO our only hope is an extremely stable franchise that develops within and have players who chose to stay.

Good post, KingBogo

 

[Duke749]

Wish we could redo Bogo's contract. Oh well. **** happens. While most of us are probably on the fence with something like this, replacing a guy like Bogo would be a little difficult. Big, physical, can skate phenomenally and for days. A guy like him would be very beneficial on the blueline and maybe more so in the playoffs. Just stay healthy damnit! lol

 

[TheDeuce]

Wish we could redo Bogo's contract. Oh well. **** happens. While most of us are probably on the fence with something like this, replacing a guy like Bogo would be a little difficult. Big, physical, can skate phenomenally and for days. A guy like him would be very beneficial on the blueline and maybe more so in the playoffs. Just stay healthy damnit! lol

It's too early to say if Bogosian's contract is a wanna-redo or not. I'm eager to see how/if he rebounds next season. If the Jets got a chance from the redo contract fairy then I'd want them to use it on the Pavelec anchor.

And with that this thread has now met the HFJets axiomatic requirement that all threads make reference to our embattled goaler. Doing my part.




m.

 

[Bob E]

Wish we could redo Bogo's contract. Oh well. **** happens. While most of us are probably on the fence with something like this, replacing a guy like Bogo would be a little difficult. Big, physical, can skate phenomenally and for days. A guy like him would be very beneficial on the blueline and maybe more so in the playoffs. Just stay healthy damnit! lol

Pretty much this.

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

I voted in favor of this. I think Bogo is a very good asset for us when he is playing healthy. I just don't think Bogo is going to stay healthy.

 

[ps241]

This a good poll and the thread has a healthy level of good debate.

I am looking forward to seeing what Zach brings to the table next season and his first full year under PoMo. I have a soft spot for Zach and am hoping he can get his game count up.

 

[scelaton]

First Overall picks the last 10 years;
2004 Washington Capitals Alexander Ovechkin
2005 Pittsburgh Penguins Sidney Crosby
2006 St. Louis Blues Erik Johnson
2007 Chicago Blackhawks Patrick Kane
2008 Tampa Bay Lightning Steven Stamkos
2009 New York Islanders John Tavares
2010 Edmonton Oilers Taylor Hall
2011 Edmonton Oilers Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2012 Edmonton Oilers Nail Yakupov
2013 Colorado Avalanche Nathan MacKinnon

Not much of a crap shoot after all

 

[wpgsilver]

First Overall picks the last 10 years;
2004 Washington Capitals Alexander Ovechkin
2005 Pittsburgh Penguins Sidney Crosby
2006 St. Louis Blues Erik Johnson
2007 Chicago Blackhawks Patrick Kane
2008 Tampa Bay Lightning Steven Stamkos
2009 New York Islanders John Tavares
2010 Edmonton Oilers Taylor Hall
2011 Edmonton Oilers Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2012 Edmonton Oilers Nail Yakupov
2013 Colorado Avalanche Nathan MacKinnon

Not much of a crap shoot after all

To be fair, I don't think Reinhart is in the same tier as most of those players.

 

[Bob E]

Is Sam Reinhart the best player in this draft?

I personally think someone else will be that guy in the long term, and my money is on Sam Bennett. If the deal was Bennett for Bogo, I'd really have to think about that, tbh.

 

[StronGeer]

To be fair, I don't think Reinhart is in the same tier as most of those players.

I'd put him on par with Yak.

Still, he's no Stammer/Tavares.

 

[wpgsilver]

I'd put him on par with Yak.

Still, he's no Stammer/Tavares.

I agree, thus why I said "most".

 

[StronGeer]

I agree, thus why I said "most".

I know. I am also agreeing with you.

 

[scelaton]

To be fair, I don't think Reinhart is in the same tier as most of those players.

Is Sam Reinhart the best player in this draft?

I personally think someone else will be that guy in the long term, and my money is on Sam Bennett. If the deal was Bennett for Bogo, I'd really have to think about that, tbh.

I posted the list because I took the OP to be implying Reinhart was the best forward available. "To be fair", comparing Reinhart to an established NHL star casts him in an unfair light, but the fact remains most first overall selections do very well.
So do the best 2 forwards in each draft. Over the past 5 years they include:
Mckinnon, Barkov
Yakupov, Galchenyuk
RNH, Landeskog
Hall, Seguin
Tavares, Duchene

Those are the comparables in this hypothetical trade.

 

[KingBogo]

First Overall picks the last 10 years;
2004 Washington Capitals Alexander Ovechkin
2005 Pittsburgh Penguins Sidney Crosby
2006 St. Louis Blues Erik Johnson
2007 Chicago Blackhawks Patrick Kane
2008 Tampa Bay Lightning Steven Stamkos
2009 New York Islanders John Tavares
2010 Edmonton Oilers Taylor Hall
2011 Edmonton Oilers Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2012 Edmonton Oilers Nail Yakupov
2013 Colorado Avalanche Nathan MacKinnon

Not much of a crap shoot after all

I was taking the Reinhart for Bogo as a trade for #3, first because he is likely the 3rd best prospect after Bennet and Ekblad. And only Edmonton would have made any sense. Buffalo has a stable of young defenseman and needs forwards and Florida would want the cheap actual $ but bigger cap hit of an ELC. Edmonton has a slew of young forwards and Bogo, would instantly be their best d-man. Sorry my bad for taking those sort of things into consideration

 

[John Agar]

Yes I would do this deal straight up.

Bogo is still potential. Yes he has all the tools. He is always in the service bay and has yet fulfilled even the roll of a steady reliable defenceman because of all his injuries. I suspect he doesn't have a toolbox to be an upper end defenseman, just a possible solid minute eater; but all these injuries.

Reinhart people in this thread are arguing he's not a Crosby, he's not an Ovechkin, blah blah blah.

No he isn't a generational player, what he is a very high hockey IQ that has above average skills in almost all areas, leadership and winner pedigree and at the very least upper end 2nd line Centreman for a lot of years playing above average hockey for many years. Exactly what the Jets need.

Bogosian is still a prospect, no more; a teaser for sure, but no sure thing.

I'd take Reinhart in a heartbeat.

 

[copernicanrevolution]

On the subject of Sam Reinhart, I don't think he's the player that you hitch your wagon too. If it was MacKinnon, my answer might be different, I'm just not as sold on Sam Reinhart in general. I don't think he's going to be a hundred plus player in the NHL, probably more along the lines of 80pts or so.

So you think he's going to be a top 8 forward in scoring in the NHL but not worth trading Bogo for?

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

So you think he's going to be a top 8 forward in scoring in the NHL but not worth trading Bogo for?

pfft logic is so overrated

 

[Holden Caulfield]

First Overall picks the last 10 years;
2004 Washington Capitals Alexander Ovechkin
2005 Pittsburgh Penguins Sidney Crosby
2006 St. Louis Blues Erik Johnson
2007 Chicago Blackhawks Patrick Kane
2008 Tampa Bay Lightning Steven Stamkos
2009 New York Islanders John Tavares
2010 Edmonton Oilers Taylor Hall
2011 Edmonton Oilers Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2012 Edmonton Oilers Nail Yakupov
2013 Colorado Avalanche Nathan MacKinnon

Not much of a crap shoot after all

The question wasn't the first overall pick. It was Sam Reinhart. I draw a very distinct difference there.

 

[surixon]

I think there is a reason why a number of the top picks this year are on the market. There is no can't miss star player or two that most of the past drafts had. While I believe some good players can be had this year I don't believe it's worth it to trade young established players for potential at this point in time.

As stated earlier, we need to create a culture of people wanting be and play here. Bogo is one who wants to stay and I still believe he has another level to get to. Even if he doesn't there isn't anything wrong with a physical minute muching dmen who can play in all situations and pit up 25 to 30 points.

 

[scelaton]

I think there is a reason why a number of the top picks this year are on the market. There is no can't miss star player or two that most of the past drafts had. While I believe some good players can be had this year I don't believe it's worth it to trade young established players for potential at this point in time.

As stated earlier, we need to create a culture of people wanting be and play here. Bogo is one who wants to stay and I still believe he has another level to get to. Even if he doesn't there isn't anything wrong with a physical minute muching dmen who can play in all situations and pit up 25 to 30 points.

Look, I share the high hopes for Bogo of many on this board and was pushing the case deliberately by comparing Reinhart to previous #1 picks.
BUT
The point I was trying to make is that is that the big trade everyone seems to want won't just come on our terms and we shouldn't poo-poo a proposal just because the Jets player is talented, has potential or is a nice guy. You have to look at what is on the other side and do the math. Expect the trade, whenever and whoever it is, to hurt at first, like medicine.
We have 4 top-4 defence men on the Jets, 3 of which are RHD (I am including Buff here), with decent RH depth behind them.
And we have 5-6 legitimate top 6 Fs, with no depth behind them.
If you can't get the deal you want for Buff, but a sweet offer comes in for one of the others, who is expendable and what's the price?

 

[surixon]

Look, I share the high hopes for Bogo of many on this board and was pushing the case deliberately by comparing Reinhart to previous #1 picks.
BUT
The point I was trying to make is that is that the big trade everyone seems to want won't just come on our terms and we shouldn't poo-poo a proposal just because the Jets player is talented, has potential or is a nice guy. You have to look at what is on the other side and do the math. Expect the trade, whenever and whoever it is, to hurt at first, like medicine.
We have 4 top-4 defence men on the Jets, 3 of which are RHD (I am including Buff here), with decent RH depth behind them.
And we have 5-6 legitimate top 6 Fs, with no depth behind them.
If you can't get the deal you want for Buff, but a sweet offer comes in for one of the others, who is expendable and what's the price?

I definitely understand your point. I just don't like the top end talent of this draft enough to make this type of move. For instance IMO none of the high end players this year would of cracked last years drafts top 4 so you are realistically looking at Bogo for a number 5-7 pick in a good draft year. That's not worth it to me. I am open to trading anyone if it makes sense, I just don't think in this case it would.

 

[sully1410]

So you think he's going to be a top 8 forward in scoring in the NHL but not worth trading Bogo for?

pfft logic is so overrated

Is Matt Duchene or Tyler Seguin more valuable then Shea Weber or Drew Doughty?

To be clear, I'm not saying that Goj is at that level...the question lies with do you think he can be?

I think so, and I would take both of those Defense men over those forwards everyday of the week. Its a calculated risk, but even if he doesn't turn out to be as good as those players...he's still a really good #2 or #3 guy, so its not like we will have lost anything...if that makes sense.

 

[truck]

Is Matt Duchene or Tyler Seguin more valuable then Shea Weber or Drew Doughty?

To be clear, I'm not saying that Goj is at that level...the question lies with do you think he can be?

I think so, and I would take both of those Defense men over those forwards everyday of the week. Its a calculated risk, but even if he doesn't turn out to be as good as those players...he's still a really good #2 or #3 guy, so its not like we will have lost anything...if that makes sense.

Call me a skeptic, but IMO:

Bogo is ideally a #3 (on a good team) right now and a fairly mediocre one. He is nowhere near a Doughty or Weber and IMO unlikely to ever achieve that kind of height. I mean he is miles behind where they were at his age.

I would love to see it, but I just don't think he has the hockey sense to get anywhere near there.

In the future:

I fully anticipate Trouba will jump him within a year and I wouldn't be surprised if Morrissey did the same they year after. Bogo is a great athlete.

 

[sully1410]

Call me a skeptic, but IMO:

Bogo is ideally a #3 (on a good team) right now and a fairly mediocre one. He is nowhere near a Doughty or Weber and IMO unlikely to ever achieve that kind of height. I mean he is miles behind where they were at his age.

I would love to see it, but I just don't think he has the hockey sense to get anywhere near there.

In the future:

I fully anticipate Trouba will jump him within a year and I wouldn't be surprised if Morrissey did the same they year after. Bogo is a great athlete.

He really only needs to shake the injury bug. He has shown us that he can contribute offensively if given half a chance, and he did it with little to no PP time. i think he can still do it, but he needs to stay healthy and not get ****ing injured all the time.

Lets take Doughty for instance, sure he's had a year or so where he was above average offensively, but for the most part he is in and around a forty point DMan, and I think Bogo is very close to him, if not right on ****ing top of him defensively. Do we honestly think that Bogo can't hit forty points? If he stays healthy? I think he probably could.

 

[truck]

He really only needs to shake the injury bug. He has shown us that he can contribute offensively if given half a chance, and he did it with little to no PP time. i think he can still do it, but he needs to stay healthy and not get ****ing injured all the time.

Lets take Doughty for instance, sure he's had a year or so where he was above average offensively, but for the most part he is in and around a forty point DMan, and I think Bogo is very close to him, if not right on ****ing top of him defensively. Do we honestly think that Bogo can't hit forty points? If he stays healthy? I think he probably could.

I couldn't disagree more amigo.

Doughty is excellent defensively. Bogo is kinda the opposite of that. He is more comparable to Voynov or Muzzin in that regard than Doughty IMO and I might take either of those guys over him.

I would see him as no better than the fourth best D man in LA. Same goes for Stl. He gets lost a lot in the D zone and kinda sucks at shot / chance suppression.

I see him as pretty well a pure offensive D man who is being mis-cast.

If Bogo is Doughty, Toby is Lindstrom.