Would the Wolves be independent? Upd: apparently yes, Independence Day

[axecrew]

There is precedent the AHL could go the route of Norfolk, threaten not to schedule them. The AHL could also grant a provisional franchise to Carolina like they did with Cedar Park, or the AHL could have Carolina share a franchise with another NHL team.

Every one of those scenarios carry more questions than answers at the moment....

What if Carolina doesn't want to share? What if another NHL franchise doesn't want to share with Carolina? What if the NHL doesn't want Carolina to be left alone? How the NHL respond? 21 of the 32 teams are currently owned by NHL clubs with another half dozen having a very close relationship with their NHL parent club. What is preventing the NHL from forcing Chicago out by shuttering the league, and moving to a new developmental league? While Chicago's owner has money, the NHL has money as well, and those players are assets so a lawsuit while not preferred, I do not believe scares the AHL because the NHL would foot the bill.

Again, I'm not saying Chicago will or won't be an independent, but its not going to happen in a vacuum.

The only thing I don't agree with is the part about the NHL footing the bill in the event of a lawsuit...I can't see the other 31 teams willing to pony up money to fight a lawsuit that carolina's owner created by breaking the agreement they have in place right now. Although I don't know if the agreement is up at seasons end I just can't see the NHL paying for a lawsuit involving the AHL. Can you imagine Phoenix or any of the other lower revenue teams being told ok you have to spend at least $63 million on players oh and we need you to kick in another X for this idiotic lawsuit we've decided to bankroll.
Plus I have to think the other 10 privately owned teams would be watching very closely to what happened and maybe even secretly rooting for Chicago behind closed doors, in spite of their close relationship with their current partners. Not because they LOVE Chicago but more so because it provides them leverage in their situations.

 

[Chrispy]

The only thing I don't agree with is the part about the NHL footing the bill in the event of a lawsuit...I can't see the other 31 teams willing to pony up money to fight a lawsuit that carolina's owner created by breaking the agreement they have in place right now. Although I don't know if the agreement is up at seasons end I just can't see the NHL paying for a lawsuit involving the AHL. Can you imagine Phoenix or any of the other lower revenue teams being told ok you have to spend at least $63 million on players oh and we need you to kick in another X for this idiotic lawsuit we've decided to bankroll.
Plus I have to think the other 10 privately owned teams would be watching very closely to what happened and maybe even secretly rooting for Chicago behind closed doors, in spite of their close relationship with their current partners. Not because they LOVE Chicago but more so because it provides them leverage in their situations.

Carolina's owner is not breaking any agreement.

The 3 year deal they signed with Chicago expires at the end of the season, and Chicago informed Carolina the Wolves intend to not re-up with Carolina and go independent rather than sign on with another NHL team.

From the News & Observer in Raleigh:

The Hurricanes and Wolves will finish out a three-year agreement after the 2022-23 season. That contract, signed in September 2020, ended the Hurricanes’ AHL association with the Charlotte Checkers.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

The ideal scenario is for the Wolves to be indie, Carolina replace St. Louis as the parent club of Springfield, and St. Louis launches a brand new AHL affiliate somewhere in the Central Time Zone which would join the Central Division.

 

[axecrew]

Carolina's owner is not breaking any agreement.

The 3 year deal they signed with Chicago expires at the end of the season, and Chicago informed Carolina the Wolves intend to not re-up with Carolina and go independent rather than sign on with another NHL team.

From the News & Observer in Raleigh:

The reason that they will not at this moment renew with each other is due to breaking a clause or agreement within the contract by the owner of Carolina...And if you would've read the WHOLE post instead of jumping to prove me wrong before anyone else could...you would see where I said I wasn't sure if the deal was up at season's end or not. The "clause or agreement" that was broken was during the initial talks it was agreed upon by Carolina that the Wolves would develop their players AND field a competitive club with players provided by Carolina. After the Calder Cup win last season Chicago was informed by Carolina that they had decided that they only wanted the Wolves develop players and that if the Wolves wanted to win then they could have any player they wanted in Chicago...BUT Carolina wouldn't pay for them. And there is the crust of why...Carolina agreed to one thing and then changed it.

The ideal scenario is for the Wolves to be indie, Carolina replace St. Louis as the parent club of Springfield, and St. Louis launches a brand new AHL affiliate somewhere in the Central Time Zone which would join the Central Division.

I just can't LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[jabberoski]

The ideal scenario is for the Wolves to be indie, Carolina replace St. Louis as the parent club of Springfield, and St. Louis launches a brand new AHL affiliate somewhere in the Central Time Zone which would join the Central Division.

Except St. Louis does not own an AHL franchise, and they made it quite clear when selling Peoria over a decade ago that they have no desire to do so.

 

[Chrispy]

The reason that they will not at this moment renew with each other is due to breaking a clause or agreement within the contract by the owner of Carolina...And if you would've read the WHOLE post instead of jumping to prove me wrong before anyone else could...you would see where I said I wasn't sure if the deal was up at season's end or not. The "clause or agreement" that was broken was during the initial talks it was agreed upon by Carolina that the Wolves would develop their players AND field a competitive club with players provided by Carolina. After the Calder Cup win last season Chicago was informed by Carolina that they had decided that they only wanted the Wolves develop players and that if the Wolves wanted to win then they could have any player they wanted in Chicago...BUT Carolina wouldn't pay for them. And there is the crust of why...Carolina agreed to one thing and then changed it.


I just can't LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Chicago just came off a Calder Cup trophy, and did it largely with Carolina prospects. Just as Charlotte did in 2019. Chicago is still in contention for a playoff spot this year with Carolina's prospects. They have won with Carolina's prospects. They were excited to get Carolina prospects as their GM said in 2020:

"Of the Hurricanes, Young said, “They care about their AHL affiliate and they’ve done a great job of drafting and building through trades. We’re excited about the prospects coming here.”

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/nhl/carolina-hurricanes/article274044470.html#storylink=cpy

Chicago was fine in 2020 with the Wolves paying for a portion of AHL veteran contracts, and so was Carolina. Having to pay for most of the veterans to fill out the roster was one of the sticking points between Charlotte and the Hurricanes.

What are the moves that likely upset Chicago? In order to re-sign Noesen and Chatfield after the Calder Cup, Carolina offered them each 2 year NHL contracts where the first year was 2-way and the second year was 1-way. OTOH, Carolina did not sign Andrew Poturalski after the Calder Cup, who signed a 2 year 1-way deal with Seattle for $762K.

Then both Noesen and Chatfield made the team in training camp. Looking at the numbers, Noesen has put up 35 points (22 on the PP) this season and Chatfield has been a very good third pairing D in Raleigh with different partners and putting up 35 points of his own. Meanwhile, Poturalski did not make the Kraken, got hurt in January, and is out for the season. I'm sure the Wolves would prefer a 29 year old player making $762K spending the whole season in Chicago, but if the player is good enough to make the NHL team he's not going to stay in Chicago.

These players fought their way to (or in Noesen's case back to) an NHL job and kept that NHL job with their play. That's only going to get worse for the Wolves as an independent: fringe NHL players would rather sign a 2-way deal to take a shot at an NHL job than take a year-long AHL contract. Any player in Noesen's shoes coming off a 48 goal AHL season will be looking for an NHL contract. Poturalski would prefer the chance to play in the NHL than a similar contract from the Wolves with little chance to play in the NHL that year.

Carolina also signed Malte Stromwall, Ryan Dzingel, and Mackenzie MacEachern as forwards and William Lagesson as well as keeping Lajoie and Fitzgerald from last season's team on defense. All of these players got guarantees above their AHL salary so even if they spent all season in Chicago they got money equivalent to a little time in Raleigh. There were veterans signed by Carolina to play in Chicago; the performance just wasn't the same this year.

And the biggest reason the performance wasn't the same is likely that Ryan Warsofsky left to be an assistant coach in San Jose to further his career. Again, you can't keep a player or coach from trying to further their career in the NHL. And whether Warsofsky moved up to Raleigh or another location, he wanted experience on an NHL bench to prepare him for an NHL head coaching job.

So what exactly is the agreement that was violated? Carolina brought in veteran players to help Chicago win. Carolina paid guarantees to the veterans above their AHL salaries. It appears Chicago is upset because the performance wasn't as good this year and they are looking for a scapegoat.

 

[vegarover]

I'm really interested to see how the Wolves construct their roster. In theory they could have 6 absolute stud veteran skaters and two high-end goalies, but the rest of the roster would be guys NHL teams gave up on or aren't really interested in to begin with.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

There will NOT be a 33rd team...not today not tomorrow not until the NHL expands to that number. That is a thought that is 100% completely off the books. Bottomline is simple...Chicago can 100% indeed go independent, they fulfilled the requirement to enter the league over 2 decades ago when they affiliated with Atlanta. As long as they play by the same rules the other 31 teams play by there isn't anything to say. Can the league play hardball with them like Tommy said...absolutely they can play that way and tell them they won't schedule any games for them...BUT...they won't.. WHY? Quite simple..The AHL does NOT want to get into a pissing contest with Wolves ownership, who is a Sports Agent who is a lawyer...and the other a Billionaire, especially in light of the fact that said ownership has felt the AHL treated them like crap all this time. That is the VERY reason Chicago being a travel hub has never hosted an AHL All Star game in spite of how logical it would be...they don't want anymore dealings with the league then they have to.
The question no one seems to be zeroing in on is...What is carolina going to do? They only have a small number of choices...
#1...Come to jesus and figure out how to make it work with Chicago
#2...hope to share a team with someone
#3 sprinkle their guys throughout the league ala Dallas a number of years ago
2 and 3 aren't very good options for a team that just wants their affiliate to only develop their players because just because they are there doesn't mean they will or have to play meaningful minutes. Not too mention they sure won't be developing any chemistry with their organization team mates playing apart from each other in another teams systems.

Guess we will see what happens


Read my post below yours...and that untapped market you speak of...do some research and look at the tons of different entertainment options the city of Chicago has on any given night...and not just sports...

Wolves Chairman / governor, Don Levin, is an outstanding man with a heart of gold. 1 of the nicest, quietest most humble guys you can ever meet , considering his net worth, and is very interactive with wolves fans.

The entire problem between Wolves / Canes is Canes Owner Tom Dundon and his hands on meddling ego maniac approach.

PERIOD

 

[G50]

I think there has to be 33 teams in the AHL to continue allowing all 32 teams to have an AHL affiliate of their own.

As it stands, I think Grand Rapids should move to the North Division to join the rest of the ETZ teams in the East, while Calgary and Colorado, both MTZ teams in areas that observe DST, should be moved to the Central. The 33rd team has to go to the Western Conference because I think the East should be affiliated with Eastern teams in the NHL, and the West teams outside the Wolves be affiliated with NHL Western Conference teams. It is up to the AHL where they would want to place team #33.

The ex-IHL teams need to just stay together instead. No need to break up the best division rivalries in the AHL and arguably hockey.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

The ex-IHL teams need to just stay together instead. No need to break up the best division rivalries in the AHL and arguably hockey.

Actually Cleveland-Grand Rapids could be a nice allegory for UM-OSU.

 

[wildcat48]

Wolves Chairman / governor, Don Levin, is an outstanding man with a heart of gold. 1 of the nicest, quietest most humble guys you can ever meet , considering his net worth, and is very interactive with wolves fans.

The entire problem between Wolves / Canes is Canes Owner Tom Dundon and his hands on meddling ego maniac approach.

PERIOD

And, what does that have to do without anything?

Levin could kiss babies, raise puppies and cure cancer and none of that has any bearing on the facts that this situation does not reside in a vacuum, and there is going to be multiple factors that decide the ultimate outcome for both the Wolves and the Hurricanes.

 

[axecrew]

Chicago just came off a Calder Cup trophy, and did it largely with Carolina prospects. Just as Charlotte did in 2019. Chicago is still in contention for a playoff spot this year with Carolina's prospects. They have won with Carolina's prospects. They were excited to get Carolina prospects as their GM said in 2020:

"Of the Hurricanes, Young said, “They care about their AHL affiliate and they’ve done a great job of drafting and building through trades. We’re excited about the prospects coming here.”

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/nhl/carolina-hurricanes/article274044470.html#storylink=cpy

Chicago was fine in 2020 with the Wolves paying for a portion of AHL veteran contracts, and so was Carolina. Having to pay for most of the veterans to fill out the roster was one of the sticking points between Charlotte and the Hurricanes.

What are the moves that likely upset Chicago? In order to re-sign Noesen and Chatfield after the Calder Cup, Carolina offered them each 2 year NHL contracts where the first year was 2-way and the second year was 1-way. OTOH, Carolina did not sign Andrew Poturalski after the Calder Cup, who signed a 2 year 1-way deal with Seattle for $762K.

Then both Noesen and Chatfield made the team in training camp. Looking at the numbers, Noesen has put up 35 points (22 on the PP) this season and Chatfield has been a very good third pairing D in Raleigh with different partners and putting up 35 points of his own. Meanwhile, Poturalski did not make the Kraken, got hurt in January, and is out for the season. I'm sure the Wolves would prefer a 29 year old player making $762K spending the whole season in Chicago, but if the player is good enough to make the NHL team he's not going to stay in Chicago.

These players fought their way to (or in Noesen's case back to) an NHL job and kept that NHL job with their play. That's only going to get worse for the Wolves as an independent: fringe NHL players would rather sign a 2-way deal to take a shot at an NHL job than take a year-long AHL contract. Any player in Noesen's shoes coming off a 48 goal AHL season will be looking for an NHL contract. Poturalski would prefer the chance to play in the NHL than a similar contract from the Wolves with little chance to play in the NHL that year.

Carolina also signed Malte Stromwall, Ryan Dzingel, and Mackenzie MacEachern as forwards and William Lagesson as well as keeping Lajoie and Fitzgerald from last season's team on defense. All of these players got guarantees above their AHL salary so even if they spent all season in Chicago they got money equivalent to a little time in Raleigh. There were veterans signed by Carolina to play in Chicago; the performance just wasn't the same this year.

And the biggest reason the performance wasn't the same is likely that Ryan Warsofsky left to be an assistant coach in San Jose to further his career. Again, you can't keep a player or coach from trying to further their career in the NHL. And whether Warsofsky moved up to Raleigh or another location, he wanted experience on an NHL bench to prepare him for an NHL head coaching job.

So what exactly is the agreement that was violated? Carolina brought in veteran players to help Chicago win. Carolina paid guarantees to the veterans above their AHL salaries. It appears Chicago is upset because the performance wasn't as good this year and they are looking for a scapegoat.

All I can tell you what I was told by a GM of another AHL team that I am friends with...and that is that on the 1st day of free agency this past summer he called Young and asked him why Carolina wasn't signing any help for Chicago was told because Carolina told him if he wanted them they weren't paying for them.
All of the former players you mentioned that moved on were on Carolina contracts last year so that doesn't really mean a whole lot...in Poturalski's case he thought he wouldn't play in the minors and would make what he thought was a bad Seattle club...they ain't as bad as he thought.

You bring up Noesen and Chatfield...Ok fine point taken...DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY WOULD HAVE SNIFFED NHL ICE IF GARDINER AND KASE were healthy going into camp? No and we both know it...so did Carolina and yet chose not to address it at the AHL level
You bring up Stromwell, Dzingel and MacEachern great..Stromwell...played 44 AHL games 6 years ago for Hartford and then terminated his contract...Dzingel has never been THE MAN but now at age of 31 you expect him to be...MacEachern a 29 year old who has never had more than 25 pts in a season til this year and has 27 this year...That's who you replace Noesen, Poturalski, Leivo with? Ok...
One thing I will 100% agree with is the loss of Warsofsky was huge and no I don't begrudge him for bettering himself...Sheahan is horrible and will be gone at season's end. He signed a 1 yr deal to coach the Wolves and that makes me wonder if these wheels were already in place before that happened because it happened late in the off-season...guessing the Wolves told Carolina that they weren't reupping since Carolina didn't live up to their end of the agreement of signing players to help Chicago. And no the players mentioned weren't signed to help they were signed 4 or 5 days after the beginning of free agency and was what was left. Another guy we haven't mentioned is why did a 23 year old Joey Keane forsake the chance to play in NA and possibly in the NHL to go to the KHL...guarentee it wasn't because Carolina was throwing money at him.

Tell me what players that left Chicago after last years Cup fought their way to an NHL job...outside of Leivo...Noesen and Chatfield don't count for this topic...but on a side note Noesen signed on july 12th of 2022 a full 5 days after the start of free agency so that tells me there weren't a lot of suiters for his talents even with a career high in goals in 21-22...Chatfield signed in january of 22 which also makes it irrelavent to the topic at hand...I'll wait...
My last word on the topic is this I will take the word of the people I KNOW over you...unless you are secretly some sort of Carolina Hurricanes staff member like the owner or GM.

 

[Chrispy]

Leivo, Noesen, Chatfield all fought their way to NHL jobs. Just because it wasn’t in Chicago doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Alex Lyon is fueling the Panthers playoff run. Makes sense he would move on if he was #4 in Carolina’s system.

Regarding de Haan and Gardiner, given Carolina signed Calvin de Haan to a PTO this summer and he played most of the season with Chatfield, it’s reasonable to say Chatfield didnt replace Gardiner’s injury. De Haan did. Chatfield beat out Dylan Coghlan for the RD spot on the third pairing.

Noesen made the team opening night when Kase was healthy, so he wasn’t called up to replace an injured Kase. He made the team, slotted in due to injury, and cemented his spot.

So your argument they wouldn’t have sniffed the roster without those injuries is simply incorrect.

If Carolina is really an outlier in how they deal with their AHL affiliate then Chicago would affiliate with someone else. The fact Chicago plans to go independent gives away that they are the problem. The issues that led to this breakup are the same ones that caused St. Louis to walk (veteran vs prospect prioritization), and likely the same ones causing Vancouver and Vegas to buy their own franchises rather than continue to deal with the Wolves.

Carolina clearly feels it’s possible to win playing their prospects. Hard to argue with the results (Charlotte Calder Cup 2019, Chicago Calder cup 2022.)

Best of luck to Chicago in signing players. I don’t think there are many players who will bypass a 2 way deal from an NHL club to sign a deal to play exclusively for the Wolves for a year. And if they can’t get that 2-way deal, Chicago still needs to compete with European leagues (see Keane, who chose to play in Russia over Chicago.)

 

[NYRfan85]

It's a shame the bridges were burned between Carolina and Charlotte. It was really nice having that I-85 connection (with ECHL Greenville too). But Charlotte has a good partnership going with Florida now, so I don't see them wanting to share again, especially not with Carolina. I think it would be great if they could just add a 33rd team and let Chicago be independent since they don't want to play well with the rest of the league.

 

[GKJ]

Except St. Louis does not own an AHL franchise, and they made it quite clear when selling Peoria over a decade ago that they have no desire to do so.

St. Louis themselves once affiliated with the Wolves. But I’d have to think they’d love to have their affiliate closer.

I think the best amenable scenario, presuming Carolina/Charlotte is closed, would be to finally get teams into Florida, the Blues affiliate with the Checkers, and the Hurricanes affiliate with Syracuse. But I think they’d want at least one more team in the south

 

[GindyDraws]

St. Louis themselves once affiliated with the Wolves. But I’d have to think they’d love to have their affiliate closer.

I think the best amenable scenario, presuming Carolina/Charlotte is closed, would be to finally get teams into Florida, the Blues affiliate with the Checkers, and the Hurricanes affiliate with Syracuse. But I think they’d want at least one more team in the south

All is not lost for the Hurricanes.

If the rumors of the Gladiators going to the AHL are true, then Carolina could join them. Conversely, they could prop up a team in Greensboro where the Carolina Monarchs used to play, although I don't know about the condition of the Coliseum ice plant.

But again, that means 33 teams.

 

[GKJ]

All is not lost for the Hurricanes.

If the rumors of the Gladiators going to the AHL are true, then Carolina could join them. Conversely, they could prop up a team in Greensboro where the Carolina Monarchs used to play, although I don't know about the condition of the Coliseum ice plant.

But again, that means 33 teams.

33 teams should be fine, we’re going to expand again anyways.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

we’re going to expand again anyways.

According to who? Last time I checked, only three groups have put in bids for the last two rounds of expansions. Teams at full price are going around $1b and expansion fees won't be too far below that mark. Unless you have some information the rest of us don't have, the NHL isn't expanding any time soon and neither is the AHL.

 

[GKJ]

According to who? Last time I checked, only three groups have put in bids for the last two rounds of expansions. Teams at full price are going around $1b and expansion fees won't be too far below that mark. Unless you have some information the rest of us don't have, the NHL isn't expanding any time soon and neither is the AHL.

You should stop by the business of hockey board, it’s talked about all the time there. We’ve got ESPN dudes tweeting about Atlanta and Houston, and Friedman reporting about meetings with the owner of the Utah Jazz.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

You should stop by the business of hockey board, it’s talked about all the time there. We’ve got ESPN dudes tweeting about Atlanta and Houston, and Friedman reporting about meetings with the owner of the Utah Jazz.

I saw the discussions you're referencing.

Weekes and Buccigross are the only two big names talking about it and they are both far from reliable sources. Buccigross has had countless instances in the past of predicting supposedly immediate occurrences that never happened, actually had three separate go arounds with University of Illinois' supposed D1 program ready to launch.

Atlanta doesn't have an arena. There have been plenty of arena plans and press conferences, until there are shovels in the ground it doesn't mean anything. Just look at Richmond and any one of a half dozen places over the last year alone. Atlanta doesn't have an ownership group. They haven't had any reliable get together of those factors plus extremely public shows of attraction over an extended time span we saw with Seattle and Vegas. Houston doesn't have a viable owner, the only possible one is Fertitta and the last reliable information was that he said he wasn't willing to pay more than half a million for a NHL team and Daly kicked him out of the meeting.

Friedman reported meetings with the owner of the Jazz and Bettman, but no one ever mentioned expansion. The general consensus was Ryan Smith was trying to buy an existing team in another market. He was one of the final bidders on the Penguins sale and his Real Salt Lake co-owner is the owner of the Devils. Judging how there is currently only one team for sale, and one the NHL has made it very clear no teams are relocating. Friedman's inference was about the potential new facilities if SLC hosts the Winter Olympics. Both of those things are extreme hypotheticals.

So I ask you once again, according to who. Because last time I checked, quoting two demonstrably unreliable sources on Twitter about one market, another one which has had Billy told the sole possible owner to get lost, and then another one which has only been released by Friedman with only inferences about extremely hypothetical possibilities is not evidence. It is barely worth discussing, but since since HFB has the highest proportion of people without critical thinking skills here we are.

 

[GKJ]

I saw the discussions you're referencing.

Weekes and Buccigross are the only two big names talking about it and they are both far from reliable sources. Buccigross has had countless instances in the past of predicting supposedly immediate occurrences that never happened, actually had three separate go arounds with University of Illinois' supposed D1 program ready to launch.

Atlanta doesn't have an arena. There have been plenty of arena plans and press conferences, until there are shovels in the ground it doesn't mean anything. Just look at Richmond and any one of a half dozen places over the last year alone. Atlanta doesn't have an ownership group. They haven't had any reliable get together of those factors plus extremely public shows of attraction over an extended time span we saw with Seattle and Vegas. Houston doesn't have a viable owner, the only possible one is Fertitta and the last reliable information was that he said he wasn't willing to pay more than half a million for a NHL team and Daly kicked him out of the meeting.

Friedman reported meetings with the owner of the Jazz and Bettman, but no one ever mentioned expansion. The general consensus was Ryan Smith was trying to buy an existing team in another market. He was one of the final bidders on the Penguins sale and his Real Salt Lake co-owner is the owner of the Devils. Judging how there is currently only one team for sale, and one the NHL has made it very clear no teams are relocating. Friedman's inference was about the potential new facilities if SLC hosts the Winter Olympics. Both of those things are extreme hypotheticals.

So I ask you once again, according to who. Because last time I checked, quoting two demonstrably unreliable sources on Twitter about one market, another one which has had Billy told the sole possible owner to get lost, and then another one which has only been released by Friedman with only inferences about extremely hypothetical possibilities is not evidence. It is barely worth discussing, but since since HFB has the highest proportion of people without critical thinking skills here we are.

Kevin Weekes isn’t a reliable source? He’s been scooping everyone since getting to ESPN.

Buccigross doesn’t tweet shit for no reason either. It would just be nice if, being in the media, he would actually report on it.

There was no ‘consensus’ on the Friedman report, he simply said that Ryan Smith is in the NHL’s orbit, and specific names aren’t dropped like that, especially by him, for no reason. Everything said after that was speculation, which again, those guys do not do for no reason.

If you don’t accept these forms of reporting, it’s not reliability of the people, it’s because you don’t want to

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Kevin Weekes isn’t a reliable source? He’s been scooping everyone since getting to ESPN.

Buccigross doesn’t tweet shit for no reason either. It would just be nice if, being in the media, he would actually report on it.

There was no ‘consensus’ on the Friedman report, he simply said that Ryan Smith is in the NHL’s orbit, and specific names aren’t dropped like that, especially by him, for no reason. Everything said after that was speculation, which again, those guys do not do for no reason.

If you don’t accept these forms of reporting, it’s not reliability of the people, it’s because you don’t want to

Weekes occasionally has good scoops. He also has mentioned countless potential trade saying they're breaking that never occur. Buccigross will throw out anything saying it is happening soon and it never happens. He doesn't report on it because he knows most of what he's saying will never come to fruition.

It was widely discussed in the media about how he was looking at potentially buying a team since his business partner owns the Devils and he was actively bidding for the Penguins.

If you think that three people talking about two events without massive, public discussions like what we saw with Vegas and Seattle actually is reliable, then you're going to be sorrily disappointed. I know people on HFB were really butthurt whenever Arizona to Houston didn't happen when one or two NHL twitter figureheads tweeted about it and next thing you know Bill Daly is chasing the guy out of a meeting and saying in no uncertain terms that Fertitta was a moron.

 

[GKJ]

Weekes occasionally has good scoops. He also has mentioned countless potential trade saying they're breaking that never occur. Buccigross will throw out anything saying it is happening soon and it never happens. He doesn't report on it because he knows most of what he's saying will never come to fruition.

It was widely discussed in the media about how he was looking at potentially buying a team since his business partner owns the Devils and he was actively bidding for the Penguins.

If you think that three people talking about two events without massive, public discussions like what we saw with Vegas and Seattle actually is reliable, then you're going to be sorrily disappointed. I know people on HFB were really butthurt whenever Arizona to Houston didn't happen when one or two NHL twitter figureheads tweeted about it and next thing you know Bill Daly is chasing the guy out of a meeting and saying in no uncertain terms that Fertitta was a moron.

That is simply untrue about Weekes, the guy has turned it into a meme. We had to give him his own prefix on the main board because he was breaking so much actual news. He’s not a bullshitter. HF and Twitter would be dunking on him constantly if he was.

The Alpharetta arena project is going forward despite nearly nobody knowing about it until like a month ago. The public discussions were obviously not as public as you wanted them to be. And yet we knew about them like a month ago because that’s who said something about it.

One thing I’ve learned in 20 years of being on this board is to trust the insiders, they know a lot more than they tell people considering no sport has so many people afraid to actually report on it.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

That is simply untrue about Weekes, the guy has turned it into a meme. We had to give him his own prefix on the main board because he was breaking so much actual news. He’s not a bullshitter. HF and Twitter would be dunking on him constantly if he was.

The Alpharetta arena project is going forward despite nearly nobody knowing about it until like a month ago. The public discussions were obviously not as public as you wanted them to be. And yet we knew about them like a month ago because that’s who said something about it.

One thing I’ve learned in 20 years of being on this board is to trust the insiders, they know a lot more than they tell people considering no sport has so many people afraid to actually report on it.

I'll direct you to Buccigross announcing on three separate occasions that Illinois will be announcing NCAA D1 hockey soon and then the utter silence when the AD and other school figureheads announced it wasn't happening because they were well short of the money needed to start the program. Trust insiders as much as you want, you had seven or eight of them saying a trade deadline deal was done for the Red Wings acquiring van Riemsdyk. You had plenty of other ones saying Québec will have a team shortly after Vegas. Until there is actual news, quoting someone supposedly plugged in who has inevitably been wrong countless times isn't reliable.

And just because an arena is getting built doesn't mean a team is going there. See the Sprint Center in Kansas City, the old Copp Coliseum in Hamilton.

 

[GKJ]

I'll direct you to Buccigross announcing on three separate occasions that Illinois will be announcing NCAA D1 hockey soon and then the utter silence when the AD and other school figureheads announced it wasn't happening because they were well short of the money needed to start the program. Trust insiders as much as you want, you had seven or eight of them saying a trade deadline deal was done for the Red Wings acquiring van Riemsdyk. You had plenty of other ones saying Québec will have a team shortly after Vegas. Until there is actual news, quoting someone supposedly plugged in who has inevitably been wrong countless times isn't reliable.

And just because an arena is getting built doesn't mean a team is going there. See the Sprint Center in Kansas City, the old Copp Coliseum in Hamilton.

No one said just because an arena is being built that they get a team. In fact, I’ve been one of the ones saying that.

Two insiders, not 7 or 8, one here in Philly, said JVR was being moved, one (Friedman) to Detroit, and then it was adequately refuted. It was reported on why it was believed to be happening, and the reason is that one team thought there was a deal, and another didn’t. By the way, Friedman was the first one who said the Wolves were going independent.

I don’t care that Buccigross got Illinois wrong quite frankly, there’s likely a reason that happened, because things happen. And I also don’t care because it’s one thing and I know they still know more than me. He knew Tortorella was coming here before anyone ‘reported’ on it. The Alpharetta thing was not being mentioned at all, and then he said it, and now they’re doing it. He said it, so did Weekes, and they were right. Sometimes people miss, that is not a common thing, but when they’re right, they’re right. They still don’t put things out there to fecklessly purport bullshit and risk credibility.

And I don’t think anyone ever said Quebec was definitely getting a team. They’ve been there, and have wanted it, and have not been obliged. For someone who seems to be an expert on reporting, you don’t have many of your facts right.