Would the Wolves be independent? Upd: apparently yes, Independence Day

[GindyDraws]

Let's be realistic here; I've always felt that, historically, Rosemont's hockey team has never particularly had any motivation in the affiliation game, even as the AHL has embraced the growing trend of letting the NHL affiliate take control of just about everything, including divisions dictating how many games are played.

So, in this hypothetical scenario (just humor me, please), would the Wolves consider independent status in favor of competing for the Calder Cup and let there be 32 affiliated teams, or would they rather deal with the situation they contend with given there's no other option or interest for an IHL-level hockey league?

I'm interested in the responses.

Click to read more...

 

[JMCx4]

The Wolves' owners could "consider independent status in favor of competing for the Calder Cup" all they want, but 31 other AHL teams AND the NHL would still have to see benefit in such a move. I just can't imagine this being a tenable business arrangement for the majority of the stakeholders.

 

[UticaHockey]

No matter how deep their pockets are how much money would they really be willing to spend to try and win a minor league championship? And realistically the AHL development rule would prevent them from putting an all veteran team on the ice so they would still need to find quality young players that are not on NHL contracts. That pool would be limited to undrafted players and others that were not good enough to earn another NHL contract after their ELC expired. It would not be easy for an independent AHL team to put a competitive team of the ice let alone a championship team under the AHL roster rules.

"In the AHL, player development is a top priority. The American Hockey League and the Professional Hockey Players’ Association have the following development rule in place:
Of the 18 skaters (not counting two goaltenders) that teams may dress for a game, at least 13 must be qualified as “development players.” Of those 13, 12 must have played in 260 or fewer professional games (including AHL, NHL and European elite leagues), and one must have played in 320 or fewer professional games. All calculations for development status are based on regular-season totals as of the start of the season."

 

[Checkers Hockey]

I always thought the Wolves could thrive as an independent team but not in the AHL. IHL 2.0 would have to exist for that to happen.

 

[Casper Marley]

Back when the California invasion took place, the owner of the Norfolk Admirals said he'd be willing to be an independent club. His thinking was that in time, an affiliation would open and he would get back "in". The league refused, saying they would not assign home dates to ANY independent franchise. Essentially, he sold his franchise with a figurative gun to his head. Of course, the NHL was completely responsible for the West Coast movement, and Andrews, essentially being the mannequin on Bettman's lap, went along with all of it.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Let's be realistic here; I've always felt that, historically, Rosemont's hockey team has never particularly had any motivation in the affiliation game, even as the AHL has embraced the growing trend of letting the NHL affiliate take control of just about everything, including divisions dictating how many games are played.

So, in this hypothetical scenario (just humor me, please), would the Wolves consider independent status in favor of competing for the Calder Cup and let there be 32 affiliated teams, or would they rather deal with the situation they contend with given there's no other option or interest for an IHL-level hockey league?

I'm interested in the responses.

there were independent for awhile

 

[adsfan]

there were independent for awhile

I only remember one independent in the AHL in the last 20 years and it wasn't Chicago.

It lasted 1 season as a temporary franchise before the team bought a dormant franchise.

Independent is defined by me as not a NHL affiliate.


Another definition for independent would be ownership.

There are 11 AHL teams with separate owners including Milwaukee and Chicago.

 

[Checkers Hockey]

I only remember one independent in the AHL in the last 20 years and it wasn't Chicago.

Which team do you speak of?

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I believe the last independent club was the 1994-1995 Ice Cats. If you want to count the IHL as part of the history of the ahl it would probably be the 2000-2001 Aeros.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I believe the last independent club was the 1994-1995 Ice Cats. If you want to count the IHL as part of the history of the ahl it would probably be the 2000-2001 Aeros.

I don't know about the other IHL teams in 2000-01 but the Manitoba Moose were independent right up until they joined the AHL in 2001-02 and hooked up with the Canucks.

I remember it because the Moose's independence at the outset was a bit of a marketing tactic for the team when they first set up in Winnipeg. The idea was that they were not anyone's farm team, which would have been a tough pill to swallow for a former NHL market forced to get used to being in the minors. Some folks didn't like when the Canucks affiliation was established given that up until 5 years earlier, the Canucks were Winnipeg's rival.

That said, being independent didn't help the Moose much. They were a pretty mediocre team during that era. The team didn't get good until they started getting a lot of good Canucks prospects.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

The IHL had many teams that has partial affiliations. The Wolves for example had an arrangement with the Islanders. There will never be another unaffiliated team in the AHL. The league forced the Admirals to sell their team because, while the by-laws do not specifically forbid an unaffiliated team, the league said they would refuse to schedule them any games.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I believe the last independent club was the 1994-1995 Ice Cats. If you want to count the IHL as part of the history of the ahl it would probably be the 2000-2001 Aeros.

Texas was the franchise that was being referenced here as a "conditional" franchise, Centrum, when Iowa's Chops were leveraged in violation of AHL bylaws..... Worcester was not independent because the the League had passed the rule that franchises had to have an NHL affiliation in place prior to being approved for membership, same way the IHL clubs were admitted in 2001, and why St. Louis signed on three months into that 1994-1995 season otherwise Worcester likely never gets a piece of the AHL after Boe relocated the Indians to Worcester.

 

[adsfan]

Which team do you speak of?

Hutch is correct. It was Texas.

 

[axecrew]

There is a story floating around out there on markerzone.com that the Chicago Wolves have sent an email to player agents telling them of their intentions of playing as an independent starting next season. Rumor...true...BS...only time will tell I guess but I will be reaching out to someone I know to ask them. An Agent I am friends with.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Wolves pining for the IHL days.

 

[Mike Jones]

Oh - I thought they were moving to Independence - just outside Kansas City.

I could be wrong but I think that's where the ECHL's Mavericks play.

 

[HisIceness]

Well if that's the case then I have the perfect scenario.

Dundon and Khan put aside their differences and partner up again. The Atlanta Gladiators upgrade to the AHL and become Florida's affiliate. The ECHL Gladiators relocate to Greensboro.

Checkers/Hurricanes right a wrong, Checkers finally have a close-ish opponent (the only time they had one was one year of being in the same conference as Norfolk), Atlanta has one too, Greensboro gets a return of Hockey.

The perfect scenario that won't happen, but should. Really though I just want to see my teams prospects in my town again, never should have broken up to begin with but here's the chance to right a wrong.

 

[gstommylee]

Well if that's the case then I have the perfect scenario.

Dundon and Khan put aside their differences and partner up again. The Atlanta Gladiators upgrade to the AHL and become Florida's affiliate. The ECHL Gladiators relocate to Greensboro.

Checkers/Hurricanes right a wrong, Checkers finally have a close-ish opponent (the only time they had one was one year of being in the same conference as Norfolk), Atlanta has one too, Greensboro gets a return of Hockey.

The perfect scenario that won't happen, but should. Really though I just want to see my teams prospects in my town again, never should have broken up to begin with but here's the chance to right a wrong.

There isn't going to be 33 ahl teams. There always been 1 AHL team per NHL team.

 

[GKJ]

With the AHL veteran rules, how would a fully independent team ice a complete roster? They can only have 6 veterans.

 

[aparch]

With the AHL veteran rules, how would a fully independent team ice a complete roster? They can only have 6 veterans.

Goalies are exempt.

They can ice a team full of college graduates who never got NHL or AHL contracts, guys who played a couple years in Europe and are home sick, and a bunch of career ECHL'ers. The vets can be lifer AHL'ers and NHL players on their way out the door.

No salary cap nor roster cap means they can have as many people as they want on the payroll.

Just for games, they're limited to 13 skaters with less than 260 games played and 1 skater under 320 games. The remaining spots are unlimited.

 

[BigZ65]

Goalies are exempt.

They can ice a team full of college graduates who never got NHL or AHL contracts, guys who played a couple years in Europe and are home sick, and a bunch of career ECHL'ers. The vets can be lifer AHL'ers and NHL players on their way out the door.

No salary cap nor roster cap means they can have as many people as they want on the payroll.

Just for games, they're limited to 13 skaters with less than 260 games played and 1 skater under 320 games. The remaining spots are unlimited.

I think they'll have a real hard time basically competing without any guys drafted in the top half of the NHL Draft from a NHL prospect pool.

But maybe they can convince some of the higher-end college free agents to join them for a year or two audition for a NHL deal if they give them a much higher salary in the AHL than they'd get on a two-way NHL deal.

 

[GKJ]

Goalies are exempt.

They can ice a team full of college graduates who never got NHL or AHL contracts, guys who played a couple years in Europe and are home sick, and a bunch of career ECHL'ers. The vets can be lifer AHL'ers and NHL players on their way out the door.

No salary cap nor roster cap means they can have as many people as they want on the payroll.

Just for games, they're limited to 13 skaters with less than 260 games played and 1 skater under 320 games. The remaining spots are unlimited.

It’s not a matter of having as many people as they want, it’s having enough of them. Just being a haven of college players no one signs, and then to be competitive. And then to have to keep doing that year after year. Guys who leave to go overseas, a lot of them do that because there’s not enough veteran spots in the AHL. Plus it pays more.

 

[G50]

Well if that's the case then I have the perfect scenario.

Dundon and Khan put aside their differences and partner up again. The Atlanta Gladiators upgrade to the AHL and become Florida's affiliate. The ECHL Gladiators relocate to Greensboro.

Checkers/Hurricanes right a wrong, Checkers finally have a close-ish opponent (the only time they had one was one year of being in the same conference as Norfolk), Atlanta has one too, Greensboro gets a return of Hockey.

The perfect scenario that won't happen, but should. Really though I just want to see my teams prospects in my town again, never should have broken up to begin with but here's the chance to right a wrong.

"right a wrong"? Yeah no, there was no wrong committed except when they took that 2019 cup and infuriated a Canes fan in doing so.

It was clearly destiny that the Canes and Wolves got together to give back to the fan who the Wolves tried so hard to win for.

 

[axecrew]

Wolves pining for the IHL days.

I don't know that they are "pining" for the IHL days as much as they are sick of being told one thing by the parent club and then having another thing done. Multiple times over the years they have been told a certain player was to be sent here only for the parent club to keep that player up even though they were outplayed by another player.
Example...2021 pandemic season they take players from 2 NHL teams to help out another team...2022 Carolina goes all out to win a Calder cup in Chicago because they believe it benefits their prospects to learn to win and play deep into the playoffs...it works Wolves win 3rd Calder cup and 5th overall championship.
2023...Wolves roster has an unprecedented turnover of players leaving for other organizations but no one knows why...I talked to an unnamed person from another organization who is in the room per say and find out that Carolina(owner probably) tells the Wolves if you want to have these players back...no problem...but we won't pay for them. If you want them then you are going to pay for them yourselves. Thus leading to the Wolves getting players, who are marginal at best( see cheap), on loan or signing players who don't want to be here because of the circumstances...

 

[tigervixxxen]

And how exactly is the AHL allowing this?