Would a Vegas SC be grounds for firing DT?

[vendetta]

funny, cause george mcphee seems like he can. and its not even as if he thought he was building a winner this year, or he wouldn't have let teams bribe him not to take the best player available. yet he still wanted one year of march rather than a 7 yr cost controlled asset. does that re-open the debate?

Yes cause he loaded up on picks already and had plenty of money to resign March. His whole expansion draft was based on futures. Not even remotely comparable scenarios. Thanks for trying tho lol

 

[Jakeybonz]

Yes cause he loaded up on picks already and had plenty of money to resign March. His whole expansion draft was based on futures. Not even remotely comparable scenarios. Thanks for trying tho lol

we have plenty of money to sign march as well. he's an all star type player who only wanted 5 mil per. if we can't give that out, we don't belong in the nhl. I think u meant thanks for succeeding.

 

[vendetta]

we have plenty of money to sign march as well. he's an all star type player who only wanted 5 mil per. if we can't give that out, we don't belong in the nhl. I think u meant thanks for succeeding.

Internal cap. Try to keep up. We have upcoming players that can develope onto top 6 for much cheaper. Yes the internal is
Real

 

[Jakeybonz]

Internal cap. Try to keep up. We have upcoming players that can develope onto top 6 for much cheaper. Yes the internal is
Real

never said it was fake. u think I don't hold owners responsible for not spending the cap? have u ever read anything I've ever written? that is the foremost problem. now for the secondary problem: managing a budget conscious team. u do this by keeping 30 goal scorers on 750k contracts who don't demand more than 5 mil even when producing at elite levels for back to back seasons. why on earth would we want to maybe possibly sort of develop a player into the top 6 when we have a non greedy awesome fwd already there? telling me to keep up in this scenario is like ekblad telling bure to pick up the slack.

 

[vendetta]

never said it was fake. u think I don't hold owners responsible for not spending the cap? have u ever read anything I've ever written? that is the foremost problem. now for the secondary problem: managing a budget conscious team. u do this by keeping 30 goal scorers on 750k contracts who don't demand more than 5 mil even when producing at elite levels for back to back seasons. why on earth would we want to maybe possibly sort of develop a player into the top 6 when we have a non greedy awesome fwd already there? telling me to keep up in this scenario is like ekblad telling bure to pick up the slack.

On a budget team u absolutely do not keep one year of a player instead of a first round cost controlled assett. That’s something u do if your close to winning a cup. This also happened before marchy went off this year. Everyone expected him to regress too. Either way there is more moving parts to this than u are realizing or your just flat out ignoring which management doesn’t have the luxury of doing

 

[Jakeybonz]

On a budget team u absolutely do not keep one year of a player instead of a first round cost controlled assett. That’s something u do if your close to winning a cup. This also happened before marchy went off this year. Everyone expected him to regress too. Either way there is more moving parts to this than u are realizing or your just flat out ignoring which management doesn’t have the luxury of doing

no one is ignoring the moving parts. they have been laid out to u ad nauseum by a million people. some things are kind of grey area type situations. this simply isn't one of those. it was crazy to me when some people defended this move at the time it occured. its positively astounding that there's a single person left defending it now. it reminds me of the people who still think ojs innocent. there are complex hockey issues to debate out there. is defending handing a stanley cup berth to an expansion team really the hill u wanna die on?

 

[vendetta]

no one is ignoring the moving parts. they have been laid out to u ad nauseum by a million people. some things are kind of grey area type situations. this simply isn't one of those. it was crazy to me when some people defended this move at the time it occured. its positively astounding that there's a single person left defending it now. it reminds me of the people who still think ojs innocent. there are complex hockey issues to debate out there. is defending handing a stanley cup berth to an expansion team really the hill u wanna die on?

It’s astounding that u Think Tallon just wanted to get rid of two players to f*** the organinzion instead of realizing their was something going on behind these moves. It’s actually quite laughable.no one is defending these moves. But the blame doesn’t fall on Tallon

 

[Jakeybonz]

It’s astounding that u Think Tallon just wanted to get rid of two players to **** the organinzion instead of realizing their was something going on behind these moves. It’s actually quite laughable.no one is defending these moves. But the blame doesn’t fall on Tallon

the blame of mismanaging the team doesn't fall on the manager. ok. in any case I'm not saying tallon purposely tried to f*** the team and neither is anyone else. I'm saying he's an imcompetant dumbshit who knows nothing about running a hockey team. I literally can not fathom a single other gm in the nhl doing some of the terrible things he's done. and I can imagine just about all of them doing the few good things he's done. I'm not saying the man is mentally Pejorative Slured. I'm just saying that when u have 31 gms, one of them has to be the 31st best gm. and I'm saying that just happens to be ours.

 

[Brokin]

never said it was fake. u think I don't hold owners responsible for not spending the cap? have u ever read anything I've ever written? that is the foremost problem. now for the secondary problem: managing a budget conscious team. u do this by keeping 30 goal scorers on 750k contracts who don't demand more than 5 mil even when producing at elite levels for back to back seasons. why on earth would we want to maybe possibly sort of develop a player into the top 6 when we have a non greedy awesome fwd already there? telling me to keep up in this scenario is like ekblad telling bure to pick up the slack.

I've said this before. IMO, The supposed internal Cap was to keep a tight leash on the unpredictable Tallon after bringing him back once again. Viola trusts him about as far as he can throw him because of the millions he has pissed away. Vincent painted himself into a corner by not thinking ahead on what his plan would be if the "computer boys" failed. Hence he needed a GM with the credibility around the league with the Expansion Draft coming up.......and Tallon was the only asset he had without starting a search for a new GM. It was time to eat crow and bite the bullet.

It was never a hard Cap since it was expanded to $68M during the season. You are absolutely correct in your assessment that when you have a bird in the hand, you don't boot it out of the nest because maybe some young prospects may or may not develop into a similar player and you have to reserve the future Cap space. That would be like trading a guy like Borg next off season if he scores 30 because we have to keep the Cap Space fluid for future generations of prospects.

 

[Bure1096]

Who promoted Tallon? Who hired Rowe and computer boys? Who fired training/equiptment crew? Who fired Gallant?

 

[Brokin]

Who promoted Tallon? Who hired Rowe and computer boys? Who fired training/equiptment crew? Who fired Gallant?

Is anybody here giving Viola a pass? What's your point?

 

[Bure1096]

Is anybody here giving Viola a pass? What's your point?

The point that vendetta and myself are trying to make is that the decisions of the expansion draft were that of ownership. Meddling ownership plagues South Florida. Hell look at the Dolphins and Marlins.

While I can see your point in reeling Tallon in spending wise, Vinnie had buyers remorse after his plans went South quick. He sure didn't have a problem letting his own men spend.

 

[Brokin]

The point that vendetta and myself are trying to make is that the decisions of the expansion draft we're that of ownership. Meddling ownership plagues South Florida. Hell look at the Dolphins and Marlins.

While I can see your point in reeling Tallon in spending wise, Vinnie had buyers remorse after his plans went South quick. He sure didn't have a problem letting his own men spend.

So you and your sidekick believe that Viola issued a mandate to move March so they could get rid of Smith's contract?

 

[Bure1096]

So you and your sidekick believe that Viola issued a mandate to move March so they could get rid of Smith's contract?

In not so many words, yes. But without knowing what went on behind the scenes people won't understand.

 

[Brokin]

In not so many words, yes. But without knowing what went on behind the scenes people won't understand.

That is just rehashing the Voice My Opinion/Soupy debate which I think VMO won easily. Viola is many things but when he publicly says "Dale has always had the final say" after reinstalling him as GM, he gave him 100% authority to do what he had to do for the Expansion Draft. IMO, this was likely a condition Tallon gave him if he was to take the job back. So no I don't believe Dale was reinstalled as the GM to be Viola's mouthpiece and take the fall...........Tallon's dumb but not that dumb. No sir, this decision was all Tallon's based on revenge. You can look no further than his statement up in Montreal with Bergevin as he crowed something to the fact that it's a good thing he's back in charge as some mistakes were made and he's here to fix them.

 

[Bure1096]

Yea... Ok. Sounds like you've never worked in management before. Dale has final say? Hahaha who does he work for?

 

[Brokin]

Yea... Ok. Sounds like you've never worked in management before. Dale has final say? Hahaha who does he work for?

Somebody always has to answer to a higher being if they make a serious mistake but that doesn't mean they don't have 100% control within their management space. There are many GM's in the NHL that have 100% control over transactions and movement of players and it's written into their contracts. Vinik in Tampa has admitted that Yzerman doesn't have to seek his permission for any transaction. He is 100% in control.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

I am now drinking some Tallon Kool-Aid and have rented the Manchurian Candidate to watch before hiring a therapist to understand your point of view.

The reason why it seems like some people are defending Tallon is because we have to hear about this Vegas trade everywhere, and yet when that 2016 offseason happened and people questioned it, "it was like how dare you question it". And the very things that we said we were afraid happening, happened, and then people had the audacity to not want to let us have our outrage over the situation. One situation actually took us down in the standings, and one situation is speculated to have lowered us in the standings even though we improved in the standings even with that trade.

 

[Brokin]

The reason why it seems like some people are defending Tallon is because we have to hear about this Vegas trade everywhere, and yet when that 2016 offseason happened and people questioned it, "it was like how dare you question it". And the very things that we said we were afraid happening, happened, and then people had the audacity to not want to let us have our outrage over the situation. One situation actually took us down in the standings, and one situation is speculated to have lowered us in the standings even though we improved in the standings even with that trade.

Through all the humps and bumps the one thing as you say has remained a constant.......the core. Therefore, the team will rise and fall with them but you can't exclude circumstances beyond control that can and will clip their wings along the way. I've never been a Tallon fan as a GM because of all the reasons I outlined. I also am not a fan of Viola and his ownership. He is everything you don't want to see from an owner. Just a meddling, entitled, impatient, short tempered, nasty human being. That said, the team has a chance to right the ship just because of their scouting department and use of committee decision making. If Viola and Tallon can ever get comfortable with stepping back and letting them make decisions through consensus..........then the team stands a chance to do something in the next few years. Just get us a goalie before the sand runs out on Lu's hourglass.

 

[Crossbar]

The reason why it seems like some people are defending Tallon is because we have to hear about this Vegas trade everywhere, and yet when that 2016 offseason happened and people questioned it, "it was like how dare you question it". And the very things that we said we were afraid happening, happened, and then people had the audacity to not want to let us have our outrage over the situation. One situation actually took us down in the standings, and one situation is speculated to have lowered us in the standings even though we improved in the standings even with that trade.

Back then people were complaining about ready-to-retire Campbell taking off for Chicago, Mitchell already in retirement, Kulikov not doing jack in Buffalo (healthy scratched in these playoffs for Loserpeg too), Gudbranson being the joke of all of Canucks Nation, as well as the backup and a few AHL scrubs all leaving here......equating to blowing up everything.

OTOH, Tallon gives away not one, but TWO difference makers in our best playoff performer Smith and our leading goal scorer March FOR NOTHING. He doesn't re-sign Huby/Barky's BFF Jagr (not that I supported signing him, but this is the Mitchell equivalent I guess) and wastes money buying out Jokinen (again, didn't want him here, but he was part of that division winning team, correct?) and pretty much kept the entire defense core minus Demers completely intact and even PROTECTED THEM that everyone here constantly bashed and complained about DAILY.....and??? Leave Tallon alone.

Of course we'll hear the "we almost made the playoffs!". Guess what, Devils and Avs finished way worse than us last season and found a way. Next year we could be the Lightning/Jets or Oilers/Hawks/Habs of this season, you never know. All I care about is the asset managing when it comes to the GM of the team and Tallon is horrible.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

Through all the humps and bumps the one thing as you say has remained a constant.......the core. Therefore, the team will rise and fall with them but you can't exclude circumstances beyond control that can and will clip their wings along the way. I've never been a Tallon fan as a GM because of all the reasons I outlined. I also am not a fan of Viola and his ownership. He is everything you don't want to see from an owner. Just a meddling, entitled, impatient, short tempered, nasty human being. That said, the team has a chance to right the ship just because of their scouting department and use of committee decision making. If Viola and Tallon can ever get comfortable with stepping back and letting them make decisions through consensus..........then the team stands a chance to do something in the next few years. Just get us a goalie before the sand runs out on Lu's hourglass.

If there's anything good that Viola has been doing as an owner then it's that he's been trying to get rid off Tallon as a representative of the old boys club albeit with little success so far. Like you said, Tallon is an incompetent goof that judges whether a particular decision is good or not based on did he come up with it. The only reason why ppl still consider Tallon adding something to the mgmt is that somehow being on the draft podium is related to his ability to scout talent. The guy picked Crouse instead of several other more talented players and everyone, including the talking heads at TSN, Sportsnet, etc were in an agreement that Tallon shit the bed. Now the issue lately is that he can't even keep the drafted talented in the stable. The guy is a walking disaster, hemorrhages assets to other teams like no one else the business has ever seen.

 

[Jakeybonz]

Back then people were complaining about ready-to-retire Campbell taking off for Chicago, Mitchell already in retirement, Kulikov not doing jack in Buffalo (healthy scratched in these playoffs for Loserpeg too), Gudbranson being the joke of all of Canucks Nation, as well as the backup and a few AHL scrubs all leaving here......equating to blowing up everything.

OTOH, Tallon gives away not one, but TWO difference makers in our best playoff performer Smith and our leading goal scorer March FOR NOTHING. He doesn't re-sign Huby/Barky's BFF Jagr (not that I supported signing him, but this is the Mitchell equivalent I guess) and wastes money buying out Jokinen (again, didn't want him here, but he was part of that division winning team, correct?) and pretty much kept the entire defense core minus Demers completely intact and even PROTECTED THEM that everyone here constantly bashed and complained about DAILY.....and??? Leave Tallon alone.

Of course we'll hear the "we almost made the playoffs!". Guess what, Devils and Avs finished way worse than us last season and found a way. Next year we could be the Lightning/Jets or Oilers/Hawks/Habs of this season, you never know. All I care about is the asset managing when it comes to the GM of the team and Tallon is horrible.

100% correct. cue a swarm of wrong people to throw hate at u

 

[letsgrowcactus]

If there's anything good that Viola has been doing as an owner then it's that he's been trying to get rid off Tallon as a representative of the old boys club albeit with little success so far. Like you said, Tallon is an incompetent goof that judges whether a particular decision is good or not based on did he come up with it. The only reason why ppl still consider Tallon adding something to the mgmt is that somehow being on the draft podium is related to his ability to scout talent. The guy picked Crouse instead of several other more talented players and everyone, including the talking heads at TSN, Sportsnet, etc were in an agreement that Tallon **** the bed. Now the issue lately is that he can't even keep the drafted talented in the stable. The guy is a walking disaster, hemorrhages assets to other teams like no one else the business has ever seen.

Okay, now that's not true. I mean most of us here didn't want him, but multiple scouting agencies had Crouse in the top10; I think some rankings had him as high as top6. Bob MacKenzie's final rankings on TSN had him 7th.
Don't get me wrong, it was a bad pick especially in context of the guys still on board, but there were scouts who liked Crouse back then.

 

[coopdaloop123]

I think it's a little unfair to judge the Marchy/Smith move just yet.

It was a play made for the long term, not the short term. In letting both players go, the Panthers essentially freed up $10 million over the next four-ish seasons (assuming Marchy stayed and got a similar deal that he signed this year). If the Panthers believe they can spend that money better in a different way, that's great. They already committed $4 million of that open money to Evgenii Dadonov last summer, which leaves $6 million hypothetical dollars to spend however they'd like over either this offseason or beyond. It's nice that Smith and Marchy are having success in VGK (both good dudes), but I don't believe the end result from the move on the Panthers' side of things is fully formed just yet.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[vendetta]

If there's anything good that Viola has been doing as an owner then it's that he's been trying to get rid off Tallon as a representative of the old boys club albeit with little success so far. Like you said, Tallon is an incompetent goof that judges whether a particular decision is good or not based on did he come up with it. The only reason why ppl still consider Tallon adding something to the mgmt is that somehow being on the draft podium is related to his ability to scout talent. The guy picked Crouse instead of several other more talented players and everyone, including the talking heads at TSN, Sportsnet, etc were in an agreement that Tallon **** the bed. Now the issue lately is that he can't even keep the drafted talented in the stable. The guy is a walking disaster, hemorrhages assets to other teams like no one else the business has ever seen.

Again all not true whatsoever. Which assets does he hemorrhage that isn’t money related? Crouse the jury is still out on and let’s not pretend Tallon is the only gm that doesn’t get the best player in his spot. We can go thru the list of gms and picks and I can now u down with ease on that front but it’s a waste of time since anyone with any knowledge knows this. And the keeping the drafted guy in the stable is more drivel coming out u with absolutely no evidence of that all because the cpu boys took mascherin. Once again your points got dismantled and u have absolutely no evidence to any of them. Pure baseless speculation [mod]