Player Discussion Worst Mistakes Made By Rangers

[One Winged Angel]

If we are rubbing salt into all of the old wounds, let's remember trading a first round pick for the privilege of Michel Bergeron.

You mean trading a 1st round pick for a head coach who hadn’t won a cup isn’t a good idea?

Who would’ve thought.

 

[SA16]

What is so hard to understand that leverage has very little to do with how many teams are competing to acquire a player when the other team does not need to trade him? The Rangers were the only ones in on MSL. So what? The Lightning could have just kept him for their run if they didn't get what they want. The Canes could have also held on to Staal (not that they were in a playoff run) if they didn't get what they wanted. Teams don't just give players away for nothing if they get a bad offer.

 

[True Blue]

You mean trading a 1st round pick for a head coach who hadn’t won a cup isn’t a good idea?

Who would’ve thought.

Speaking of coaches and worse mistakes, let's remember hiring Ted Sator. Which directly led to Pav walking off the team.

 

[One Winged Angel]

What is so hard to understand that leverage has very little to do with how many teams are competing to acquire a player when the other team does not need to trade him? The Rangers were the only ones in on MSL. So what? The Lightning could have just kept him for their run if they didn't get what they want. The Canes could have also held on to Staal (not that they were in a playoff run) if they didn't get what they wanted. Teams don't just give players away for nothing if they get a bad offer.

While normally I’d agree with you, MSL asked for a trade and specifically to the Rangers because at the time, his offseason home was in CT. He was most likely pissed that Yzerman left him off team Canada’s roster for the 2014 Olympics at Sochi. He was still a top scorer in the league and was scoring at about a point per game pace when he was dealt here.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Speaking of coaches and worse mistakes, let's remember hiring Ted Sator. Which directly led to Pav walking off the team.

A little before my time, but my uncle HATED that move with a passion. He was a fan of Pavelich.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

More accurately we traded for Lafontaine to replace Messier.

That was when the Rangers first dipped their toes in the "maybe this guy wont get any more concussions!" pool. Always a solid move.

Yeah, thats actually what happened. Although the Skrudland and Keane signings came in the window where management convinced themselves that it was bottom 6 grit that was the missing ingredient.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but the next several years of Rangers hockey hinged on them signing Sakic to that offer sheet once Messier bolted. The Avs were in the process of financing a new arena and nobody thought they could match the Rangers offer sheet. Until they did.

It's difficult to pinpoint any other events that changed the trajectory of the Ranger's franchise more than this one.

 

[True Blue]

It's difficult to pinpoint any other events that changed the trajectory of the Ranger's franchise more than this one.

Trading Rick Middelton?

And if we are theorizing, we always go back to 1994. If Smith held firm on Kennan and not made the deals, would the Rangers have won the Cup anyway? Imagine that team going forward with a young Amonte, Weight and Marchant.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Trading Rick Middelton?

And if we are theorizing, we always go back to 1994. If Smith held firm on Kennan and not made the deals, would the Rangers have won the Cup anyway? Imagine that team going forward with a young Amonte, Weight and Marchant.

I think the “what if?” factor is higher with the 93 and 94 trades. They outscored the Devils 20-8 in the regular season before the trades. The Devils and Canucks weren’t fast teams and they had trouble with teams who were faster.

I think a higher powered Ranger offense would have ran right through those two teams. Weight finally found himself at center that year. Having Kovalev be able to play wing full time with Weight and Larmer would have given them extra offense. Olczyk would have seen more prominent minutes. They had enough grinders and depth. Those trades didn’t need to be made.

We know what Middleton was. Would he have put them over the top? I’d lean towards no.

 

[Edge]

We do this in every thread already, it doesn't need its own.

Jesus, it's practically a 24-7 on-demand, streaming service.

 

[Tawnos]

Trading Rick Middelton?

And if we are theorizing, we always go back to 1994. If Smith held firm on Kennan and not made the deals, would the Rangers have won the Cup anyway? Imagine that team going forward with a young Amonte, Weight and Marchant.

Nitpick, but Weight was traded before Keenan was coach.

Also, if you’re going to wonder out loud about the 94 deadline trades, you also have to wonder out loud about whether Turcotte and Patrick are on the team all year too... and therefore no Larmer.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Nitpick, but Weight was traded before Keenan was coach.

Also, if you’re going to wonder out loud about the 94 deadline trades, you also have to wonder out loud about whether Turcotte and Patrick are on the team all year too... and therefore no Larmer.

While the Rangers were forming a deep team in the early 90's, I don't spend much time lamenting about what could have been simply because they won it in '94. The pressure was so great back then that I think any of us would've sold our soul to not hear 1940 again. The problem, moreso, is the Rangers just did about everything wrong after that point up until the lockout.

 

[Bluto]

There were some baffling trades that came after the cup anyway.
Trading zubov was completely moronic.

 

[True Blue]

Also, if you’re going to wonder out loud about the 94 deadline trades, you also have to wonder out loud about whether Turcotte and Patrick are on the team all year too... and therefore no Larmer.

I focused on the deadline. I would argue that Larmer was fairly integral to the team.

 

[Tawnos]

I focused on the deadline. I would argue that Larmer was fairly integral to the team.

I would argue that Noonan, Matteau, and MacTavish were integral to the Cup. Anderson, only in the Final.

But my point is that you can't say "if Smith had held firm on Keenan" and ignore another deal that Keenan brought about.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Trading Rick Middelton?

And if we are theorizing, we always go back to 1994. If Smith held firm on Kennan and not made the deals, would the Rangers have won the Cup anyway? Imagine that team going forward with a young Amonte, Weight and Marchant.

Yep on RM, nope on 94, necessary moves for guys that had the balls. Gartner and all.

 

[CHGoalie27]

There were some baffling trades that came after the cup anyway.
Trading zubov was completely moronic.

This is what I came to answer the op with.

 

[Dijock94]

1. Everyone wanted Fowler at the draft. Tarasenko was only a "target" later on for most fans.
2. It wasn't Boyle over Stralman, it was Girardi over Stralman. Boyle was needed to bring offense from the blueline which Stralman didn't bring with 38 points in 3 full seasons with us. Nobody could have predicted he'd hit more points in a single season after moving to Tampa
3. Girardi was the wrong player to buy out that summer. We all know that
4. Hagelin and Talbot had minimal value for different reasons.

Hagelin:
- RFA
- 3rd line winger
- on a team without cap space to sign him to an extension

Talbot:
- Backup goalie
- Signed to a 1-year contract which means contract talks cannot happen until Jan 1st of that season
- In an off-season with younger, cheaper, cost-controlled goalies available (Lehner, Jones)

Let's not pretend we could have gotten more for Hagelin and Talbot because that's simply not the case

I was hoping we would take Tarasenko, because at the time if my mind serves me right we had Del Zotto coming off his 19yo season with us.

I wanted to extend Girardi and Staal I won’t pretend I didn’t, but we let Stralman walk and signed Boyle at the exact same cap hit. So in my mind I felt they wanted the offensive element from Boyle over the steadiness of Stralman.

And to not get anything even remotely serviceable from Hagelin and Talbot still sucks. But yea their value wasn’t great, not claiming it was, but we should’ve gotten something in return for them.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I was hoping we would take Tarasenko, because at the time if my mind serves me right we had Del Zotto coming off his 19yo season with us.

I wanted to extend Girardi and Staal I won’t pretend I didn’t, but we let Stralman walk and signed Boyle at the exact same cap hit. So in my mind I felt they wanted the offensive element from Boyle over the steadiness of Stralman.

And to not get anything even remotely serviceable from Hagelin and Talbot still sucks. But yea their value wasn’t great, not claiming it was, but we should’ve gotten something in return for them.

We did get something in return for Talbot and Hagelin. Picks and in Hagelin's case a cost-controlled, cheap prospect with upside. It didn't work out for Etem, but the value on the day of the trade was fair considering the situation

 

[Edge]

And Hagelin is another one of those contracts that worked well for the other team in year one, but went downhill steadily from there.

We talk about some of the contracts we’ve hated, but I don’t think we give enough credit to this front office for some of the long term contracts it’s avoided as well.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

And Hagelin is another one of those contracts that worked well for the other team in year one, but went downhill steadily from there.

We talk about some of the contracts we’ve hated, but I don’t think we give enough credit to this front office for some of the long term contracts it’s avoided as well.

It's human nature. It's easier to focus on the bad things that happen, instead of the bad things that were avoided. Nobody ever talks about the fires that are prevented, but we can go on a tirade for days when a forest actually burns down.

 

[JHS]

We did get something in return for Talbot and Hagelin. Picks and in Hagelin's case a cost-controlled, cheap prospect with upside. It didn't work out for Etem, but the value on the day of the trade was fair considering the situation

Not one of the worst or impactful trades ever but that Hagelin for Emerson Etem trade looks absolutely pathetic in hindsight. Etem is probably selling real estate these days while Hagelin continues to have productive minutes in the NHL and would be exactly the type of players I’d love to be a leader during this rebuild!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not one of the worst or impactful trades ever but that Hagelin for Emerson Etem trade looks absolutely pathetic in hindsight. Etem is probably selling real estate these days while Hagelin continues to have productive minutes in the NHL and would be exactly the type of players I’d love to be a leader during this rebuild!

At 4m, Hagelin is never worth his contract

 

[pld459666]

Letting Ray Sheppard walk after a nice 24 goal season in NY

 

[kinger8998]

AV did the job in his first 2 seasons, but starting in 2015-2016, something went wrong. the way he misused eric staal, failed to wak back G’s and Staal’s ice time (not bench them, they could still play, just not top mins like in 13-14 and earlier), and his obsession with playing his toys (ie: glass&mcleod) was god awful. thats why i consider not firing him after 16-17 to be a massive mistake. we elected to pin the problem on the core (ie: stepan) and not on AV’s awful usage.

kind of related, but otherwise unrelated question....did i imagine this or was mark messier and option as coach before we hired vingeault?

 

[One Winged Angel]

I focused on the deadline. I would argue that Larmer was fairly integral to the team.

I’d agree. He helped balanced them out and was a good two way winger. He helped Kovalev big time.