Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets select D Josh Morrissey (1/13)
- Thread starter Hank Chinaski
- Start date
GJF
Beaver Jedi
I consider trading and UFA signings something completely different to drafting. You know the players and you can watch just as much about him and every other player in the league to get your own informed opinion about him. You see the whole picture and you're able to compare what was given away or paid for what he offers to the team and did in the recent past.
But drafting is totally different. You scout a player for maybe a year or even longer, you speak to him and try to figure out his personality. Even for professionels it's very hard to make the right decision and to see the whole picture - every comparable player on the same level, not only hockey skills but also character and what is going on in the players mind. And after all: Is he even motivated to play for your franchise or will he leave the city at the first opportunity?
How can you say your opinion or information, based on let's say 10 drafting reports, following the scoring race in CHL leagues and watching some games of your favorite prospects once in a while is better than that of people doing nothing else for their living? Because let's be honest, 80-90% of people don't have a bigger picture about the kid they say "know so well". Even if they do, they probably lack a looooot of informations about other players. And other players could be way better than that one player you know so much about but you can't know that your player isn't the best because you don't have enough information about the others.
That's exactly what happened with the Scheifele and Morrissey pick. That's the reason why so many people are like "WUAAASTTATATATTTTTT?????????" at the first place.
In Europe, scouting younger players is totally different and I don't think it's even a fair comparison. As an Arsenal fan, I know what I'm talking about. We are one of the most successful teams regarding young players at the age of 16-18, coming to our academy and play their way up to the first squad.
When a prospect is brought to our academy at age of 15-18, NO ONE, I swear to you, NO ONE would ever think about going all loony and saying that "management don't know nothing about what they are doing because they should have taking player XY instead of this guy". Why should we? We have never spoken with the player nor have seen him play in a bigger sample size. Maybe you did at the U-20 World Cup or something (equivalent of WJC) but that's probably it.
As I said, the two systems are not thaat good of a comparison because youth leagues aren't broadcasted on TV in Europe (not like CHL or NCAA) and it's not the same "you have choices X and Y, pick whoever you want left on the table" situation but my point is that so many people around here on HF (and I assume it's the same going to a local pub talking about picks? I remember the draft day party where people left angry because we picked Trouba instead of Forsberg?
) just assume that their guess is as good as Chevys guess. Which is hilarious, IMO And it's the same with other franchises too, of course.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
I consider trading and UFA signings something completely different to drafting. You know the players and you can watch just as much about him and every other player in the league to get your own informed opinion about him. You see the whole picture and you're able to compare what was given away or paid for what he offers to the team and did in the recent past.
But drafting is totally different. You scout a player for maybe a year or even longer, you speak to him and try to figure out his personality. Even for professionels it's very hard to make the right decision and to see the whole picture - every comparable player on the same level, not only hockey skills but also character and what is going on in the players mind. And after all: Is he even motivated to play for your franchise or will he leave the city at the first opportunity?
How can you say your opinion or information, based on let's say 10 drafting reports, following the scoring race in CHL leagues and watching some games of your favorite prospects once in a while is better than that of people doing nothing else for their living? Because let's be honest, 80-90% of people don't have a bigger picture about the kid they say "know so well". Even if they do, they probably lack a looooot of informations about other players. And other players could be way better than that one player you know so much about but you can't know that your player isn't the best because you don't have enough information about the others.
That's exactly what happened with the Scheifele and Morrissey pick. That's the reason why so many people are like "WUAAASTTATATATTTTTT?????????" at the first place.
In Europe, scouting younger players is totally different and I don't think it's even a fair comparison. As an Arsenal fan, I know what I'm talking about. We are one of the most successful teams regarding young players at the age of 16-18, coming to our academy and play their way up to the first squad.
When a prospect is brought to our academy at age of 15-18, NO ONE, I swear to you, NO ONE would ever think about going all loony and saying that "management don't know nothing about what they are doing because they should have taking player XY instead of this guy". Why should we? We have never spoken with the player nor have seen him play in a bigger sample size. Maybe you did at the U-20 World Cup or something (equivalent of WJC) but that's probably it.
As I said, the two systems are not thaat good of a comparison because youth leagues aren't broadcasted on TV in Europe (not like CHL or NCAA) and it's not the same "you have choices X and Y, pick whoever you want left on the table" situation but my point is that so many people around here on HF (and I assume it's the same going to a local pub talking about picks? I remember the draft day party where people left angry because we picked Trouba instead of Forsberg?
Football and hockey can't be compared that way because in hockey you have draft picks. In football you can sign whomever you like as long as they're willing to sign with you and you have the money. Each sport is using totally different assets and therefore can't be compared at all.
Draft picks are incredibly valuable assets, so when they're used questionably it SHOULD draw the ire of the fanbase.
We also shouldn't give management and the scouting staff demi-god status. They're exactly just like us and use a lot of the same tools that myself and some other posters here use to do their own scouting. We then form our own opinion on the available prospects and on this boards share that opinion. I for example didn't care for Morrissey (I did like Trouba and Scheifele though) I'd have to re-look through my notes, but I believe I had Morrissey at #21. I watched him several times and there were things about his game I didn't really like and things I did. That being said he has made me turn the corner pretty quickly on him as a lot of the concerns I had about him have been alleviated.
Then there's the vast majority of posters who use more third party information on the prospects to formulate their opinions. I think scouting services are becoming so much more accessible to people that it's great when everyone can join in the conversation.
Point is the draft picks are not above questioning the second that they're made. Patience is obviously required with them all, but saying yay or nay right after the pick isn't wrong either.
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GJF
Beaver Jedi
Yeah ... I just said that they are not really comparable
And you are right: Picks SHOULD draw the ire and fans should discuss it. But discussing it and being aware of what happens is a BIG difference from going all crazy and saying that someone is absolutely useless in their job because they drafted player X instead of Y. The drafting party incident is the best example, IMO.
- Mar 10, 2010
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Yeah ... I just said that they are not really comparable
And you are right: Picks SHOULD draw the ire and fans should discuss it. But discussing it and being aware of what happens is a BIG difference from going all crazy and saying that someone is absolutely useless in their job because they drafted player X instead of Y. The drafting party incident is the best example, IMO.
As far as I can tell it seems like our fan base has never recovered fully from the Scheifele pick? With 19 year old Trouba in the NHL on a 40 point pace (over 82 games), with Scheifele having a very realistic shot at 50 points in his rookie year, and with Morrissey making the WJC team and tearing it up in the WHL I wonder if this years party might be less suicidal after our 1st round pick announcement?
King Woodballs
Captain Awesome
As far as I can tell it seems like our fan base has never recovered fully from the Scheifele pick? With 19 year old Trouba in the NHL on a 40 point pace (over 82 games), with Scheifele having a very realistic shot at 50 points in his rookie year, and with Morrissey making the WJC team and tearing it up in the WHL I wonder if this years party might be less suicidal after our 1st round pick announcement?
Highly unlikely
As far as I can tell it seems like our fan base has never recovered fully from the Scheifele pick? With 19 year old Trouba in the NHL on a 40 point pace (over 82 games), with Scheifele having a very realistic shot at 50 points in his rookie year, and with Morrissey making the WJC team and tearing it up in the WHL I wonder if this years party might be less suicidal after our 1st round pick announcement?
Can't see it. Just have this feeling that the Jets really don't care much about prospect rankings that most of us see. Which is a good thing, since it means they're doing their own job and ranking players according to what they think the future needs of the franchise are.
And I get the feeling that player personality/integrity is a huge factor for the Jets. I was expecting Couturier to be our first draft pick, but I'll never forget the huge, HUGE smile on Scheifele's face when he was picked. He was excited to come here. Sure he went earlier than expected but only about five or so places. I have to wonder if in interviews Couturier didn't express some reservations about playing in Winnipeg and Chevy just went "fine, whatever kid, there are other players we're interested in".
But no, most of us will be going "whaaaaaaaaaa?" come the draft (Alex Tuch). Six months later we'll have reconciled the pick within our own minds. Two years down the road we'll hail Chevy as a genius. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
Yeah ... I just said that they are not really comparable
And you are right: Picks SHOULD draw the ire and fans should discuss it. But discussing it and being aware of what happens is a BIG difference from going all crazy and saying that someone is absolutely useless in their job because they drafted player X instead of Y. The drafting party incident is the best example, IMO.
Ah I see. Those kind of comments don't really register in my brain because they're fairly useless.
GJF
Beaver Jedi
That's a good way to deal with I guess. I'm probably just not used enough to it I guess
As far as I can tell it seems like our fan base has never recovered fully from the Scheifele pick? With 19 year old Trouba in the NHL on a 40 point pace (over 82 games), with Scheifele having a very realistic shot at 50 points in his rookie year, and with Morrissey making the WJC team and tearing it up in the WHL I wonder if this years party might be less suicidal after our 1st round pick announcement?
I know I will be.
I was depressed about the schiefele pick.
I was non commital about the Trouba pick.
I was non committed about the Morrisey pick.
All three look fantastic enough now that going into future drafts, i'm just going to enjoy the ride. I was concerned with their "off the board" (if you can even call it that) picking initially, but their batting at worst 2/2, and it's looking like 3/3.
I'm willing to submit at this point that yes, our GM does know significantly more about drafting NHL players then I do, at least in the first round. It's almost more interesting looking for potential darkhorses the organization will "reach" for as opposed to getting sold on a "consensus" guy.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
This was the first time (in the first round) I was chanting for the player we got before his name was called.
I was stoked and had some numbers all ready (see pages 3-4) and also posted on another thread we had running.
I had a hunch with Horvat and Domi going it be either Zadorov, Morrissey or Pulock. I wanted Morrissey most of all because I didn't really want or like Zadarov and I knew Pulock was an early birthday.
When I watched Morrissey pre-draft I loved most his ability to move the puck.
Then I researched some numbers which all smilled very brightly on Morrissey.
I was stoked and had some numbers all ready (see pages 3-4) and also posted on another thread we had running.
I had a hunch with Horvat and Domi going it be either Zadorov, Morrissey or Pulock. I wanted Morrissey most of all because I didn't really want or like Zadarov and I knew Pulock was an early birthday.
When I watched Morrissey pre-draft I loved most his ability to move the puck.
Then I researched some numbers which all smilled very brightly on Morrissey.
- Mar 10, 2010
- 34,904
- 31,384
This was the first time (in the first round) I was chanting for the player we got before his name was called.
I was stoked and had some numbers all ready (see pages 3-4) and also posted on another thread we had running.
I had a hunch with Horvat and Domi going it be either Zadorov, Morrissey or Pulock. I wanted Morrissey most of all because I didn't really want or like Zadarov and I knew Pulock was an early birthday.
When I watched Morrissey pre-draft I loved most his ability to move the puck.
Then I researched some numbers which all smilled very brightly on Morrissey.
Our board really seemed to warm up to him on about page 8 of this thread after both Video clips were posted. The first of the U18's showed his skill but the second with some WHL highlights showed his hitting and that combined with your post (and a few others) seemed to get our base who were not familiar with Josh energized.
I was out at the lake the day of the draft and had no idea who we picked until i saw the paper in the store the next day. My response was "a d-man?, oh well..." because there was really no one left that I "wanted" by the time we picked.
the turning point for me was that article from that oilers site that made morissey look like an absolute boss. That tickled my fancy. then watching and paying attention to him i got excited, kids a beauty to watch.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
This was the first time (in the first round) I was chanting for the player we got before his name was called.
I was stoked and had some numbers all ready (see pages 3-4) and also posted on another thread we had running.
I had a hunch with Horvat and Domi going it be either Zadorov, Morrissey or Pulock. I wanted Morrissey most of all because I didn't really want or like Zadarov and I knew Pulock was an early birthday.
When I watched Morrissey pre-draft I loved most his ability to move the puck.
Then I researched some numbers which all smilled very brightly on Morrissey.
I still think you're wrong about Zadorov.
Hobby Bull
amazon sucks
- May 21, 2013
- 1,215
- 132
I'm not sure how drafting works with respect to skirting anti-trust laws and such.
There was an earlier model for the NHL whereby you basically "owned" a player based on where he was born or where he played junior, I think...
He played for the team that owned him, for the amount he was offered, or he could just stay home and work on the farm...
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
I never thought Zadorov was doomed to fail; I just didn't want him at that spot. If we were picking later I'd be fine.
His size is nice, but I think he's a late first guy that went early first because their is inflated value on size, especially on defensemen.
- Mar 10, 2010
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Unfortunately it is a factor now.
I am in the camp that prefers Morrissey strait up but Zadorov is a talented kid.
CorgisPer60
Barking at the net
That was true up until the late-60s. The turning point was one Bobby Hull being signed by a certain WHA team. Amazing what a bit of equivalent competition does to change the landscape of the game.
Blue Shakehead
because lol Jets
As far as I can tell it seems like our fan base has never recovered fully from the Scheifele pick? With 19 year old Trouba in the NHL on a 40 point pace (over 82 games), with Scheifele having a very realistic shot at 50 points in his rookie year, and with Morrissey making the WJC team and tearing it up in the WHL I wonder if this years party might be less suicidal after our 1st round pick announcement?
This post describes me and many others perfectly. I've been telling friends over the past few months that one thing I've learned is not to question the drafting decisions of Chevy & Co. If we're scoring him on draft picks alone, he's an A+. The Trouba pick alone might very well be the most important transaction of this franchise for 10-15 years.
When you get right down to it, how many people are really in a position to critically analyze these decisions on draft day? I don't know if anyone here is, unless they've watched each player play 5+ games. I'm certainly not and unless we draft some gritty brute or a goalie in an early round, you won't hear any criticism from me on drafting.
EDIT: I still reserve the right to criticize future decisions if a) we hire Calgary's scouting team
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
That's really discounting his play. He's a hell of a defensemen and has a boatload of other skills that I rated very highly: Skating, stickwork, neutral zone reads, etc.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Holden Caulfield
Eternal Skeptic
CBA. Players collectively bargain away their rights there, which is why draft works. Couldn't do a draft without a CBA. It's a tradeoff they take for minimum salary, benefits, pensions, guaranteed contracts, etc, etc.
- Mar 10, 2010
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