Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[snowkiddin]

I was a young adult during the 80's and experienced their 3 cups from 84-90. I was actually in Edmonton for the 1st of that run in 84. I also remember the joy of the AVCO cups and went to quite a few games during some of those runs, but agreed nothing will match a Stanley Cup.

Not to disclose too much personal information on a public forum, but I was born after the 1990 Grey Cup. Heck, I even missed the original Jets. I grew up on the Goldeyes, Bombers, and Moose. Two of those teams have had success lately (albeit in smaller leagues), True North’s (NHL) hockey team is next. Don’t want to derail the thread too much reminiscing, but as critical as I can be of the Jets I do believe we’ll get there one day.

 

[KingBogo]

Depends on how badly Van wants to get something done. Their cap situation gives them some incentive.

It would be futures based. I expect they would ask for Perfetti but hard to say what would be next when they get a flat NO to that. How much value would Lucius have for them? Similar draft position to what Boeser went at, also a RHS. Drafted out of the same league. Lucius had the higher ppg in that league in draft year but in a Covid shortened season. I would do that. Don't know that Van would be interested though. NO, I'm sure they would be interested. Not sure if they would consider that enough though. And we would probably need them to retain about 2 mil. That would increase the size of the add they would need.

Lucius + is an interesting thought, but that is signally a deep dive rebuild for them. I've been a bit torn on really wanting Chevy to do what he can to see if he can push this group back into contention and what it will take to make it happen.

 

[LowLefty]

Jets xGA appears to be stabalizing in these last few games. Rolling 5 game average of Jets xGA.

View attachment 610854

Random fluctuation? Ease of competition? Rick Bowness effect? Remains to be seen.

I don't think there is any doubt the team is playing better defensive hockey - lately.
As for your questions, probably all the above although I don't know how you would slice up that pie to determine proportions.

If the Jets come out tonight and ratchet up the effort level / intensity, I'll be happy - and I'm very interested in seeing what "remains to be seen".

 

[surixon]

Lucius + is an interesting thought, but that is signally a deep dive rebuild for them. I've been a bit torn on really wanting Chevy to do what he can to see if he can push this group back into contention and what it will take to make it happen.

Boeser for Lucious and 2024 first is likely what it would take imo. Maybe add a B prospect like Chisholm if they eat some of his cap.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Boeser for Lucious and 2024 first is likely what it would take imo. Maybe add a B prospect like Chisholm if they eat some of his cap.

I think that Lucius + 24 1st should be enough to justify them eating some cap, TBH.

I have a good feeling about Chisholm. Truth is, I probably overrate him, but I take him over a less balanced Dman who might pick up a few more points but who will not be as good defensively. I put him in that category of don't trade until we know what have, or don't have.

I would be more inclined to do Lucius + Heinola - IF they would retain - and keep the 1st and Chisholm. That still leaves us with Snerg + Stan + Capo before Chisholm becomes next man up so its not like we are leaving #s 6,7,8 D exposed. That is 2 partially developed 1st rounders for Boeser.

 

[KingBogo]

Boeser for Lucious and 2024 first is likely what it would take imo. Maybe add a B prospect like Chisholm if they eat some of his cap.

Could we make this work under the cap? It would be a very bold statement by Chevy, that I believe in this core.

 

[gojetsgo]

Could we make this work under the cap? It would be a very bold statement by Chevy, that I believe in this core.

could also help convince players to stay next off season

 

[KingBogo]

could also help convince players to stay next off season

As long as the price isn't too high I'd love a move like that. Big statement and when Ehlers is back we have an extremely solid top 6. You can then move Wheeler to the 3rd and run a nice balanced lineup.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

As long as the price isn't too high I'd love a move like that. Big statement and when Ehlers is back we have an extremely solid top 6. You can then move Wheeler to the 3rd and run a nice balanced lineup.

Yes - but what about the cap?

 

[gojetsgo]

Yes - but what about the cap?

if you are going by capfriendly it may look like we have little cap space(1.6 million) but that includes the cap hits from the guys on ir

so it's really 1.6 + .750(essimont) +.750 (toni) +.850(harkins) +863(heinola) which comes to 4.8 million in capspace and 5.7 if we use stanley as part of the trade

if we make a trade most likely put ehlers/barron on ltir and gain that cap space needed until we are able to send guys back down to the moose

 

[surixon]

Could we make this work under the cap? It would be a very bold statement by Chevy, that I believe in this core.

I'm not sure, we may have to move out a dmen as well. I'd have to look into our cao situation.

if you are going by capfriendly it may look like we have little cap space(1.6 million) but that includes the cap hits from the guys on ir

so it's really 1.6 + .750(essimont) +.750 (toni) +.850(harkins) +863(heinola) which comes to 4.8 million in capspace and 5.7 if we use stanley as part of the trade

if we make a trade most likely put ehlers/barron on ltir and gain that cap space needed until we are able to send guys back down to the moose

Yeah and if Vancouver ate 2 million we could fit it.

 

[RabidOne]

I don't disagree with the need for a better option in the top 6. But I can't see who to get or what price to pay. I'd like Boeser (I think) but I think the price to acquire would be too steep. And then how do we manage the cap when Ehlers is ready to come back in 2-3 months?

Harkins has always played well in (very limited) opportunities to play in the top 6 before. I think it suits him better than a checking role. What would happen in an extended stay in the top 6 is unknown. But he has speed and he works hard so it could work. It can't be any worse than what we have tried so far. Nothing to lose.

I agree with both. Seems like Harkins could be good to try in a top 6 role, not sure he has really seen an extended look there.
I like Boesser but pretty sure his cap is 7+. Vancouver is going to want a good player/prospect back plus a pick, as well as shedding salary. I think the price might be too high. Although maybe they can take another Defenseman we don't want, they already have Meyers and Poolman!

 

[surixon]

I agree with both. Seems like Harkins could be good to try in a top 6 role, not sure he has really seen an extended look there.
I like Boesser but pretty sure his cap is 7+. Vancouver is going to want a good player/prospect back plus a pick, as well as shedding salary. I think the price might be too high. Although maybe they can take another Defenseman we don't want, they already have Meyers and Poolman!

Boeser has a $6.65 million cap hit for this season and another two after. They'd have to eat some of it but we could fit it in if Chevy is aggressive.

Yes cost would be a good prospect and a 1st imo. I don't usually like trading top prospects but we have replenished some skill in our forward prospect pool and likely can afford to deal a Lucious with Lambert, McGroarty, Chibrikov and Rashevsky also in the stables.

 

[DRW204]

 

[Heldig]

Boeser for Lucious and 2024 first is likely what it would take imo. Maybe add a B prospect like Chisholm if they eat some of his cap.

That seems like a LOT to pay for Boeser.

 

[surixon]

That seems like a LOT to pay for Boeser.

It's a lot but Brock is a player who's paced 65 points per 82 games season over his career and is signed to a decent cap hit for a couple more years.

Look at it like this, what would you want for Dubois as I'd peg their values fairly similarly.

 

[Heldig]

It's a lot but Brock is a player who's paced 65 points per 82 games season over his career and is signed to a decent cap hit for a couple more years.

Look at it like this, what would you want for Dubois as I'd peg their values fairly similarly.

I rate Dubois much higher than Boeser. Dubois brings grit and strength and plays the more important position.

Boeser has way better hair though.

 

[surixon]

I rate Dubois much higher than Boeser. Dubois brings grit and strength and plays the more important position.

Boeser has way better hair though.

You need to factor in contract situation though. In a vacuum I agree with you that I'd rather have Dubois but you get additional years with Brock and that will factor into the valuation.

What do you think a reasonable price for him would be?

 

[voyageur]

Boeser has a $6.65 million cap hit for this season and another two after. They'd have to eat some of it but we could fit it in if Chevy is aggressive.

Yes cost would be a good prospect and a 1st imo. I don't usually like trading top prospects but we have replenished some skill in our forward prospect pool and likely can afford to deal a Lucious with Lambert, McGroarty, Chibrikov and Rashevsky also in the stables.

I just don't see the Jets big name hunting. You realize that when Ehlers comes back the player who gets demoted out of the top 6 is Perfetti under any of these trade scenarios. I'm quite liking what I see from the kid so far, so I'm willing to plug the top line as long as necessary. I'd say the Jets are in the same scenario as Colorado missing Landeskog, just have to keep afloat. Team defense, elite goaltending, good specials teams all help. I'm hoping that Harkins and Eyssimont start to add secondary scoring, which takes a load off the big guns.

At best I'd consider Kasperi Kapanen retained for a 5th round pick, to help Lowry get back to his early season depth scoring, and to have more options, but still I don't think he's going to displace Appleton for the duration of the season, or knock Gagner out of his eventual 4th line, PP role, so unless the injuries get worse, I trust my roster's depth if I am Chevy, grind it out.

Make smart trades at good value when necessary. Keep the 1st for next year's draft, and maybe add another one if Dubois gets moved.

 

[surixon]

I just don't see the Jets big name hunting. You realize that when Ehlers comes back the player who gets demoted out of the top 6 is Perfetti under any of these trade scenarios. I'm quite liking what I see from the kid so far, so I'm willing to plug the top line as long as necessary. I'd say the Jets are in the same scenario as Colorado missing Landeskog, just have to keep afloat. Team defense, elite goaltending, good specials teams all help. I'm hoping that Harkins and Eyssimont start to add secondary scoring, which takes a load off the big guns.

At best I'd consider Kasperi Kapanen retained for a 5th round pick, to help Lowry get back to his early season depth scoring, and to have more options, but still I don't think he's going to displace Appleton for the duration of the season, or knock Gagner out of his eventual 4th line, PP role, so unless the injuries get worse, I trust my roster's depth if I am Chevy, grind it out.

Make smart trades at good value when necessary. Keep the 1st for next year's draft, and maybe add another one if Dubois gets moved.

That is another option. But you can't really predict injury situations so even when Nik is back we could have another top 6 injury at that time.

Lots of possibilities if we add more depth on how to deploy our players down the stretch if we have a fully healthy contingent. You possibly could have three good two-way lines.

But I somehow doubt Chevy is going to make a big move. He is more the nibble around the edges type unless he feels he needs to trade a big piece (Kane, Laine etc.)

A big difference between us and Colorado is we have cap space and they don't so we have the ability to weoponize it to add a piece or two. But I see Chevy waiting as long as he can to accrue more of it and then add some pieces closer to the deadline unless the teams play takes a dip amd forces him to make a move sooner.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

if you are going by capfriendly it may look like we have little cap space(1.6 million) but that includes the cap hits from the guys on ir

so it's really 1.6 + .750(essimont) +.750 (toni) +.850(harkins) +863(heinola) which comes to 4.8 million in capspace and 5.7 if we use stanley as part of the trade

if we make a trade most likely put ehlers/barron on ltir and gain that cap space needed until we are able to send guys back down to the moose

You get it to 4.8 that way but Boeser gets 6.65. Still 2 mil short. What happens when we get Ehlers, Barron, Appleton back? Use Stanley and we need a replacement player on the roster.

In reality we have more than 1.3, but not enough for Boeser unless there is retention in the deal. Van needs to free up cap space. That's why they are trading an impact player. A little retention makes the price go up.

I'm not arguing against the idea. But the cap needs to be dealt with in any proposal. The easy way is retention, but that doesn't come for free.

 

[Huffer]

I'm not super interested in Boeser. His skating is an issue IMO, and I don't think he is the player he was. I especially don't like him at that price.

 

[surixon]

You get it to 4.8 that way but Boeser gets 6.65. Still 2 mil short. What happens when we get Ehlers, Barron, Appleton back? Use Stanley and we need a replacement player on the roster.

In reality we have more than 1.3, but not enough for Boeser unless there is retention in the deal. Van needs to free up cap space. That's why they are trading an impact player. A little retention makes the price go up.

I'm not arguing against the idea. But the cap needs to be dealt with in any proposal. The easy way is retention, but that doesn't come for free.

I mean Boeser won't come at his full $6 plus million as Vancouver has already played nearly a 1/4 of the season. Not sure what his actual cap hit would be for the rest of the year but it would effectively be less then $6 million.

Also not really sure how much additional space we will have accrued the first quarter of the year.

They really have made this cap thing for in season trades complicated.

 

[ecolad]

I dunno whether Boeser or someone who plays like him stylistically should be Chevy`s target here. If we assume a top line of Connor/Scheifele/Ehlers, with Perfetti/DuBois making up 2/3 of the 2nd line, the question becomes what type of player would best complement Perfetti/DuBois with the line playing the style that Bones apparently wants. My sense is that someone like Boeser would not be the best candidate if you look at things from this perspective. He is absolutely a gifted player, with demonstrated ability to finish. but I don`t see that he brings some of the attributes that would make the line more efficient and productive (aggressive ,physical forecheck and strength along boards for puck pursuit and low cycle work; good net front presence for screening/rebound chances/ close-in finishing ability).

 

[Adam da bomb]

How has all this trade boeser stuff become topic of d thread?