Shaman464
No u
My issue is that this deal really just seems like a treading water deal. He's not going to replace Datsyuk's production, and he's not a guy who shoots. He's just another puck mover on a team full of them.
Confirmed with Link: Wings sign Frans Nielsen 6 years 5.25m/yr
- Thread starter Heaton
- Start date
My issue is that this deal really just seems like a treading water deal. He's not going to replace Datsyuk's production, and he's not a guy who shoots. He's just another puck mover on a team full of them.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,244
- 14,753
I can agree there was a need for a top 6 center. When the wings resigned Miller. I did not see a need for a bottom 6 forward. We have AA and Mantha that need an NHL spot. We don't need a plug who will not improve. How can AA and Mantha develop if they just play in the AHL for three more years. How many cups have we won with the over ripe Tatar and Nyquist?
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Mentioned in here: http://www.freep.com/story/sports/n...nhl-free-agency-pavel-datsyuk-void/86645370/?
However who knows if it's the plan or if it's just St.James speculating. But I would imagine Larkin will get the chance to lock down a center job in camp.
Heaton
Moderator
Ah, HSJ speculation. I don't expect Larkin to play 1C off the jump, I'm guessing Z starts there.
GoAwayDanCleary
DRWCC
- Aug 6, 2012
- 10,752
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Considering our talent at the Wings compared to down the middle I don't know why you wouldn't transition Larkin to center. Its beneficial now and long term.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
It probably isn't beneficial in the short term. Gotta make sure the streak survives.
With how bad the Wings defense is going to be this year, losing faceoffs is a huge no-no.
Henkka
Registered User
Yeah, like i wrote earlier somewhere, it would be ideal to do now.
First of all. Larkin was a center at lower levels. Last season was his first as a wing.
Now, when Zetterberg has lost his speed to be realiable two-way center, put him on the wing.
Zetterberg is the only player who can convert to wing, at same time be effective playmaker from there, and has the brains to mentor Larkin for NHL two-way Selke center game. I can't find any more idealistic way to do it. Time is now.
Larkin still sucks at faceoffs, but that takes just hard work to be good at them. Time to work hard. Take a lesson from Kris Draper. Now.
I'm a huge Zetterberg fan and defended his play a lot last year, but even I think he might benefit from going to the wing. A speedy Larkin at center really helps open up the ice for him so he can focus on getting shots on net instead of using his legs to always play defense.
Will Larkin lose more faceoffs? Probably. But man, Larkin can also skate with anybody in the league. That's a pretty good defensive attribute, right?
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
It's definitely possible Larkin's other skills makeup for any deficiencies taking faceoffs, but every move Holland made this past week screams "I have zero faith in the kids keeping the streak alive."
Either way hopefully Larkin ends up having a good season taking faceoffs, whether that's occasionally or full time.
SpookyTsuki
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2014
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I watched a solid 20ish Islanders game last season and several more the year before. I do not think he's a very good player. Terrible is a stretch, but he's bad now and it'll be even worse in a few years.
Heaton
Moderator
I don't like the contract, but I disagree with Eggberto. I also disagree with Claypool's notion that a lot of the fans displeased with the signing believe it has to do with Nielsen's ability. The concern lies with his age and the term of the contract. Nielsen will be a good player for a few years, but he might also be a liability for the back half of the deal. Maybe it won't matter, but for guys like him and Helm who rely heavily on their skating to get their job done, it's probably going to big an issue since your legs usually go first. We saw Datsyuk go from having explosiveness to losing that ability later in his career.
You mean when he needed cadaver tendons to continue skating?
What about Yzerman's knees? You just can't bank on when your body gives up on you. Someone elses decline is not another person's.
You mean when he needed cadaver tendons to continue skating?
No it wasn't his tendons or age. He already had "packed it in."
The term is my biggest gripe with the deal. I'm not a fan of him as a player but I could stomach it at 3 or maybe 4. Admittedly I still wouldn't have been a fan of the signing at 3 to 4, but 6 years for a 32 year old is God damned outrageous.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Yep, health is more important than age when it comes to decline. And while there is some correlation between age and increased risk of injury as well as increased difficulty to rebound from injury, we've still seen plenty of player be effective into their mid and late 30s. And plenty of guys in their 10s or 20s that got their careers derailed from injuries. You just never know.You mean when he needed cadaver tendons to continue skating?
What about Yzerman's knees? You just can't bank on when your body gives up on you. Someone elses decline is not another person's.
Nielsen is good but it feels like a deal som many teams are doing around the league just so they have a chance to make the playoffs. This doesn't make the red wings a contending team but maybe a playoff team. So many teams are afraid of rebuilds.
Yeah, Larkin should go centre this season. He didn't look out of place at all there for team USA during the Worlds, and guy's like Ray Ferraro said more than once that he looks ready to make that move.
Plus, they shouldn't force Z to play another full year down the middle, unless their goal is to have him turn to dust and blow away by January. He was effective for the first have of last season, but the role they had him in and Blashill's total mismanagement of his minutes meant he had nothing left by mid-season.
I'm assuming with the whole Nielsen signing they're gonna run a 2a, 2b type type situation with him and Larkin, and slot Sheahan as the 3c and Glendenning as the 4 c. Pretty sure Nielsen was used as a shutdown guy from time to time with the Isles, so he can be that guy with the Wings to take a bit of pressure off Larkin. That's probably better for Larkin's development at this point, rather than just flicking him in the deep end by give him the toughest assignments every single night.
Plus, they shouldn't force Z to play another full year down the middle, unless their goal is to have him turn to dust and blow away by January. He was effective for the first have of last season, but the role they had him in and Blashill's total mismanagement of his minutes meant he had nothing left by mid-season.
I'm assuming with the whole Nielsen signing they're gonna run a 2a, 2b type type situation with him and Larkin, and slot Sheahan as the 3c and Glendenning as the 4 c. Pretty sure Nielsen was used as a shutdown guy from time to time with the Isles, so he can be that guy with the Wings to take a bit of pressure off Larkin. That's probably better for Larkin's development at this point, rather than just flicking him in the deep end by give him the toughest assignments every single night.
SLAPSHOT723
QU! Bobcats!
As an Islander fan, I was sad to see him go, but it was the right move for us not to bring him back. His contract would have hampered us from bringing up kids for the next six years and his cap hit would have been too high for what our future roster should be making.
You guys got a great PKer and a solid scorer. He seems to avoid injury really well and produced well towards the end of the season. Although he wasn't as dominant as he was when he was younger, he's absolute money in the shootout. If you guys make it to that part of the game, you'll get a few guaranteed goals and perhaps more wins simply because you have Nielsen taking shootout attempts.
I also think he'll be a great mentor for Larkin, who I am huge fan of. My brother goes to Michigan, and he loved watching Larkin. I even bought him a red Larkin jersey for his birthday. Larkin already has a natural offensive touch, Nielsen will definitely help him with learning how to be sneaky defensively.
Here are some negatives:
- He's not strong. He's good defensively but he can't shut down guys with size and strength like a Martin Hanzal can.
- He's bad at faceoffs. The guy can't win a defensive zone faceoff to save his life.
- He's limited offensively. He's not going to get you 60 points playing 2nd line center. I thought the best hockey he played was when he was our 3rd line center behind Tavares and Nelson in 2014-15. He was really good that year all around. It was a weird year when he had 58 points, but then I remembered he produced more when Tavares got hurt at the Olympics.
- He's not very good in the playoffs. He was much better this year than he was in 2013/2015, but he couldn't produce and we really could have used it, especially against the Capitals when we scored exactly zero PPG's in a 7-game series.
With all that being said, he still has at least two good years left in him, and I can't think of a better place for him than Detroit. He fits the mold of that team so perfectly, but it's too bad you guys didn't have him in his prime. I think he'll get 45-52 points for you guys next year, and probably the same the year after that. The last 4 years of his contract? I don't know. You can't rely on him to produce, but he can be a valuable player.
You guys got a great PKer and a solid scorer. He seems to avoid injury really well and produced well towards the end of the season. Although he wasn't as dominant as he was when he was younger, he's absolute money in the shootout. If you guys make it to that part of the game, you'll get a few guaranteed goals and perhaps more wins simply because you have Nielsen taking shootout attempts.
I also think he'll be a great mentor for Larkin, who I am huge fan of. My brother goes to Michigan, and he loved watching Larkin. I even bought him a red Larkin jersey for his birthday. Larkin already has a natural offensive touch, Nielsen will definitely help him with learning how to be sneaky defensively.
Here are some negatives:
- He's not strong. He's good defensively but he can't shut down guys with size and strength like a Martin Hanzal can.
- He's bad at faceoffs. The guy can't win a defensive zone faceoff to save his life.
- He's limited offensively. He's not going to get you 60 points playing 2nd line center. I thought the best hockey he played was when he was our 3rd line center behind Tavares and Nelson in 2014-15. He was really good that year all around. It was a weird year when he had 58 points, but then I remembered he produced more when Tavares got hurt at the Olympics.
- He's not very good in the playoffs. He was much better this year than he was in 2013/2015, but he couldn't produce and we really could have used it, especially against the Capitals when we scored exactly zero PPG's in a 7-game series.
With all that being said, he still has at least two good years left in him, and I can't think of a better place for him than Detroit. He fits the mold of that team so perfectly, but it's too bad you guys didn't have him in his prime. I think he'll get 45-52 points for you guys next year, and probably the same the year after that. The last 4 years of his contract? I don't know. You can't rely on him to produce, but he can be a valuable player.
You described perfectly why fans here are lukewarm to him. It's not him personally. He's a great player and I think he's going to do well. It's what his contract represents, particularly when you add in Helm, Ericsson, Howard, and so on.
In my opinion, we don't really have any strong candidates for a 2C outside of Sheahan in our system as I view both AA and Svech as NHL wingers. NYI has better center prospects than us.
The last couple years may be a detriment both in terms of play and jamming a young player - but I don't really see it as him taking a spot from a prospect now like say Helm or Vanek and to a lesser extent Ott since I don't think he's guaranteed a spot like the other 2.
I think had Helm not been resigned people would be much happier with the Nielsen signing (outside of term length obviously) as a whole.
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