GDT: Wings-Lightning 3/9

[Hen Kolland]

What "impact" players was Yzerman going to get, and with what assets? Are you 100% positive in your assertion that he made "zero effort" to improve the roster? There's only so much he can do with the current contractual obligations, and it's up to the coach to make the best of the players he's got.

Are you telling me that another coach definitely couldn't implement a different system that would better fit the players the Wings currently employ?

That argument is just as dishonest as the ones you're trying to counter because it relies on assumptions and hearsay, not facts.

Let's not turn this into anything that goes against Yzerman, because that's not at all what I am doing. I am not saying that he should have done more, or that there were players that we should have pursued. I'm merely saying that his pursuit of talent was depth talent that came in cheap. We are talking middle to bottom of the lineup players like Stecher, Merrill, Namestnikov, Ryan. None of them are bona fide top 6 forwards or top 3 defensemen. The talent deficiency that exists was lessened, but it wasn't corrected entirely. The team has improved marginally, in part because of the solidified depth (and elimination of dead weight. Stecher/Merrill >> Ericsson/Daley, Ryan/Namestnikov >> Abdelkader/Nielsen), and also because the system is absolutely, visibly improved. The marginal improvement is dependent on both pieces of the puzzle, not one or the other.

And no, I am not saying that a different coach couldn't do something different and get more out of the players. That is why I plainly stated that nobody could get upset if you are in the party that still wants to move on from Blashill. Because there likely is more that can be gotten out of the players, but the question is how much more. I am a believer that there is not a single coach in hockey that could elevate this team to be much more than a bottom 5 team. That is why I said, "even if he did everything right, the team would still be bottom 5."

This comes back to the overall point, if you state that Blashill has not made notable improvements as a coach this year as compared to last year, then you are completely unwilling to relent your personal bias and have an honest discussion. I'm not saying he's the solution, I'm saying he has been better than he was, which the eye test and analytics both support. He can still be a floundering or uninspiring coaching option that we should part ways at the conclusion of the season.

 

[Run the Jewels]

It took Blashill a long time to figure out he needed to play low-event hockey. To his credit he has given guys like Cholowski and Rasmussen playing time very early in their careers but that hasn't gone so well. Yzerman has upgraded the talent on the roster but we obviously do not have a single elite player. So my assumption is Yzerman is going to bring in cheap, short term contracts and ice a team that can play low event hockey and then hopefully trade guys with trade value to provide the franchise with more assets via the draft. If we can get a Top 2 D-man and a 1C over the next couple drafts then you have a core you can build around and if we're lucky we eventually get to where Tampa is right now.

I don't view Blashill as a good coach, but we are not a good hockey team so I am not too worked up about how bad the team is right now. This franchise was cratered from being the best in the league to the absolute worst. You can't buy your way back to relevance, you need to do it incrementally through the draft.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Svechnikov has team-high GA/60 of all forwards at 5-on-5. By far.

There's some defence to be done still. You can score 4 points per 4 games, but opposite teams are scoring "8 points per 4 games" against him.

Did you type this with a straight face?

He has played a grand total of 45 minutes this season. As a 4th line wing. But he is directly responsible for 8 goals against in that time? Not his center? Not 2 defensemen? Not the goalie? Not dumb luck?

Careful not to put this rookie winger on the ice or else the rest of your team is gonna suddenly collapse and the puck's gonna magically go in your net on average once every 5 minutes.

Weird how other teams manage to deploy offensive specialist wingers without getting blown up constantly.

edit: Also, his on-ice GA is only 4, not 8. So his net goal differential is zero. Not bad for a guy who has played 240 minutes total in his career on a historically awful roster...

 

[izlez]

Getting major Joe Hicketts flashbacks reading the reactions to Svechnikov in this thread

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Svechnikov has team-high GA/60 of all forwards at 5-on-5. By far.

There's some defence to be done still. You can score 4 points per 4 games, but opposite teams are scoring "8 points per 4 games" against him.

Obviously. His reasoning was svech wouldn’t be on the pp because larkin is back. While Erne is out there playing pp. you can Bench anyone doesn’t have to be Erne but svech could get erne pp spot.

 

[RedMenace]

Let's not turn this into anything that goes against Yzerman, because that's not at all what I am doing. I am not saying that he should have done more, or that there were players that we should have pursued. I'm merely saying that his pursuit of talent was depth talent that came in cheap. We are talking middle to bottom of the lineup players like Stecher, Merrill, Namestnikov, Ryan. None of them are bona fide top 6 forwards or top 3 defensemen. The talent deficiency that exists was lessened, but it wasn't corrected entirely. The team has improved marginally, in part because of the solidified depth (and elimination of dead weight. Stecher/Merrill >> Ericsson/Daley, Ryan/Namestnikov >> Abdelkader/Nielsen), and also because the system is absolutely, visibly improved. The marginal improvement is dependent on both pieces of the puzzle, not one or the other.

And no, I am not saying that a different coach couldn't do something different and get more out of the players. That is why I plainly stated that nobody could get upset if you are in the party that still wants to move on from Blashill. Because there likely is more that can be gotten out of the players, but the question is how much more. I am a believer that there is not a single coach in hockey that could elevate this team to be much more than a bottom 5 team. That is why I said, "even if he did everything right, the team would still be bottom 5."

This comes back to the overall point, if you state that Blashill has not made notable improvements as a coach this year as compared to last year, then you are completely unwilling to relent your personal bias and have an honest discussion. I'm not saying he's the solution, I'm saying he has been better than he was, which the eye test and analytics both support. He can still be a floundering or uninspiring coaching option that we should part ways at the conclusion of the season.

Fair enough.

If I had the time I'd be interested to look up and try to understand the fancy stats, but, you know... numbers...

 

[14ari13]

This was one of the best games this season. We played the champions, we had the lead twice and we almost won the game. One fight too.
I enjoyed the game big time, just to come to this board and learn that we got slaughtered 10-1.
Honestly I thought which poor goalie is going to be destroyed. I thought both would. But Greiss found the way to survive. He made some strong saves, their 3rd was a bit weak, but they would score with their goalie pulled anyhow.
Zedina had another very strong game.

 

[14ari13]

Getting major Joe Hicketts flashbacks reading the reactions to Svechnikov in this thread

Drama queens need to make a storm in a glass. We played maybe the most exciting game of the season, yet so many drama queens bitching about Kuznetsov vs Wallin, Franzen vs Hossa...

Obviously. His reasoning was svech wouldn’t be on the pp because larkin is back. While Erne is out there playing pp. you can Bench anyone doesn’t have to be Erne but svech could get erne pp spot.

Erne scored a PP goal and has been playing his best hockey. The guy was more or less useless since he joined the team, but now he suddenly plays well.
I am surprised that Svechnikov was scratched, but I have no idea why Yzerman and Blashill don't trust him. As I remember Helen reported a few days ago that he is not the brass' plan.

 

[MBH]

I don't know how anyone can look at this team and talk about significant coaching improvements. Sure we are less of a defensive shambles, but then acquiring 3 new defensive defencemen & getting Dekeyser back and now fit will help over having some rotation of Bowey, Biega and retirement level Ericsson and Daley and Green. Offensively some of the depth has improved, but with every player under 26 performing significantly worse than last year, I'm not sure how we can claim the coaching has been anything but a failure, unless tanking is the aim for the coach as well as the GM. And the PP now scoring is like the law of averages when you've just come out of the worst PP slump in years....

Last night's game.
Or many others over the years.
Team has a lead.
Slightest bit of pressure and they fold like a cheap tent.

You can blame the players. But this team is good enough to get a lead. They just don't have the mental toughness to weather a storm.
Coaching is a big part of that.

 

[14ari13]

That's some Erik Karlsson defense right there.

Being -2 vs that firepower loaded team is not a shame at all. They are a handful to handle to say the least.

 

[14ari13]

Last night's game.
Or many others over the years.
Team has a lead.
Slightest bit of pressure and they fold like a cheap tent.

You can blame the players. But this team is good enough to get a lead. They just don't have the mental toughness to weather a storm.
Coaching is a big part of that.

Like the wings of 95/96 who didn't have the killer instinct, for us who remember. The best team and the best coach.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Getting major Joe Hicketts flashbacks reading the reactions to Svechnikov in this thread

Joe Hicketts in no way equals Svechnikov. Especially considering Blashill loved Hicketts.

I'm not even saying Svech is going to turn into an NHL player but the coach says he needs to get an opportunity and make the most of it. Svech comes in and arguably does that. Then is promptly sent to the taxi squad so Blash can play "no event" Brome.

The Wings suck. Why not play a kid who has some potential to be an asset, even if it's trade bait for a late pick now, versus Brome who has zero future with the team and will be easily replaceable?

The organization's handling of this kid has been baffling.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Drama queens need to make a storm in a glass. We played maybe the most exciting game of the season, yet so many drama queens bitching about Kuznetsov vs Wallin, Franzen vs Hossa...



Erne scored a PP goal and has been playing his best hockey. The guy was more or less useless since he joined the team, but now he suddenly plays well.
I am surprised that Svechnikov was scratched, but I have no idea why Yzerman and Blashill don't trust him. As I remember Helen reported a few days ago that he is not the brass' plan.

Sorry could you quote the posts about Franzen vs. Hossa or Wallin vs Kuznetsov in this thread? I must've missed those.

I see a lot of posts talking about a current roster player who was put on the taxi squad. And they're basically making the same point you did at the end of your post. People are confused as to why Yzerman and Blashill don't want to play him.

 

[14ari13]

Sorry could you quote the posts about Franzen vs. Hossa or Wallin vs Kuznetsov in this thread? I must've missed those.

I see a lot of posts talking about a current roster player who was put on the taxi squad. And they're basically making the same point you did at the end of your post. People are confused as to why Yzerman and Blashill don't want to play him.

Referring to Wallin vs Kuznetsov and Franzen vs Hossa was meant as those discussions where people could endlessly beat the dead horse, that is all these posts about Blashill.
Yzerman and Blashill make discussions.
Helen reported just a few days ago that Svechnikov did not have the future with this team. I was surprised and as many others too.

I posed a question why it was when it seemed like the guy was about to change his bad fortune with the injuries, just to find myself bashed by that Aussie guy how I dared to say that Svechnikov had some strong games.

Zedina, Rasmussen and Svechnikov are the players I want to focus on. Larkin, Mantha and Beruzzi are the players we know what we get.
The veteran players are on their out so no point of discussing them.

Other players are Glendenning, Ryan and Bernier who might bring us a 1st in a trade.

 

[TheOtherOne]

For the record if we remove all of Svechnikov's PP points he would still be tied at #5 in points per game.

(tied with Givani Smith lol)

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Erne scored a PP goal and has been playing his best hockey. The guy was more or less useless since he joined the team, but now he suddenly plays well.
I am surprised that Svechnikov was scratched, but I have no idea why Yzerman and Blashill don't trust him. As I remember Helen reported a few days ago that he is not the brass' plan.

Citing Ernes pp goal is confirmation bias. He doesn’t belong on the pp and svech does. Erne has been playing well, again I’m not saying bench Erne, I’m saying give svech his pp spot and bench someone else. Benching svech because there is no room on the pp is the dumbest thing to say when Erne is out there.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Drama queens need to make a storm in a glass. We played maybe the most exciting game of the season, yet so many drama queens bitching about Kuznetsov vs Wallin, Franzen vs Hossa...




Erne scored a PP goal and has been playing his best hockey. The guy was more or less useless since he joined the team, but now he suddenly plays well.
I am surprised that Svechnikov was scratched, but I have no idea why Yzerman and Blashill don't trust him. As I remember Helen reported a few days ago that he is not the brass' plan.

Preface: I didn't watch last night's game yet but it's on the to-do list today.

Erne was only ever billed as a solid 4th line guy who is strong in the corners. Last year he was stuck playing with guys that couldn't get the puck in the other team's zone and so he wasn't able to play to his strengths. I liked the way he has played with Glendening and Helm. That kind of line allows Erne to play to his strengths.

 

[14ari13]

Citing Ernes pp goal is confirmation bias. He doesn’t belong on the pp and svech does. Erne has been playing well, again I’m not saying bench Erne, I’m saying give svech his pp spot and bench someone else. Benching svech because there is no room on the pp is the dumbest thing to say when Erne is out there.

I praised Svechnikov a lot after his strong games. I even went so far and said that he even made Nielsen and Filppula look good.
What is the reason Blashill and Yzerman decided what they did I have no idea. But we all know that Helen reported that he wasn't in the brass' plan.
If you know, please do share.

Preface: I didn't watch last night's game yet but it's on the to-do list today.

Erne was only ever billed as a solid 4th line guy who is strong in the corners. Last year he was stuck playing with guys that couldn't get the puck in the other team's zone and so he wasn't able to play to his strengths. I liked the way he has played with Glendening and Helm. That kind of line allows Erne to play to his strengths.

Erne looked awful for the most time until lately.

I thought that this was one hell of the game. Isn't something like around 40 games we have not beaten them.
I think Zedina had another strong game. Larkin had a strong game and scored a goal. Mantha had a fight. Greiss had a solid game.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

I praised Svechnikov a lot after his strong games. I even went so far and said that he even made Nielsen and Filppula look good.
What is the reason Blashill and Yzerman decided what they did I have no idea. But we all know that Helen reported that he wasn't in the brass' plan.
If you know, please do share.


Erne looked awful for the most time until lately.

I thought that this was one hell of the game. Isn't something like around 40 games we have not beaten them.
I think Zedina had another strong game. Larkin had a strong game and scored a goal. Mantha had a fight. Greiss had a solid game.

Blashill stated svech was benched because Larkin was back and taking svech’s pp spot. And without pp time he wouldn’t get enough minutes to play him.

 

[Gniwder]

I don't know how anyone can look at this team and talk about significant coaching improvements. Sure we are less of a defensive shambles, but then acquiring 3 new defensive defencemen & getting Dekeyser back and now fit will help over having some rotation of Bowey, Biega and retirement level Ericsson and Daley and Green. Offensively some of the depth has improved, but with every player under 26 performing significantly worse than last year, I'm not sure how we can claim the coaching has been anything but a failure, unless tanking is the aim for the coach as well as the GM. And the PP now scoring is like the law of averages when you've just come out of the worst PP slump in years....

Are you watching games?

I'm talking about the last dozen games, not the first dozen. Also, I'm talking about the defensive and transition systems, not the PP which finally started scoring 4 games ago.

The stats are down for a lot of reasons, some of which are Blash's fault, some are not. Point totals are down because of the shitty PP streak, Bert's injury, Zadina getting COVID, and Mantha half-assing it.

But the structure and transitions are improving every game, they gave the Lightning a run for their money for 50 minutes yesterday. Then for the last 10 minutes they collapsed defensively and 5 guys started chasing the puck.

If the system is there, the scoring will follow. I had no hope after the first 10 games, but that has changed because I see the improvement. Yesterday's game was actually worth watching.