Which highly talented, young (young as in, at the right age for full participation in a rebuild) player did Toronto trade a pick in a draft without a likely top-end player (who would be available at their pick) for? Specifically, I mean. Or was that just inane overvaluing of a draft pick without any regard for the players actually available or involved in the trade?
Proposal: Wings land a pick between 4-7 (Trouba)?
- Thread starter Lil Sebastian Cossa
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Which highly talented, young (young as in, at the right age for full participation in a rebuild) player did Toronto trade a pick in a draft without a likely top-end player (who would be available at their pick) for? Specifically, I mean. Or was that just inane overvaluing of a draft pick without any regard for the players actually available or involved in the trade?
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Yeah i would rather wait until both Fowler and Trouba become pending UFAs and hopefully chose to come home and sign them for nothing.
jkutswings
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This. The killer wasn't specifically that the Leafs made several deals; it was that they both dealt away young players that ended up panning out, and in exchange, received vets that stunk.
We can nitpick exactly where Trouba lies on the talent scale, but he's nowhere near as old or awful as the players Toronto acquired during the Burke years, and he helps a facet of the team that's desperately in need of help.
I wouldn't want to trade that pick for Trouba, and Winnipeg wouldn't want to trade Trouba for that pick.
1) Trade down
large gap
2) Use the pick
3) Trade the pick for a current player.
1) Trade down
large gap
2) Use the pick
3) Trade the pick for a current player.
What trades are you referring to? Part of the reason Erat for Forsberg is now able to look so good is that Poile gambled on someone with a lot of question marks while dealing a guy who was pretty reliably in the 20 goal and 50 point areas. Poile assumed a good chunk of risk in this deal, and was fortunate it panned out, and was sort of the opposite to what you seem to be looking for from Holland.
I don't think he is, either, but I think it brings up an interesting conversation in what exactly our pick is worth to us. There's an element to this that feels like that game show where you're given a choice between a new living room set and what's in the box and end up going home with a bucket of ear wax.
I totally get the excitement over the draft, but if we can turn that pick from a "maybe we'll get someone to good" into "we're definitely getting someone good," I really like that option.
Yeah, a lot of the deals really weren't that bad. I mean, they got Phaneuf for Stajan, White, Jamal Mayers, and Hagman. A top pairing D for a load of bottom6 forwards. Off the top of my head the only move Burke clearly whiffed on was dealing for Kessel. But that was a massive whiff.
Conceptually I'm not opposed to trading down but in reality I highly doubt any team will offer enough to make it worth while.
Retire91
Stevey Y you our Guy
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I am referring to the two first's for Kessel trade which is the same circumstance. Kessel is a phenomenal player but they added him to a team that was a complete void of talent by giving up the only resource they had to surround him with talent. Burke was trying to skip a rebuild and make the team an immediate contender by trading away the future, which is in the territory of what this thread is suggesting.
Adding 1 one legit player that is not a #1 to this roster does absolutely nothing and won't successfully shortcut the rebuild that is needed when you trade away the very resources you need to perform a rebuild. I just don't follow the thinking especially when it was shown not to work elsewhere.
Remember this is a GM that spent a first round pick on Kyle Quincey. What do you think WPG will dig out of him for Trouba.
I'd note that the Leafs traded away three premium draft picks, including one in the top two. If the thread was about the #2 overall pick, either Patrick or Hischier, I think the 'yes' faction in this thread would be much smaller. Additionally, if the thread stipulated more than a single draft pick, I think there would be fewer 'yes' folks.
I'd further note the vast, vast ocean of difference in team value between a 1W and a 1D. If the thread were asking if we'd trade #4 for Ehlers, you'd likely see a difference in outcome.
Lastly, if you think Trouba is a 3-4D, then I get not wanting to make the trade - it's poor value for a player of that caliber, and you'd hope that anyone we draft in the top 5 could be a bottom 6er or 2nd pair D. If you think he's a top pairing, and you're saying 'no' because we have some magic beans in a bad draft, with no players who look like they'll be elite, and only two who might be 1Cs, then I can only conclude that you (royal you, not you specifically) are delusional about the value and likely return of a draft pick.
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theD86
Winging it
Tatar and a third round pick for Trouba
Nyquist a third round pick and Mrazek for Erik Karlsson
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nyquist a third round pick and Mrazek for Erik Karlsson
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since you can see into the future, do you see any of our future picks becoming a definite #1?
Retire91
Stevey Y you our Guy
- May 31, 2010
- 6,174
- 1,598
Exactly if the rate for Phil the thrill is 2 firsts + then imagine what the relative version of Phil as a defenseman is going to cost. My point is the defenseman that the wings need is going to cost to much and the defenseman that the wings get with only their first isn't going to cut it as the cornerstone franchise D for a future cup contender. So what is the point of pushing the rebuild out by pushing for this trade? Its more "good enough" mentality that was on the forefront of the red wings decline into irrelevancy.
A pick does not guarantee elite talent, but trading all your chances to acquire elite talent to secure good talent is a recepie for never getting elite talent, or never getting enough to become legit. I can accept being bad if it comes from trying but failing to be great. I can not accept being good by commitment to playing it safe.
I think knowing that Trouba would certainly cost vastly more than just our first, I chose to take the question on it's face: would I trade this one pick for this caliber of player? Absolutely.
That said, I can't imagine what combination of our parts we could offer that would even be slightly intriguing to Winnipeg, so in the real world, I don't think I make the trade on the basis of what I think it would actually cost.
I would also argue that trading a pick for a 23-year old defenseman who, by Jets' fan's accounts, is already a top pairing guy, is hardly playing it safe. Trading our first for Kyle Quincey, on the other hand, was absolutely playing it safe, and I'd have no interest in that plan in any way.
Maybe Trouba is better than I gave him credit for. I had watched maybe one or two games of his, during each of the last two seasons. Would he make the Wings better, probably, enough to push for a playoff seed? That is the question for me. I also if not saying anyone the Wings drafted this year is going to be sure fire better than him. too me, it is a high price too pay. Holland, IMO, should have moved up in one these drafts to draft someone like him or even him. Holland had to know that Lids would retire eventually and he would have to be replaced by one or two other players. Brain R I doubt fault Holland for. Same thing could be said for a number one center. Trade up or trade for one, does it cost a lot yes, but if the Wings had a true number one D and still had Dats or a number one center than I thing the Wings would be in the playoffs this year. Now you hope this years pick turns out good in the next 2-3 years and than next years if it is higher or the same, hope it turns out great in the next 2-3 years. Z will soon not be able to play, FN will slow down, Green who knows if he is a Wing after the next trade dead line. THis could be a long process or if the Wings luck out and draft someone that helps next season and trades for the other piece or signs other pieces that are good than I would be happy.
we're also in a far different position than when we traded for Quincey. We're clearly not in need of just a #4 minute eating D. Even though I was more than ready to move on from Quincey, we got four solid seasons out of him where he reliably ate around 20 minutes a night for us and wasn't a total disaster. While we didn't make out like bandits, I don't think we got bad value for what we gave in that trade.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
I'd be tempted to go this route for two reasons: this draft does not have much top end talent and the Red Wings haven't had a great track record recently when it comes to drafting and development. With Winnipeg trying to get to the next level and become a playoff team I don't really see the value for them in getting younger and waiting to see how the prospect they select develops.
If Trouba really wants out perhaps this is the best deal they will get but I doubt that. There has to be a few teams out there who would trade to feature Trouba and could offer Winnipeg a developed player who can get them to the point where they are a playoff team.
So I would not complain at all if we made this deal. Trouba would flourish here. I just don't think it's a good fit given what Winnipeg would need in order to move a really good young d-man.
WxIxNxGxSxFxAxNx26
Registered User
No thanks. I agree with the idea of waiting until Trouba becomes a FA. Then make a move. Hoping they draft Makar. Kids drawing comparisons to Erik Karlsson. He sure can skate too.
Also, pick 19 is worth a fraction of what a 5-7 pick is. 9 of the 12 teams who picked from 19-30 that year got less than Detroit got by moving their pick for Quincey.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
If Timothy Liljegren is off the boards when we pick, Then i'm definitely on board in going after Cale Makar. He's looking like a special kind of player here.
WxIxNxGxSxFxAxNx26
Registered User
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
In this years draft, even a 2-4 pick isn't going to land you a player of Trouba's caliber. And since he's only 23 you make that trade and don't look back.
NOTHING is available that will be what Trouba already is... and not to mention he's not even at nearing his peak yet.
NOTHING is available that will be what Trouba already is... and not to mention he's not even at nearing his peak yet.
Yes you do it. unfortunately, WPG wont move trouba for just a pick..
Trouba is the guy you hope that pick turn out to be
The guy has made extraordinary steps this year for WPG. His point totals are not to shabby, and will get even better when WPGs staff get their heads out their ***** and figure out how to properly run a PP
Trouba is the guy you hope that pick turn out to be
The guy has made extraordinary steps this year for WPG. His point totals are not to shabby, and will get even better when WPGs staff get their heads out their ***** and figure out how to properly run a PP
I dont think Winnipeg would do that. Unless it's a C or D
Top 6 Winger depth:
Wheeler
Ehlers
Laine
Perrault
Conner (potentially)
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
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