Proposal: Wings land a pick between 4-7 (Trouba)?

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

As hinted at the topic title... if the Wings land a pick outside of the top 3... and Winnipeg is cool with it, do you trade #4OA to them for Trouba?

Do you give up the cheap years of control on a guy like Liljegren for a guy who is currently in his early 20s what you hope teenage Liljegren becomes?

Ken and Paul were talking about this near the end of the Ottawa game last night.

Click to read more...

 

[GBFP]

I wouldn't. Contract being the big issue. You have to trust your scouts and player development when getting a high pick. Trouba isn't a 1A either, that's what this team/organization needs.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I definitely wouldn't. Trouba is a good D and the guy we draft might not even turn out that good but I we need young ELC guys if we're going to navigate our cap woes and I'd rather roll the dice and hope we hit it out of the park. Trouba is a #2/3 D and he'd be great for us but we are too far away from competing for this to be a good idea.

 

[Frk It]

I wouldn't hate it, but I doubt very much that Winnipeg would be interested in this.

I don't love any of the defenseman that are likely going to be available in the 4-7 range, but I don't really love Trouba either.

I'd prefer to draft a forward with the 4-7 pick, and draft a defenseman next year with what I think will likely be another top 10 pick. I like the crop of Dahlin, McIsaac, Merkley, Boqvist next year. Next year looks like a great draft for defenseman.

 

[njx9]

I think the long term cap issues are overblown and irrelevant, and Trouba's contract, vs an ELC, is irrelevant. In reality, I'd trade the pick unless my scouts were telling me that the #4 guy was sure-fire better (I don't think anyone after the top two is particularly close, so I trade the pick).

That said, I don't think Winnipeg touches it.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think the long term cap issues are overblown and irrelevant, and Trouba's contract, vs an ELC, is irrelevant. In reality, I'd trade the pick unless my scouts were telling me that the #4 guy was sure-fire better (I don't think anyone after the top two is particularly close, so I trade the pick).

That said, I don't think Winnipeg touches it.

I too think the Peg would demand more, unless there was some risk of being forced to expose him in the expansion draft. I presume they would expose Myers first. I think there is an 80% chance that Trouba is better than whoever we draft between 4-7 FWIW.

 

[Winger98]

Yes, and you don't think twice about it. He fits a massive need and is already likely a better player than anyone we draft. His cap is less than $3m next season, giving us another year to move a different contract off our books or just for the cap to go up another couple of million.

I just don't see any serious downside to trading our first for a guy like Trouba. He'd fit this organization to a T right now and be a godsend.

 

[Winger98]

I too think the Peg would demand more, unless there was some risk of being forced to expose him in the expansion draft. I presume they would expose Myers first. I think there is an 80% chance that Trouba is better than whoever we draft between 4-7 FWIW.

Yeah, I also think Winny would want more. Something I was kicking around in my head was 1st + Dekeyser for Trouba+. I just don't know what Winnipeg would add, but I thought they were looking for a left D at some point.

 

[Retire91]

Na, Toronto started trading their 1st rounders for immediate help and...

 

[Winger98]

he's 23. He'll be an immediate help...and continue to be a foundation piece for another 10+ years. Edmonton held onto their picks every year and was crap until they lucked out on McDavid.

 

[ricky0034]

nope

Trouba may very well end up being the better player but the fact of the matter is that the Wings need someone better than Trouba and there's only one way that's happening

 

[Frk It]

Yeah, I also think Winny would want more. Something I was kicking around in my head was 1st + Dekeyser for Trouba+. I just don't know what Winnipeg would add, but I thought they were looking for a left D at some point.

What Winnipeg would add? I don't think any team is adding for 5 million dollar, 12 point, -21 Danny Dekeyser. Would be surprised if he even has positive trade value at this point.

 

[Winger98]

What Winnipeg would add? I don't think any team is adding for 5 million dollar, 12 point, -21 Danny Dekeyser. Would be surprised if he even has positive trade value at this point.

Then just let them have Dekeyser, if you really think he's that bad.

 

[Frk It]

Then just let them have Dekeyser, if you really think he's that bad.

I'd be fine with that, I just don't think he is going to move the needle in a trade right now. All I was saying.

 

[BinCookin]

The reality much to the surprise of HFBoards users is this:

Trouba is worth our 1st + a solid player.

Likely 1st + Mantha
Or 1st + Tatar?

Don't like it? Then don't trade our first.

Simple answer, yes i would do this deal in the OP without a second thought! (Jets absolutely would not, and should not do that deal)

 

[Winger98]

I'd be fine with that, I just don't think he is going to move the needle in a trade right now. All I was saying.

Which is fair enough, I just wouldn't let it stand in the way of making a move for Trouba at that point.

The only thing I'm not getting is this idea that we shouldn't make any moves because we might, at some point, have the opportunity to maybe draft someone better if we just suck enough. I get not dealing our 1st for some guys in his thirties and on the back half of his career, but a guy like Trouba? Are we that desperate to be a miserable franchise for the next several years?

 

[CaptainChef]

The reality much to the surprise of HFBoards users is this:

Trouba is worth our 1st + a solid player.

Likely 1st + Mantha
Or 1st + Tatar?

Don't like it? Then don't trade our first.

Simple answer, yes i would do this deal in the OP without a second thought! (Jets absolutely would not, and should not do that deal)

Thank you - the voice of reason has spoken. Trouba has had a phenomenal season & is every bit a #1D; if he keeps playing like this, he's in every way a franchise D. No way we trade him unless he absolutely wants out & the lineup of suitors would be long and return much higher than a first.

Consensus on our board is he deserves a 8 X 7.5 contract right now & it could be even higher.

 

[wings95]

I would not do this. Yes Trouba is good but like someone said
already he is a 2-3 while the Wings need a 1 and 2. The
Wings need to keep the pick and draft either a player that can fill a number one
center role or a number one D. Now if the Jets would take Tatr or
Gus plus a 2019 first or one of the seconds than I am on board. Doubt that though.
Trouba would be better than the prospect for 1-3 years but his money and he is just a better righty DD? Does Trouba have the offense to help the Wings?

 

[Maukkis]

As hinted at the topic title... if the Wings land a pick outside of the top 3... and Winnipeg is cool with it, do you trade #4OA to them for Trouba?

Do you give up the cheap years of control on a guy like Liljegren for a guy who is currently in his early 20s what you hope teenage Liljegren becomes?

Ken and Paul were talking about this near the end of the Ottawa game last night.

Ken and Paul would be very hopeful, talking about something that is simply unrealistic. Winnipeg wants to see some progress, not blow up their defense by trading away their best defenseman.

I wouldn't. Contract being the big issue. You have to trust your scouts and player development when getting a high pick. Trouba isn't a 1A either, that's what this team/organization needs.

If, after three years of team control, Trouba's contract becomes an issue, the problem lies within your organization, not Trouba.

I definitely wouldn't. Trouba is a good D and the guy we draft might not even turn out that good but I we need young ELC guys if we're going to navigate our cap woes and I'd rather roll the dice and hope we hit it out of the park. Trouba is a #2/3 D and he'd be great for us but we are too far away from competing for this to be a good idea.

Fair enough. What I would want to correct is that Trouba's much, much closer to a 1D than 3D.

I wouldn't hate it, but I doubt very much that Winnipeg would be interested in this.

I don't love any of the defenseman that are likely going to be available in the 4-7 range, but I don't really love Trouba either.

I'd prefer to draft a forward with the 4-7 pick, and draft a defenseman next year with what I think will likely be another top 10 pick. I like the crop of Dahlin, McIsaac, Merkley, Boqvist next year. Next year looks like a great draft for defenseman.

There is less than zero interest from Winnipeg. And as you said, if you want to bottom out to draft a defenseman, there is a wonderful opportunity for that next year.

I think the long term cap issues are overblown and irrelevant, and Trouba's contract, vs an ELC, is irrelevant. In reality, I'd trade the pick unless my scouts were telling me that the #4 guy was sure-fire better (I don't think anyone after the top two is particularly close, so I trade the pick).

That said, I don't think Winnipeg touches it.

Based on multiple reports on this year's prospects' ceilings, I'd assume that a player projected to be as good as Trouba is now would likely be in the mix for 1st OA. This is a shocking draft class in terms of the top guys.

I too think the Peg would demand more, unless there was some risk of being forced to expose him in the expansion draft. I presume they would expose Myers first. I think there is an 80% chance that Trouba is better than whoever we draft between 4-7 FWIW.

No team would ever contemplate exposing Trouba in the ED, no matter what the circumstances are.

Yes, and you don't think twice about it. He fits a massive need and is already likely a better player than anyone we draft. His cap is less than $3m next season, giving us another year to move a different contract off our books or just for the cap to go up another couple of million.

I just don't see any serious downside to trading our first for a guy like Trouba. He'd fit this organization to a T right now and be a godsend.

Yep. It is rarely a bad thing to add a young, cheap top pairing defenseman on the upswing. If only you had a similar player available for us, there could be something.

Yeah, I also think Winny would want more. Something I was kicking around in my head was 1st + Dekeyser for Trouba+. I just don't know what Winnipeg would add, but I thought they were looking for a left D at some point.

Your organization lacks the type of asset we would want back for Trouba, which, ironically, is a clone of Jacob Trouba. That asset is not DeKeyser, nor is it Liljegren. Unless this asset magically appears, there is nothing to discuss.

Na, Toronto started trading their 1st rounders for immediate help and...

Do you remember how San Jose, a team who was written off by most before the season started, dishing out their unprotected first rounder for Martin Jones? Which one has been more impactful, Dougie Hamilton or the first rounder that Calgary traded to Boston? How about Ryan Kesler?

Sometimes you miss, and when you're talking about the Leafs before the house cleaning, you might even miss often. But because someone screwed up in the past doesn't mean that it is an universal truth.

he's 23. He'll be an immediate help...and continue to be a foundation piece for another 10+ years. Edmonton held onto their picks every year and was crap until they lucked out on McDavid.

True.

nope

Trouba may very well end up being the better player but the fact of the matter is that the Wings need someone better than Trouba and there's only one way that's happening

Which is? Relying on the very slim chance of acquiring that player from this year's draft?

What Winnipeg would add? I don't think any team is adding for 5 million dollar, 12 point, -21 Danny Dekeyser. Would be surprised if he even has positive trade value at this point.

There is no trade between us two which involves Trouba.

Then just let them have Dekeyser, if you really think he's that bad.

Not in a million years.

I'd be fine with that, I just don't think he is going to move the needle in a trade right now. All I was saying.

Said it above.



You will not find a Jets fan, player, coach or GM who says yes to any deal involving Trouba.

 

[Frk It]

Which is fair enough, I just wouldn't let it stand in the way of making a move for Trouba at that point.

The only thing I'm not getting is this idea that we shouldn't make any moves because we might, at some point, have the opportunity to maybe draft someone better if we just suck enough. I get not dealing our 1st for some guys in his thirties and on the back half of his career, but a guy like Trouba? Are we that desperate to be a miserable franchise for the next several years?

I do get that logic, and I do get where you are coming from. In an ideal world, you would draft a new wave of players, control their ELC years, and negotiate their bridge deals. So in that context, Trouba is not an ideal fit. Trouba is young, but Trouba will probably be 30 by the time this team is good again. In all honesty.

But for those that don't want to be awful for the next 5 years and stockpile picks, I can understand wanting a guy like Trouba to come in and be an instant upgrade to the team.

 

[njx9]

I do get that logic, and I do get where you are coming from. In an ideal world, you would draft a new wave of players, control their ELC years, and negotiate their bridge deals. So in that context, Trouba is not an ideal fit. Trouba is young, but Trouba will probably be 30 by the time this team is good again. In all honesty.

As will Mantha (only a year younger). Would you trade him for the #4 overall this year?

I don't think him being 30 by the time we have enough forward talent to do anything is really an issue. That still means he'd have a few years of pretty high level play (in all likelihood, with a few more of good play), and additionally resolves one of the two things the team needs most. If he were 26ish now, then yeah, no matter how good he is, there'd be little point if you didn't see a quick turnaround.

 

[Winger98]

I do get that logic, and I do get where you are coming from. In an ideal world, you would draft a new wave of players, control their ELC years, and negotiate their bridge deals. So in that context, Trouba is not an ideal fit. Trouba is young, but Trouba will probably be 30 by the time this team is good again. In all honesty.

But for those that don't want to be awful for the next 5 years and stockpile picks, I can understand wanting a guy like Trouba to come in and be an instant upgrade to the team.

For me, it's not wanting to not be bad for five years...it's that there isn't a guarantee at the end of those five years that we'll be good. If we can grab a guy like Trouba at a reasonable cost now, I think you do it, and continue to sort the rest out as you can.

It seems as if there is this belief that we're guaranteed to fall to the very bottom of the league where we'll just draft our next batch of superstars before returning to the top of the league where we belong.

If we're really so bad that we're essentially guaranteed a bottom5 spot next year, as many on here have either suggested outright or intimated, I don't think Trouba really changes that. At the same time, if we are drafting in the top5, we're probably getting guys who should be making the league - and being pretty good players - within a year or two. Which would be well-within Trouba's career.

If we're not going to be good within the next seven years regardless of what we do, we may as well trade everyone, because they're all going to be nearing thirty at that point and apparently we'll still be lousy.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

I don't see Winnipeg being cool with it. I'd do this in a heartbeat, but I don't see this scenario realistically being presented at all any time soon.

 

[Martinez]

I'd do it. No way the jets do it without us adding

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I would not do this. Yes Trouba is good but like someone said
already he is a 2-3 while the Wings need a 1 and 2. The
Wings need to keep the pick and draft either a player that can fill a number one
center role or a number one D. Now if the Jets would take Tatr or
Gus plus a 2019 first or one of the seconds than I am on board. Doubt that though.
Trouba would be better than the prospect for 1-3 years but his money and he is just a better righty DD? Does Trouba have the offense to help the Wings?

Trouba is not already a 2-3. That was a year ago. He is not a 1-2 either. He is simply a #1. Top 20 in the league. Offense? He is scoring at a 44 pt pace this year.

You don't get Trouba for 4OA. In this year's draft you don't get him for 1OA.

The odds of that prospect ever matching Trouba are slim.