Proposal: Wings - Habs Blockbuster Trade

[redwings25]

mantha and aa fit detriots rebiuld perfectly so no way are they for sale. z is there captain and will retire a wing. green will be for sale if detriot is out of the playoff race at the deadline but if there not kenny will try to add a vet and go for the playoffs. i personally wouldnt trade mantha for all you offered since i think he will be better than any of them.

 

[Jared Dunn]

mantha and aa fit detriots rebiuld perfectly so no way are they for sale. z is there captain and will retire a wing. green will be for sale if detriot is out of the playoff race at the deadline but if there not kenny will try to add a vet and go for the playoffs. i personally wouldnt trade mantha for all you offered since i think he will be better than any of them.

Well, it was reasonable until this point

 

[Brock Radunske]

Wings Trade:
- Zetterberg
- Green
- Mantha
- AA

Habs Trade:
- Galchenyuk
- 2018 1st
- Juulsen
- McCarron
- Shaw ($1M retained for the next 2 years)
- Davidson

Key points:
- Wings get the much needed cap space they need and multiple young assets to help the rebuild
- Habs get the top 2 center we are looking for. Zetterberg from age 37-40 but who knows if he plays in the last two years where his salary drops to $1M
- Main parts each team gets: Galchenyuk, 2018 1st, Juulsen, McCarron = Zetterberg, Mantha, AA, Green (one year)
- Habs add about $5M in salary while the Wings save $5M (+/-)

Fair trade and how do the Wings fans feel about it?

So Detroit gives up all the best pieces?
Habs fans have to realize that Juulsen and McCarron don't have a ton of value around the league. But let me guess, that package contains "basically" 4 first round picks, and two decent roster players, right?

 

[TT1]

Yes, but a season of a good top six forward still returns a fair amount, I think Juulsen would be that price honestly. I think Mantha + AA has a bit more value than Galchenyuk, and Green has a bit more value than a late 1st. I also don't think Shaw and Davidson have any value at all

EDIT: For the record, don't think this would be a smart move for either side to make as I still don't think it makes Montreal a top contender, but it definitely favours the Habs from both a needs and value perspective

If you think Juulsen is worth half a season of Zetterberg then we have nothing more to talk about, Zetterberg has absolutely no value and to argue otherwise is laughable.

And your argument for the other values i listed is "i think theyre worth a little more" (basically trying to save face after saying the deal "looks pretty AWFUL for Detroit". But yea it's a bit funny how you went from calling it an "awful deal for Detroit" to what you said in your last post (don't think this would be a smart move for either side) after i broke down the trade.

In reality this is a bad trade for us and i wouldn't touch it.

 

[Tatar Shots]

You realize that Zetterberg is retiring after this season right?

Tell me where i'm wrong in this assessment and i'll agree with you:

Mantha + AA = Galchenyuk
Green = 1st
Zetterberg for Juulsen, McCarron, Shaw, Davidson (and why would we do this or even trade for Zetterberg when he's retiring soon? makes no sense, he has no value)

This is a better way of framing the deal. I wouldn't trade Mantha + AA for Galchenyuk. I'd rather see how Mantha compares to Galchenyuk in his second full season. I don't think the difference will be AA. Green for a 1st is reasonable and is comparable to recent deadline deals for point producing PMD. I don't think a bit more/less is something to argue over theoretically. I can also see why you don't see the value in trading for Zetterberg. But also realize from Detroit he is the face of the franchise, Captain and heart and soul of the team, and will go down as one of the top players in franchise history. I understand not wanting to trade for him, but it's an incredibly tough pill to swallow for the Wings when there is no 'wow' to the return for a franchise icon who wants to finish his career here.

 

[Jared Dunn]

If you think Juulsen is worth half a season of Zetterberg then we have nothing more to talk about, Zetterberg has absolutely no value and to argue otherwise is laughable.

And your argument for the other values i listed is "i think their worth a little more" (basically trying to save face after saying the deal "looks pretty AWFUL for Detroit". But yea it's a bit funny how you went from calling it an "awful deal for Detroit" to what you said in your last post (don't think this would be a smart move for either side) after i broke down the trade.

In reality this is a bad trade for us and i wouldn't touch it.

The gap between Mantha and Galchenyuk is not AA, Green will return more than 1 st at the deadline likely being the best D available.

I don't think it would be a good trade for Montreal because they still won't be good enough to seriously compete, and I don't think it's a good trade for Detroit because it's bad value.

I'm genuinely curious what you think top six rentals return? Zetterberg almost got 70 points last year and he's the face of the franchise, but no value. lol.

 

[redwings25]

to a team going for the cup z has pretty big value. say if the oil traded prospects and pick for z and green they would go from a playoff team to a serious cup contender. if you dont think that has value i dont know what to tell you

 

[TT1]

This is a better way of framing the deal. I wouldn't trade Mantha + AA for Galchenyuk. I'd rather see how Mantha compares to Galchenyuk in his second full season. I don't think the difference will be AA. Green for a 1st is reasonable and is comparable to recent deadline deals for point producing PMD. I don't think a bit more/less is something to argue over theoretically. I can also see why you don't see the value in trading for Zetterberg. But also realize from Detroit he is the face of the franchise, Captain and heart and soul of the team, and will go down as one of the top players in franchise history. I understand not wanting to trade for him, but it's an incredibly tough pill to swallow for the Wings when there is no 'wow' to the return for a franchise icon who wants to finish his career here.

The difference between the proposed Galchenyuk for Mantha + AA value is subjective (depends on bias/fanbases etc.), at worse there's like a ~2nd round difference depending on who you ask. Personally i wouldn't even trade Galchenyuk for Mantha + AA (and i'm not a big fan of Galchenyuk but i still acknowledge his potential and his trade value as a young 30 goal scorer) but i was trying to find something close that most people who agree on.

In any case, it still doesn't make up for all the pieces we're giving up for a value-less Zetterberg. So in what world can the posters in this thread call this a bad trade for Detroit after i clearly broke down each piece and their value. Can we chalk this up to more anti-Habs HF bias?

 

[Jared Dunn]

The difference between the proposed Galchenyuk for Mantha + AA value is subjective (depends on bias/fanbases etc.), at worse there's like a ~2nd round difference depending on who you ask. Personally i wouldn't even trade Galchenyuk for Mantha + AA but i was trying to find something close that most people who agree on.

In any case, it still doesn't make up for all the pieces we're giving up for a value-less Zetterberg. So in what world can the posters in this thread call this a bad trade for Detroit after i clearly broke down each piece and their value. Can we chalk this up to more anti-Habs HF bias?

Because it's certainly not possible that you're also biased, right? I'll admit when you broke it down it wasn't as far apart as i originally thought, but the value still favours Montreal

 

[Ishad]

What is this garbage?

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

Habs 1st is the only piece in the OP that I'm even remotely interested in.

 

[TT1]

Because it's certainly not possible that you're also biased, right? I'll admit when you broke it down it wasn't as far apart as i originally thought, but the value still favours Montreal

In what way? Did you see the pieces we're giving up for Zetterberg? HE'S NOT WORTH A.N.Y.T.H.I.N.G. He's retiring after this year, he has NO VALUE.

All those pieces added to the Galchenyuk for Mantha + AA part of the trade would make this deal insanely lopsided for Detroit, i hope you can see that right?

This is why making big proposals is a bad idea, most people can't evaluate trade proposals properly. Just keep it small and simple, it makes it way easier to assess proper trade values.

 

[Jared Dunn]

In what way? Did you see the pieces we're giving up for Zetterberg? HE'S NOT WORTH A.N.Y.T.H.I.N.G. He's retiring after this year, he has NO VALUE.

Does this season just not exist???? Do you think teams just give away rentals for free?

You're trying to make me look unreasonable, but saying Zetterberg has zero value for this season is the most unreasonable take in this whole thread

 

[Tatar Shots]

The difference between the proposed Galchenyuk for Mantha + AA value is subjective (depends on bias/fanbases etc.), at worse there's like a ~2nd round difference depending on who you ask. Personally i wouldn't even trade Galchenyuk for Mantha + AA (and i'm not a big fan of Galchenyuk but i still acknowledge his potential and his trade value as a young 30 goal scorer) but i was trying to find something close that most people who agree on.

In any case, it still doesn't make up for all the pieces we're giving up for a value-less Zetterberg. So in what world can the posters in this thread call this a bad trade for Detroit after i clearly broke down each piece and their value. Can we chalk this up to more anti-Habs HF bias?

You realize Mantha outproduced Galchenyuk at even strength last year right? He is going to get consistent power play time this year. He already has only 1 less power play point this year through 1 game then he did all of last year. They both scored 17 goals last year. Yes Galchenyuk did hit 30 goals once, but Mantha easily has potential to hit 30 going forward as well. I don't see the value of Detroit adding AA on top of Mantha for Galchenyuk. I'm not even arguing he is just as valuable now, just that adding AA on top seems rather ridiculous.

 

[TT1]

Does this season just not exist???? Do you think teams just give away rentals for free?

You're trying to make me look unreasonable, but saying Zetterberg has zero value for this season is the most unreasonable take in this whole thread

People give up assets for rentals because there's also the hope of re-signing them. When you essentially know that Zetterberg is retiring that makes him much less desirable.

Now I'm sure GMs around the league love Zetterberg as a player, i'm sure someone would trade for him and they'd probably give up an asset for him in order to make a cup run for 1 year (saying he has no value is an over-exaggeration on my part.. i'll agree to that). But he most definitely isn't getting a 1st back (we've seen how stingy GMs have been in past years at the deadline), at most he's getting a 2nd and that's practically nothing compared to all the assets we're offering for him.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

You realize that Zetterberg is retiring after this season right?

Tell me where i'm wrong in this assessment and i'll agree with you:

Mantha + AA = Galchenyuk
Green = 1st
Zetterberg for Juulsen, McCarron, Shaw, Davidson (and why would we do this or even trade for Zetterberg when he's retiring soon? makes no sense, he has no value)

Dude Zetterberg isn't retiring after this season? Where do you come up with that, He said 2 more years depending how his health holds out but still is planning on playing out his 4 year contract if his health stays good but he never said that he was retiring after this season. Obviously you don't know what you're saying here.

 

[njx9]

Wouldn't trade Mantha alone for that. Don't care if it favors the Habs or not, no part of this is in Detroit's interest, so it's an easy, easy pass.

And Z having "no value" followed by a complaint about anti-Habs bias? Lol.

 

[Jared Dunn]

People give up assets for rentals because there's also the hope of re-signing them. When you essentially know that Zetterberg is retiring that makes him much less desirable.

Now I'm sure GMs around the league love Zetterberg as a player, i'm sure someone would trade for him and they'd probably give up an asset for him in order to make a cup run for 1 year (saying he has no value is an over-exaggeration on my part.. i'll agree to that). But he most definitely isn't getting a 1st back (we've seen how stingy GMs have been in past years at the deadline), at most he's getting a 2nd and that's practically nothing compared to all the assets we're offering for him.

We are clearly really apart on this, and I don't think either of us is moving any closer tbh.

The one thing I'll say, is I think you're sorely mistaken on Zetterberg and the point of rentals in general. Teams don't really trade for rentals with the expectation of resigning, they trade for them to put them over the top. Besides Duchene, Zetterberg would probably be the best forward available for trade if made available. Detroit isn't going to trade him so it's a moot point, but I'd bet a lot that they'd get a 1st+ for him if they did.

 

[TT1]

Dude Zetterberg isn't retiring after this season? Where do you come up with that, He said 2 more years depending how his health holds out but still is planning on playing out his 4 year contract if his health stays good but he never said that he was retiring after this season. Obviously you don't know what you're saying here.

EVEN if it's 2 years i wouldn't give up all those assets for him..

The easiest thing to do is just to take out Zetterberg from this offer, you guys can keep him

 

[Rare Jewel]

I think Mantha for Galchenyuk is pretty good basis for a trade actually.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

- Mantha = 2018 1st, McCarron: You forgot to consider the 1st in the package

- AA = Juulsen, Davidson: Considering the Wings are having a hard time getting AA under contract and they are up against the cap, this is a great return for AA IMO.

Galchenyuk > Zetterberg: You must factor in age and contract AAV. One player is just touching his prime years and the other is going to be age 37-40 in then next 4 years of his contract

Shaw (Salary Retain) vs Green: If you want to make this a deal breaker, your not debating in good faith.

Lol any one thinking that Mantha's value is McCarron+2108 1st rounder most Hab fans were telling me that McCarron is a likely bust why? Would we want McCarron when we just drafted a similar player to him in Michael Rasmussen other then McCarron being from Detroit and all. I'll bet any Hab fan here that over the course of their career that Mantha will have a better career then Drouin. And even Drouin returned Sergachev no way does McCarron plus a mid teen 2018 1st round pick net you a player of Anthony Mantha's caliber you're easily talking Galchenyuk to get Mantha.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

EVEN if it's 2 years i wouldn't give up all those assets for him..

The easiest thing to do is just to take out Zetterberg from this offer, you guys can keep him

And that's fine, Because weren't moving Zetterberg he's our captain and franchise player. If he were to request a trade for one last cup run. Then maybe we would oblige him there. But i seriously doubt he would ever request it.

 

[Jared Dunn]

I think Mantha for Galchenyuk is pretty good basis for a trade actually.

Pretty pointless for both sides to make honestly, and huge risk/reward on both sides

 

[Habs Halifax]

So Detroit gives up all the best pieces?
Habs fans have to realize that Juulsen and McCarron don't have a ton of value around the league. But let me guess, that package contains "basically" 4 first round picks, and two decent roster players, right?

You forgot to mentioned Galchenyuk and the 1st which is the biggest part of the trade you are gettign back. Juulsen and McCarron are solid prospects but yeah, they are definitely not the blue chip types. You make it seem like Juulsen and McCarron types are never part of any trade before.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lol any one thinking that Mantha's value is McCarron+2108 1st rounder most Hab fans were telling me that McCarron is a likely bust why? Would we want McCarron when we just drafted a similar player to him in Michael Rasmussen other then McCarron being from Detroit and all. I'll bet any Hab fan here that over the course of their career that Mantha will have a better career then Drouin. And even Drouin returned Sergachev no way does McCarron plus a mid teen 2018 1st round pick net you a player of Anthony Mantha's caliber you're easily talking Galchenyuk to get Mantha.

- You forgot to talk about how much value a 2018 1st round pick has.

- This trade is about this: Galchenyuk, 2018 1st, Juulsen, McCarron for Zetterberg, Mantha, AA. But you can focus on McCarron and add on's if you want