Windsor Spitfires 2018 Offseason Thread

[OHL4Life]

What I said was Windsor has had "pretty solid history of finding talent in the later rounds, too." This goes back to when Rychel and Boughner took over. While there was a significant lull in the action during one stretch, they've still had success with later round players. To me, success is playing a regular OHL shift and contributing to the team. A guy like Locke was tremendous, but to say "a lot of teams" have had a player like him (late round + 40+g) is incorrect. Windsor hasn't been able to capitalize on all of their top-round talents but there is a history of finding talents in the later rounds. It doesn't make up for it, but it doesn't hurt them, either.



He posted this as I was posting; it furthers my point, though.

again, i left all rookies off, we could add more to other teams.

how do you efine pretty solid history. again, in the last 8 years they've had one player. other teams have more players this year. you have to admit thats pretty broad definition. probably no mistake that they didnt' have any high pics the last two yours that now all of a sudden late round pics make the team.

im not a sky is falling type, i like numbers and facts to look at points, i dont get how windsor has 'solid history' in finding late round talent, if they are solid, teams that have guys who are actually good, like formenton, durzi, holowell etc, what are they? are they great? im trying to understand the context of your statement.

 

[OHLTG]

stevenson may stick around, sirman very well could be a one and done, im not sure either of those players makes many teams this year.

They could also become valuable pieces in the rebuild, right? If we're going to do the "they could be" approach, why not think on the better side?

you have to admit thats pretty broad definition.

It's a broad definition because there's no one way to define success with a player at this level. A kid like Taylor Hall was successful by going high in the NHL draft. A kid like Saverio Posa was successful by becoming a leader on the Spitfires and creating a legitimate hockey career for himself. One had tremendous points, the other was a defensive gem. Give me 2-3 Posa's for any game and we've got a solid chance to win.

The point I was trying to make was, while Windsor has had issues with some of their higher picks over the years (whether it be they didn't make it far in the OHL or they were removed due to sanctions), they have done well with mid-round and later-round picks. You'll always need guys who were chosen outside of the top three rounds.

 

[OHL4Life]

They could also become valuable pieces in the rebuild, right? If we're going to do the "they could be" approach, why not think on the better side?



It's a broad definition because there's no one way to define success with a player at this level. A kid like Taylor Hall was successful by going high in the NHL draft. A kid like Saverio Posa was successful by becoming a leader on the Spitfires and creating a legitimate hockey career for himself. One had tremendous points, the other was a defensive gem. Give me 2-3 Posa's for any game and we've got a solid chance to win.

The point I was trying to make was, while Windsor has had issues with some of their higher picks over the years (whether it be they didn't make it far in the OHL or they were removed due to sanctions), they have done well with mid-round and later-round picks. You'll always need guys who were chosen outside of the top three rounds.

100 percent they 'could' be good, but if you look at the history of 3rd year camp invites, theres a reason why they never make it. the spits have 2 in one year. the stats would say that its pretty significant odds that they dont make it. i like stevenson, so i think theres value there, but sirman, well see. pretty average numbers in jr a. sirman doesnt make many teams in the o, he doesnt make london, os, kit, etc. and thats ok, but its more of an opportunity spot versus an earned one, he didnt have many 00/01s to beat out. thats also why all the fa's are here, no picks in the last few years.

windsor has done fine with mid to later round picks, but its not like they have done better then anyone else, really they have done worse if you look at the guys on other teams that have performed. the spits dont have a guy like forementon, durzi, chiodo, hollowell in a while. you can understand why when you say the spits have done well, and havent had a guy like those mentioned in years, that id be curious about the statement. again, if the spits are doing well, those teams must be doing great.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

So is there not some type of in between being a productive player and being a 40 goal scorer that was a late pick?

Formenton 11th round pick London, 2nd round pick by Ottawa
McEwan 9th round pick Guelph averaging 45 points per season last 2 seasons
TJ Fergus 8th round pick Erie
Jack Kopacka 8th round pick Soo, 4th round pick Anaheim
Jordan Sambrook 10th round pick Erie, 5th round pick Detroit
Cam Dineen 11th round pick NB, 3rd round pick Arizona
Vince Dunn 6th round pick Niagara, 2nd round pick St Louis
Alex Nedeljkovic 6th round pick Plymouth. 2nd round Carolina
Frank Hora 8th round pick Kitchener
Quentin Maksimovich 11th round Erie

All productive players in the OHL over the past 4-5 drafts from 8 different teams. Then there are other guys like Durzi round 12 OS, Murray 8th round Barrie. That's over half the league with a late find. So yes a lot of teams have had significant finds late in the draft. The thing is teams like the Soo/London/Erie/OS have drafted well in the early rounds and those late finds are luxuries. As OHL4Life has said they have to absolutely hit on their 1st/2nd round picks if you don't it really doesn't matter if you find a guy in round 10 because you probably need to find another in round 7 and round 6 to come even close to overcoming punting a 1st or 2nd rounder.

 

[hockeylegend11]

OHL4Life

I only mentioned the Spitfire players as examples of guys drafted in the 9th or 10th round for 3 of them making the team, whether they wind up being solid guys is unknown at this point.
I noticed you mentioned Purboo was pointless in the Mem Cup,plus the 7 games in the playoffs too, made the comparison to Formenton,who was drafted,what you failed to mention that Formenton had zero points in 14 games for London.
Goes to show points aren't always the true measure to getting drafted,it's other things pros see as well.

 

[OHL4Life]

So is there not some type of in between being a productive player and being a 40 goal scorer that was a late pick?

Formenton 11th round pick London, 2nd round pick by Ottawa
McEwan 9th round pick Guelph averaging 45 points per season last 2 seasons
TJ Fergus 8th round pick Erie
Jack Kopacka 8th round pick Soo, 4th round pick Anaheim
Jordan Sambrook 10th round pick Erie, 5th round pick Detroit
Cam Dineen 11th round pick NB, 3rd round pick Arizona
Vince Dunn 6th round pick Niagara, 2nd round pick St Louis
Alex Nedeljkovic 6th round pick Plymouth. 2nd round Carolina
Frank Hora 8th round pick Kitchener
Quentin Maksimovich 11th round Erie

All productive players in the OHL over the past 4-5 drafts from 8 different teams. Then there are other guys like Durzi round 12 OS, Murray 8th round Barrie. That's over half the league with a late find. So yes a lot of teams have had significant finds late in the draft. The thing is teams like the Soo/London/Erie/OS have drafted well in the early rounds and those late finds are luxuries. As OHL4Life has said they have to absolutely hit on their 1st/2nd round picks if you don't it really doesn't matter if you find a guy in round 10 because you probably need to find another in round 7 and round 6 to come even close to overcoming punting a 1st or 2nd rounder.

im just trying to understand how all those teams have those players drafted late, and windosr has none, how windsor could be considered to be good at finding mid to late round pic types. like i said, if windsor is good, those other teams must be great. windsor hasnt had an impactful guy drafted late in 8 years. thats fine, they still won, so why bring up the point when so many other teams seem to be better at it then windsor. posa and locke where two different rebuilds ago.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

So is there not some type of in between being a productive player and being a 40 goal scorer that was a late pick?

Formenton 11th round pick London, 2nd round pick by Ottawa
McEwan 9th round pick Guelph averaging 45 points per season last 2 seasons
TJ Fergus 8th round pick Erie
Jack Kopacka 8th round pick Soo, 4th round pick Anaheim
Jordan Sambrook 10th round pick Erie, 5th round pick Detroit
Cam Dineen 11th round pick NB, 3rd round pick Arizona
Vince Dunn 6th round pick Niagara, 2nd round pick St Louis
Alex Nedeljkovic 6th round pick Plymouth. 2nd round Carolina
Frank Hora 8th round pick Kitchener
Quentin Maksimovich 11th round Erie

All productive players in the OHL over the past 4-5 drafts from 8 different teams. Then there are other guys like Durzi round 12 OS, Murray 8th round Barrie. That's over half the league with a late find. So yes a lot of teams have had significant finds late in the draft. The thing is teams like the Soo/London/Erie/OS have drafted well in the early rounds and those late finds are luxuries. As OHL4Life has said they have to absolutely hit on their 1st/2nd round picks if you don't it really doesn't matter if you find a guy in round 10 because you probably need to find another in round 7 and round 6 to come even close to overcoming punting a 1st or 2nd rounder.

Interesting of all the players and their respective teams,only 1 team has won a Memorial Cup since 2009 besides Windsor (3), London(1)
Besides drafting, trading is the very important too,3 cups in 9 years is proof no other team can match.

 

[windsor7]

same answers to the same questions......
Rinse and repeat.
Rinse and repeat.

Rose colored glasses.

 

[OHL4Life]

Interesting of all the players and their respective teams,only 1 team has won a Memorial Cup since 2009 besides Windsor (3), London(1)
Besides drafting, trading is the very important too,3 cups in 9 years is proof no other team can match.

but we weren't talking about that? ohltg made a statement, we where discussing a statement. still trying to figure that statement t out when looking at other teams

I'm curious, you called the Knights the back door knights for years, i think you try to be the balancedand I use to love your posts, but shouldn't you also call the spits backdoor? I mean fair is fair. I don't care about that stuff, but you made such a big deal about it, but you dont mention it here. i just miss the more balanced approach you use to take on things is all.

 

[OHL4Life]

same answers to the same questions......
Rinse and repeat.
Rinse and repeat.

Rose colored glasses.

let's not troll people. if you don't like the posters why read? we should be able to disagree but still be decent to each other

 

[aresknights]

This year you will see Brock Baier drafted in the 10th(2016), Thomas Stevenson (10th)-2015, and William Sirman in the (14th)-2015 on the team, plus Cole Purboo was drafted in 2015 in the 9th, just saying.

Will they make a significant impact thou? In terms of OHL players.
They will make it (Ill take your word on that) because of so many openings on tbe roster.
A couple of those kids are 2 years post draft. If they were impact kids they'd a been up draft year or draft year plus one. (yes I know host year n all)
Baier has a chance at making an impact, if DiPi is moved, but he has still gotta prove it. The others Id guess are just filler until the roster is turned over in rebuild.

 

[OHLTG]

100 percent they 'could' be good, but if you look at the history of 3rd year camp invites, theres a reason why they never make it. the spits have 2 in one year. the stats would say that its pretty significant odds that they dont make it. i like stevenson, so i think theres value there, but sirman, well see. pretty average numbers in jr a. sirman doesnt make many teams in the o, he doesnt make london, os, kit, etc. and thats ok, but its more of an opportunity spot versus an earned one, he didnt have many 00/01s to beat out. thats also why all the fa's are here, no picks in the last few years.

Sirman has shown consistent offence since the start of camp. While I don't expect him to be a 40-goal player this year, Legend and I both took notice that he's showing something. I'm curious to see if he can translate it to the regular season. As far as him making the other teams - London, OS, Kit are all expected to be contenders this year. On a rebuilding club, he's showing something given the playing time. If he sticks, he's certainly earned it.

So yes a lot of teams have had significant finds late in the draft.

Anything prior to round 10 isn't "late" in the draft, which is what the entire discussion was about relating to Locke. There are two (2) guys who were chosen 13th round or later (Brown/Boucher) that had similar point totals to Locke in their OHL career.

 

[OHL4Life]

Will they make a significant impact thou? In terms of OHL players.
They will make it (Ill take your word on that) because of so many openings on tbe roster.
A couple of those kids are 2 years post draft. If they were impact kids they'd a been up draft year or draft year plus one. (yes I know host year n all)
Baier has a chance at making an impact, if DiPi is moved, but he has still gotta prove it. The others Id guess are just filler until the roster is turned over in rebuild.

that's kinda my point. usually teams have better 17 year olds and cut 18 year olds. it seems like they are making it more so because they didn't have anyone else versus the guys like formenton, durzi who took spots away from other guys. Let's be honest, if the spits have a 2nd and 3rd this year or the previous year, those guys aren't here.

Openminded on Bauer but he will only make an impact if dipietro is traded. right now he may only play 15 games.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Sirman has shown consistent offence since the start of camp. While I don't expect him to be a 40-goal player this year, Legend and I both took notice that he's showing something. I'm curious to see if he can translate it to the regular season. As far as him making the other teams - London, OS, Kit are all expected to be contenders this year. On a rebuilding club, he's showing something given the playing time. If he sticks, he's certainly earned it.



Anything prior to round 10 isn't "late" in the draft, which is what the entire discussion was about relating to Locke. There are two (2) guys who were chosen 13th round or later (Brown/Boucher) that had similar point totals to Locke in their OHL career.

Keep moving those goalposts when they don't suit your argument. 8th round isn't late enough but the 11th is.... So you select a guy 150th overall and is productive player but that doesn't constitute a late find.... It's good to move the goalposts in your case because you can never lose in this circumstance. So an 8th rounder in Kopacka isn't as good of a find as Purboo because Purboo was a later pick?

 

[OHL4Life]

Sirman has shown consistent offence since the start of camp. While I don't expect him to be a 40-goal player this year, Legend and I both took notice that he's showing something. I'm curious to see if he can translate it to the regular season. As far as him making the other teams - London, OS, Kit are all expected to be contenders this year. On a rebuilding club, he's showing something given the playing time.

look at the history of the draft and rosters. 18 year olds or OHL draft year + 2 never make it on any teams. it doesn't matter if they are rebuilding or not. erie lost as many guys as we did but didn't even bring any 18 year old drafted guys to camp. it just doesn't happen, regardless or rebuild or going for it

 

[RayzorIsDull]

that's kinda my point. usually teams have better 17 year olds and cut 18 year olds. it seems like they are making it more so because they didn't have anyone else versus the guys like formenton, durzi who took spots away from other guys. Let's be honest, if the spits have a 2nd and 3rd this year or the previous year, those guys aren't here.

Openminded on Bauer but he will only make an impact if dipietro is traded. right now he may only play 15 games.

Agreed with you and Ares. The question becomes if a guy like Stevenson struggles in his rookie year as an 18 year old do you stick with him or do you want to start getting a look at Henault.

 

[OHL4Life]

Anything prior to round 10 isn't "late" in the draft, which is what the entire discussion was about relating to Locke. There are two (2) guys who were chosen 13th round or later (Brown/Boucher) that had similar point totals to Locke in their OHL career.

if your point was that Windsor found 1 guy in the last 10 years that was good in the late rounds, I'm not sure why it was brought up, 1 guy over 50/60 picks is an anomoy. there's no trend here. You presented. It likewindsor was very good at late round pics, and when we looked at other teams you kinda dropped it

If it's a statistical anomaly, why bring it up

 

[aresknights]

Keep moving those goalposts when they don't suit your argument. 8th round isn't late enough but the 11th is.... So you select a guy 150th overall and is productive player but that doesn't constitute a late find.... It's good to move the goalposts in your case because you can never lose in this circumstance. So an 8th rounder in Kopacka isn't as good of a find as Purboo because Purboo was a later pick?

Id say anything from rd 4-5/6 ( outside flyer picks that report) a longshot and rd 6/7 and on a late find.
Most kids after rd 3 have a tough time finding roster spots.

 

[OHL4Life]

Agreed with you and Ares. The question becomes if a guy like Stevenson struggles in his rookie year as an 18 year old do you stick with him or do you want to start getting a look at Henault.

im fine with them being fillers to protect guys like henault. you rarely see 6th round picks stick in the OHL, it's hard for 1st roubdpicks sometimes. let's let the kids dominate jr b before throwing them to the wolves in the OHL. the OHL is a hard league for kids, you can hurt them
If you push them Too hard. Better to develop them in jr b then put them in situations they are not ready for

I'm completely cool with all the fa's and 18 year olds signed, let's just be realistic, they're only here because we dont have anything better, not because Windsor is going to be great, they don't have anyone else.

 

[aresknights]

that's kinda my point. usually teams have better 17 year olds and cut 18 year olds. it seems like they are making it more so because they didn't have anyone else versus the guys like formenton, durzi who took spots away from other guys. Let's be honest, if the spits have a 2nd and 3rd this year or the previous year, those guys aren't here.

Openminded on Bauer but he will only make an impact if dipietro is traded. right now he may only play 15 games.

Posted before I read thru thread, sorry.
You already hit on my thoughts.

Spits have an opportunity to flip this quickly if management makes the right moves. And they get some luck.

It'll be interesting to watch.

 

[OHL4Life]

Posted before I read thru thread, sorry.
You already hit on my thoughts.

Spits have an opportunity to flip this quickly if management makes the right moves. And they get some luck.

It'll be interesting to watch.

it's all good. I think so too, which is why I'm fine with the filler guys, let's just not make them into something they are not is all. none of these guys make other teams in the league. let them lose, trade all the guys with valuefor a boatload of assets and turn the corner next year. they could be contenders in 18 months if they do it right.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

im fine with them being fillers to protect guys like henault. you rarely see 6th round picks stick in the OHL, it's hard for 1st roubdpicks sometimes. let's let the kids dominate jr b before throwing them to the wolves in the OHL. the OHL is a hard league for kids, you can hurt them
If you push them Too hard. Better to develop them in jr b then put them in situations they are not ready for

I'm completely cool with all the fa's and 18 year olds signed, let's just be realistic, they're only here because we dont have anything better, not because Windsor is going to be great, they don't have anyone else.

That's fair I guess you just need to trust the Jr B organization because there is still some awful Jr B organizations out there and sometimes it's not the best situation for the player.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

look at the history of the draft and rosters. 18 year olds or OHL draft year + 2 never make it on any teams. it doesn't matter if they are rebuilding or not. erie lost as many guys as we did but didn't even bring any 18 year old drafted guys to camp. it just doesn't happen, regardless or rebuild or going for it

In Baier's case he was drafted as a 17 year old last year in the 10th,wound up having a monster year in JrB, wasn't going to be the backup last year with it being a run year anyway, Stevenson was injured last year so he missed camp,he looked impressive in his rookie camp,he was a late born,so combined with the injury and late birthday it's like a 2nd year to me,besides since he was here in 2015, he was 168 lbs,he is now 205 lbs, physical maturity matters too.
As Sirman another late birthday guy Nov/99 appears to have found his game,is stronger then before,has surprised me,though I thought he had a real strong rookie camp.
With the absence of drafted players from last year 1,3,5 ,7,8,9, it doesn't bother me that late birthday guys make it.

 

[OHL4Life]

That's fair I guess you just need to trust the Jr B organization because there is still some awful Jr B organizations out there and sometimes it's not the best situation for the player.

Yup, that's true. We have enough local teams that you'd think they'd have a good grasp on where to place them. it's better for them to dominate lower levels. most 6th round picks don't make it, Leto e make it at 16. if we had 2nf or 3rdroubf picks this year, these guys wouldn't be in the conversation. they are kinda there by default. I like what I see but let's not rush them.

 

[OHLTG]

Keep moving those goalposts when they don't suit your argument. 8th round isn't late enough but the 11th is

In a 15-round draft, yes, 11th a "late" round compared to 8th.

if your point was that Windsor found 1 guy in the last 10 years that was good in the late rounds, I'm not sure why it was brought up, 1 guy over 50/60 picks is an anomoy. there's no trend here. You presented. It likewindsor was very good at late round pics, and when we looked at other teams you kinda dropped it

The other teams had players from the sixth round and on. That's not a "late round" pick. I said that players like Locke are rare - 13th rounder that scores 40+ goals. That's a fact - two have been selected. I also said that Windsor has a history (since the current regime took over) of finding success in the later rounds (10th and beyond). Not all players were Locke-esque (ie. 40g), but they were productive and successful (ie. Posa).

As far as the older FAs brought in - fine by me. The Spitfires have had a quality free agent each year for the last four (DiGi, Chatfield, Culina, and McEneny) seasons. We'll see if the trend continues this year.