Windsor Spitfires 2017-18 Season Thread (Part 1)

[youngblood10]

A lot of people bring up the healthy roster which is valid given the issues Windsor had during the season.
But with the 44 days off that allowed Windsor's players to get healthy and refreshed which wasn't a luxury the other teams in the Memorial Cup and the OHL playoffs had.
The beauty of the league playoffs, like the Stanley Cup, is the grind teams go through to get to the finals.
Had Seattle, Saint John and Erie been given the luxury of having 44 days off I'm sure the results would have been different. Seattle's goaltending issues played a factor in the tournament as their starter wasn't 100% healthy as I'm sure a number of players on Erie and Saint John weren't either.
That was evident in the final as Erie just didn't have much left in the tank against Windsor. That was partly a result of having to play a semi final game but also having to play three tough series in a row against London, Owen Sound and Mississauga to get there as well.
So sure Windsor finally had a healthy lineup but it wasn't like it was an even playing field in the tournament in that respect.
If Windsor had gotten to the 2nd or conference finals it could have been different and the first round loss was a blessing in disguise in the end.

The "beautiful" playoffs are a flawed system in the OHL also. 1-16 format would be fair for competitiveness but the in the OHL they want to make sure the playoff money goes around and those lowly eastern conference teams see some of it.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I think it's a bit of "how do you like it now?", which I can understand to some extent. If the Spits had lost, you'd certainly see it the other way around. Frankly, it was a fun 10-days and the team more than deserves the accolades. They beat everyone, and Erie twice, which shows this was no fluke. It reminded me of 2009 with Windsor and Kelowna. The Rockets had a chance to eliminate Windsor in round robin and failed. Windsor made them pay. This week, Erie had a chance to get into Windsor's and failed. Windsor made them pay. This was simply not the same group that we saw in the regular season. They were healthy. They were hungry. They proved a lot of people wrong. Imagine what would have happened if the team was healthy for even half the season (read: full lineup)? It was only four games but it was four games in convincing fashion against the best the CHL has to offer. I'll take that any day.

I think the 09 reference holds very little water Windsor pretty much dominated every game in the Memorial Cup round robin they didn't get many breaks until the Kelowna game. This Windsor team very rarely showed the ability to dominate the opposition. They got to play 4 games at home and took advantage of it to the nth degree. Good for them but let's not play the card of throwing it back in the faces of people especially when those people all you could hear was crickets.

Imagine if Erie didn't miss Dylan Strome half the season. Maybe the Otters could have rivaled the 04/05 London Knights.

Imagine if Tyler Parsons played more than 34 games in the regular season the Knights could have definitely had better than a 4 seed going into the playoffs therefore making for an easier road.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

The "beautiful" playoffs are a flawed system in the OHL also. 1-16 format would be fair for competitiveness but the in the OHL they want to make sure the playoff money goes around and those lowly eastern conference teams see some of it.

Better get rid of the 5 team division format then and have a more balanced schedule. I don't believe the 1-16 seed would make much of a difference for the most part.

 

[OHLTG]

It's strange. I was hoping we'd all be celebrating (yes, "all") for a few days because, you know, our team just won the Memorial Cup. Instead, nope, more debates about stuff that really shouldn't matter right now. Our team was healthy, ready to go, and just swept the Memorial Cup. In 2009 and 2010, we were partying it up. Now...this... what am I missing here?

Unless you know what people would say just cut it out.

If Windsor had lost, what would you have said? If it's not an "I told you so", then what? I'm legitimately curious.

 

[tomschman]

The purpose of the Memorial Cup is less about determining the National Champion and more about making money for the CHL. As I have stated before, the system has been flawed since the host team has been involved. The ironic part is the host team has won somewhere around 20% of the time.

The tournament would not be what it is if the host team wasn't involved. I doubt that 6,519 people would have paid those prices to see the final if the Spits had not been in the tournament. However, with the Spits in the tournament, people were buying tickets.

Other examples that it is about the money is the cleaned the ice 3 times each period so TV can sell commercial breaks. Fifteen years ago the ice didn't need cleaning. The home team wears a special jersey in game 1 that is then auction off. Almost all of the went for over $1,000 (I bought one). Over priced shirts for sale with a Mem Cup emblem (my family bought 4).

If they would go to a system that allows the best team in the regular season to host the tournament, places like Owen Sound might become host cities. I have been to a game in Owen Sound and while they would be a great host and the arena would be insane during an Attack game, the CHL wants more than 3,200 people at a game

On the other hand, in 2014 in London, once the Knights were out tickets for the Semi and Final were plentiful in the secondary market. If the tournament was held in London without the Knights, the place would be half empty. Many fans might go to 1 or 2 games but would not buy the entire package.

I view this Memorial Cup as a make-up for the 2011 Cup which the Spits would have won if they had been hosts. I am proud that the Spits won this year because they beat the best teams in the CHL. Saying the Spits are not deserving of the Cup is like saying that Nashville doesn't deserve to win the Stanley Cup because their regular season record was inferior to the Penguins regular season record. I never believed that the Spits would beat St. John, Seattle and twice beat Erie. I hoped they would and I still feel fantastic that they did. I am glad that I bought the entire tournament package and that I saw every game and that I bought all the memorabilia. This was my 5th Mem Cup, but my 1st that the Spits participated. The Mem Cup is the best Junior Hockey (outside of the World Juniors) and is fantastic.

 

[PhlyerPhanatic31]

Saying the Spits are not deserving of the Cup is like saying that Nashville doesn't deserve to win the Stanley Cup because their regular season record was inferior to the Penguins regular season record. .

Difference being the Predators worked their way to get where they are now in the playoffs. Windsor is full marks for winning the tournament, but the only thing they earned before the tournament in my opinion was the host bid.

 

[member 71782]

Well, at least the celebration and drama-free-moments lasted for almost 24-hours

The question was asked knowing that either nobody would respond which gives the high and mighty "crickets" response from those who support Rocky.

Or

For those who feel this win gives reason to support Rocky now the "they understand everything he had to deal with, good post response".

Or

Comments like yours or similar ones concerning drama and negativity and can't we all just enjoy the moment.

The question was asked, it is one that will stir things up whether people respond or not.

 

[member 71782]

HL

In regards to your responses and others.

Some have already posted some replies but I'll join in.

Every team goes through injuries, some have been pointed out. Every team deals with suspensions. Every team, most teams deal with NHL camps and players away at them.

As for Rocky's coaching style all year I would describe it as coaching the team not to lose instead of coaching to win.

I know you like to bring up numbers and I honestly don't know what the numbers are but what was the win loss numbers for OT and shootouts?

How many total games went beyond regulation that the Spits won/loss in OT as well as won/loss in a SO?

If you really want to look at numbers how many 1 goal wins did they have, excluding empty net goals outside of OT/SO wins?

My reason for asking is my issue with Rocky is what I said above, he did not push this team to win, he had them play not to lose.

A big difference between the two in how the game is played and who controls the outcome.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

I think the 09 reference holds very little water Windsor pretty much dominated every game in the Memorial Cup round robin they didn't get many breaks until the Kelowna game. This Windsor team very rarely showed the ability to dominate the opposition. They got to play 4 games at home and took advantage of it to the nth degree. Good for them but let's not play the card of throwing it back in the faces of people especially when those people all you could hear was crickets.

Imagine if Erie didn't miss Dylan Strome half the season. Maybe the Otters could have rivaled the 04/05 London Knights.

Imagine if Tyler Parsons played more than 34 games in the regular season the Knights could have definitely had better than a 4 seed going into the playoffs therefore making for an easier road.

Rayzor

One thing you never give credit for,well there is more then 1 but I digress,is that Windsor is the only team to win 3 times,with a player graduating early each year,in 09 it was Josh Bailey they still won,in 10 it was Loktinov they still won,and this year it was Fischer and they still one,both times when London won in 2005 and 2016 no players left early, ditto Oshawa in 2015.As well in 2009 they didn't use or trade their 1st pick it was Fowler ,he came in year 2, and this season with the absence of a 1st rounder because of sanctions, they won again,we talked about this before the season started and I mentioned the 1st time and you summarily dismissed it.You knocked the deals Rychel made or didn't make yet here we are.
It was a total organizational win,from management, coaches,players,no one group is solely responsible.
I also mentioned before and during the tournament don't discount Windsor and it's home ice play only lost 1 of 7 post regular season games including Mem Cup, 6 games in regulation during the regular season,far more difficult time on the road,though it should be noted that Erie lost 19 games on the road this season in regulation including playoffs and Mem cup,but only 3 times in regulation at home during the regular season and playoffs.

 

[youngblood10]

As toxic as this board is, if I had to pick between having the Spits win the Memorial Cup and reading that back lash or having them lose & reading all that back lash. I'll take winning the CHL title.

It's ridiculous. Windsor didn't create the CHL's system to determine their champion. They sure the hell don't have to apologize for winning it.

 

[member 71782]

As toxic as this board is, if I had to pick between having the Spits win the Memorial Cup and reading that back lash or having them lose & reading all that back lash. I'll take winning the CHL title.

It's ridiculous. Windsor didn't create the CHL's system to determine their champion. They sure the hell don't have to apologize for winning it.

I don't think many are discounting what they did in the tourney, it is set up the way it is, the team had to play the games and they won it all.

They deserve to be called Memorial Cup champions based on winning the tournament.

I am glad to see them win it.

The CHL/OHL is full of flaws and a lot of them need to be addressed. Everything from a more balanced schedule, would love to see everyone play each other four times eliminating conferences and divisions and go to a 1 - 8 playoff seating. Adds four games to all teams in the regular season which can be played in the two weeks freed up by eliminating the first round of the playoffs. A subject probably for another time/thread.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

HL

In regards to your responses and others.

Some have already posted some replies but I'll join in.

Every team goes through injuries, some have been pointed out. Every team deals with suspensions. Every team, most teams deal with NHL camps and players away at them.

As for Rocky's coaching style all year I would describe it as coaching the team not to lose instead of coaching to win.

I know you like to bring up numbers and I honestly don't know what the numbers are but what was the win loss numbers for OT and shootouts?

How many total games went beyond regulation that the Spits won/loss in OT as well as won/loss in a SO?

If you really want to look at numbers how many 1 goal wins did they have, excluding empty net goals outside of OT/SO wins?

My reason for asking is my issue with Rocky is what I said above, he did not push this team to win, he had them play not to lose.

A big difference between the two in how the game is played and who controls the outcome.

Cfaub

I don't see anything wrong with a coach's style or systems check Dipietro's comments in today's Star if we win in the end,If a team's scoring is not as good as another you make sure your other areas are better,and they were,, goaltending and team d were #2 in the league,special teams were #4 in PP, and for your info the best in OHl since they have kept record almost 20 years in PK #1 ,at 89 per cent,and player injury and absence to key players was the highest in the league and no doubt had an impact most of the season.
Coach Flynn said Erie and Windsor were the best teams his team saw all season, and once the Spits got to play Erie, Knoblach made a point that this was the 1st time they played a healthy,full Windsor team play all year .In the end we saw what happened Windsor outscored Erie 8-5 in the 2 games,won the special teams in both areas had better goaltending and team defense,better clutch performances,and at the great team coaching not just Thompson but all the coaches.
I have said this before OHL copies NHL,tough to score in NHL because it's coached that way,it seeps down to Jrs,coach to defend,and guess what it works,I prefer more scoring myself,but also appreciate strong defense and goaltending,we got this in this tournament,and more 18 goals for an average of 4.50, regular season it was 3.41,Erie btw outside the 12 goal game averaged 3 and that's including an empty netter, against Windsor 2.50 while Windsor averaged 4, goaltending defense and timely scoring ruled the day.

 

[member 71782]

Cfaub

I don't see anything wrong with a coach's style or systems check Dipietro's comments in today's Star if we win in the end,If a team's scoring is not as good as another you make sure your other areas are better,and they were,, goaltending and team d were #2 in the league,special teams were #4 in PP, and for your info the best in OHl since they have kept record almost 20 years in PK #1 ,at 89 per cent,and player injury and absence to key players was the highest in the league and no doubt had an impact most of the season.
Coach Flynn said Erie and Windsor were the best teams his team saw all season, and once the Spits got to play Erie, Knoblach made a point that this was the 1st time they played a healthy,full Windsor team play all year .In the end we saw what happened Windsor outscored Erie 8-5 in the 2 games,won the special teams in both areas had better goaltending and team defense,better clutch performances,and at the great team coaching not just Thompson but all the coaches.
I have said this before OHL copies NHL,tough to score in NHL because it's coached that way,it seeps down to Jrs,coach to defend,and guess what it works,I prefer more scoring myself,but also appreciate strong defense and goaltending,we got this in this tournament,and more 18 goals for an average of 4.50, regular season it was 3.41,Erie btw outside the 12 goal game averaged 3 and that's including an empty netter, against Windsor 2.50 while Windsor averaged 4, goaltending defense and timely scoring ruled the day.

Maybe this will be clearer.

No issue with good defensive systems etc but they and good offensive systems do not need to be mutually exclusive.

During the season they played not to lose, tried to hang in there and capitalize when they had a safe play.

What happened?

They finished 5th, lost in the first round and went in the tourney simply as the hosts.

During the tourney, they played to win. They forced the issue offensively, played a strong and responsible defensive game.

What happened?

They took on all 3 league champs and won the tourney.

The frustration all season from many is the team didn't play the way they were capable of and playing that style would and did cost them all season. During the tourney they played the way everyone thought they were capable of and had the results most believed they were capable.

Everyone, at least their fans were happy to see them win the cup but many were disappointed with their season. They had a successful tournament but the question for me and probably others will always be how much success could they have had during the season if they had played the same way all year.

We're both happy for their success but obviously disagree on how much success they had.

To me, the regular season in a Memorial Cup year was not a success but winning the tournament was a success.

You liked Rocky as a coach, I think he handled this season poorly but I have given him credit for changing things up in the tournament and doing things different compared to the season.

I think we are all tired of this discussion, it was a polarizing year with mixed results that in the end saw the team achieve their ultimate goal, winning a Memorial Cup while missing a few big ones along the way.

Again, congrats on winning the tourney, they earned it.

Time to move on as I'm sure most would prefer.

 

[massey]

Rayzor

One thing you never give credit for,well there is more then 1 but I digress,is that Windsor is the only team to win 3 times,with a player graduating early each year,in 09 it was Josh Bailey they still won,in 10 it was Loktinov they still won,and this year it was Fischer and they still one,both times when London won in 2005 and 2016 no players left early, ditto Oshawa in 2015.As well in 2009 they didn't use or trade their 1st pick it was Fowler ,he came in year 2, and this season with the absence of a 1st rounder because of sanctions, they won again,we talked about this before the season started and I mentioned the 1st time and you summarily dismissed it.You knocked the deals Rychel made or didn't make yet here we are.
It was a total organizational win,from management, coaches,players,no one group is solely responsible.
I also mentioned before and during the tournament don't discount Windsor and it's home ice play only lost 1 of 7 post regular season games including Mem Cup, 6 games in regulation during the regular season,far more difficult time on the road,though it should be noted that Erie lost 19 games on the road this season in regulation including playoffs and Mem cup,but only 3 times in regulation at home during the regular season and playoffs.

Congrats Legend and your Spits in winning the cup. That was the healthy team that scared me all season if they ever got healthy. Sad to read so much negativity on this board. Finishing 5th in Regular season with 5 very talented teams wasn't the end of the world considering your injuries. Getting beat out in 7 games in the playoffs by another strong team wasn't the end of the world also. That was a very impressive performance in the tournament. Your goaltending was excellent and special teams. Like your coach or not, he did an excellent job preparing this team for the tourney. Congrats and hopefully your fans can just move on.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

Congrats Legend and your Spits in winning the cup. That was the healthy team that scared me all season if they ever got healthy. Sad to read so much negativity on this board. Finishing 5th in Regular season with 5 very talented teams wasn't the end of the world considering your injuries. Getting beat out in 7 games in the playoffs by another strong team wasn't the end of the world also. That was a very impressive performance in the tournament. Your goaltending was excellent and special teams. Like your coach or not, he did an excellent job preparing this team for the tourney. Congrats and hopefully your fans can just move on.

Excellent post Massey, couldn't say things any better,thanks for the team congrats

 

[windsor7]

There should be congrats to the 3 teams for a great season.
They had to go thru a grueling 4 playoff rounds just to get to the Memorial Cup.
Hats off to Seattle, Saint John and Erie.

 

[youngblood10]

There should be congrats to the 3 teams for a great season.
They had to go thru a grueling 4 playoff rounds just to get to the Memorial Cup.
Hats off to Seattle, Saint John and Erie.

When those teams won their respective league championships they were congratulated. Windsor won the CHL championship hence the congratulations, nobody is discrediting the other participants in the tournament for their accomplishments over the course of the season.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

When those teams won their respective league championships they were congratulated. Windsor won the CHL championship hence the congratulations, nobody is discrediting the other participants in the tournament for their accomplishments over the course of the season.

Well said,very true

 

[RayzorIsDull]

HL

In regards to your responses and others.

Some have already posted some replies but I'll join in.

Every team goes through injuries, some have been pointed out. Every team deals with suspensions. Every team, most teams deal with NHL camps and players away at them.

As for Rocky's coaching style all year I would describe it as coaching the team not to lose instead of coaching to win.

I know you like to bring up numbers and I honestly don't know what the numbers are but what was the win loss numbers for OT and shootouts?

How many total games went beyond regulation that the Spits won/loss in OT as well as won/loss in a SO?

If you really want to look at numbers how many 1 goal wins did they have, excluding empty net goals outside of OT/SO wins?

My reason for asking is my issue with Rocky is what I said above, he did not push this team to win, he had them play not to lose.

A big difference between the two in how the game is played and who controls the outcome.

This is a very good post. To put it in perspective Rocky the "new age" coach is merely a younger version early new age coach Dave Cameron. Wants a defensive first mentality, attack with speed through neutral zone and create turnovers. Of course Legend many years ago said he wasn't a fan of Cameron's style. Of course now Rocky is in demand that validates how great he is. I guess the same can be said for Cameron since he's been in the NHL the past 7 years. Of course we could merely come to the conclusion Thompson's system is pretty much predicated upon having the best Spitfires goaltender in the past 20+ years. Look at the past 2 years to when DiPietro played and when Culina/Hughson/Giugovaz played. Give Thompson credit he plays to his strength. I don't think that makes him some new age coach.

Phil Jackson was a new age zen master coach in the NBA winning numerous titles it had nothing to do with having hall of famers like Jordan/Pippen/Bryant/Shaq/Rodman etc..

Boughner wasn't cited as some new age coach but he played a great up tempo style while still maintaining a sound defensive game.

Why is Thompson a new age coach but those guys weren't???

 

[OHLTG]

Regarding the difference between now and then... Windsor played their usual style against Erie in the first game on Wednesday. A lot of fans (at least where I was) were annoyed. Windsor got lucky that game. In the final, the game was too close to play that style, so they had to attack. I also firmly believe that a key difference was injuries. If you're banged up, you're not going to be able to give it your all. That's what we saw in the London series. Thompson's style isn't for everyone but it's proven IF everyone buys in.

 

[may know]

So Windsor can use the injury excuse for the regular season/playoffs but the teams in the Memorial Cup can't use the injury excuse for the Memorial Cup.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

So Windsor can use the injury excuse for the regular season/playoffs but the teams in the Memorial Cup can't use the injury excuse for the Memorial Cup.

What teams have publicly talked about injuries to key players in the Mem Cup,I did not hear anything and I was as close to action then most

 

[RayzorIsDull]

So Windsor can use the injury excuse for the regular season/playoffs but the teams in the Memorial Cup can't use the injury excuse for the Memorial Cup.

Right, it's proven to the extent that they had 44 days off and were as healthy as they had been all year. Of course Ethan Bear was playing with a broken hand for Seattle. Of course Regina has missing Adam Brooks for big games against Seattle a 130 point player. Imagine if Regina was healthy..... Imagine if Parsons played more than 34 games for the Knights this year they surely could have been a 3 seed maybe even snuck into the #1 seed. I even mentioned last night the Spits were one of the healthiest teams last year but you won't hear others try and explain why being healthy didn't work out well last year. Injuries happen next man up.

 

[youngblood10]

So Windsor can use the injury excuse for the regular season/playoffs but the teams in the Memorial Cup can't use the injury excuse for the Memorial Cup.

Windsor didn't use the injuries as an excuse. When people asked why they looked like a different team in the Memorial Cup it's directly related that it was a different team because they had all hands on deck. Minus Robertson but his roll was limited.

 

[OHLTG]

What teams have publicly talked about injuries to key players in the Mem Cup,I did not hear anything and I was as close to action then most

The biggest one I heard about was Toth and even then it was mostly how big Stankowski had been as a replacement.

I even mentioned last night the Spits were one of the healthiest teams last year but you won't hear others try and explain why being healthy didn't work out well last year. Injuries happen next man up.

Who said being healthy didn't work last year? They went from last place to battling for first. What exactly is "working out" if that isn't? Last place to OHL champs in a year?

BTW, you didn't answer my question last night about how you would have reacted if Windsor would have lost. You got on my case pretty good about not assuming, but never gave me what reality would have been. I'm going to guess it's exactly what I figured, but if I'm wrong, please tell me.