William Nylander - Big Willie Style

[mikebel111*]

Last thing we need is Tyler Biggs
Nylander over Nick "grinder" Ritchie

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Show me where I said he'd be a #1C.



You said "I fully expect Ritchie to be a tougher version of Perry."

I said Nylander and Ehlers are "starting to show a lot of signs of being more the just a 2nd line scorer."

I'm not sure if you're looking at the right guy when you suggest one of us might think we're Jo-Jo the psychic.

Nylander's scoring at a rate in the SHL that's nearly unheard of for his age. Ehlers is scoring at a rate that VERY few have done lately. Those two points are facts. Not opinion, and to my point, if you refuse to see those 2 glaring FACTS, well ......... maybe we're both wasting our time in this discussion.

You said..... "Right now I think I'd have to admit that Ehlers and Nylander are starting to show a lot of signs of being more then just a 2nd liner scorer.

That's a subtle way of saying that Willy has top line capabilities... (#1 center)...You said what you said;don't try to spin it..

 

[TheCLAM]

I'd like to see both Nylander and Ritchie play a couple of seasons in the NHL before I come to a conclusion. Both are intriguing prospects at this point and time I believe can have big impacts in the NHL. The issue is more in the stereotypes of their play and preference of each individual.

Does Nylander become a dynamic player like Patrick Kane or fizz out like a Frederik Sjostrom?

Does Ritchie become a dominant scorer like Corey Perry or a physically matched player like Kyle Beach?

Only time can address these projections. Both have a unique skillet and I don't see the need to say x prospect is better than y. You have to show respect for both prospects instead of envy subjective desire

 

[zeke]

Bozak has alot of points this year. What are Nylanders 5v5 possession stats?

is bozak the highest ppg player on his team and in his league, and the youngest player in the league to boot?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I can give you a link if you want. And all I'm saying is that you guys give your prospects lofty expectations and they normally don't meet them.

Go for it. I could find plenty of ridiculous quotes from other fan bases. One person doesn't reflect an entire fan base.

And so says the kettle to the pot. As if Hodgson lived up to the lofty expectations in Vancouver.

 

[The Magic Man]

Based on what lol? Are people actually bashing Nylander in this thread?

My guess. Is that OK with you?

You said..... "Right now I think I'd have to admit that Ehlers and Nylander are are starting to show a lot of signs of being more then just a 2nd liner scorer.

You're right, I did say that line exactly. Good quoting.

That's a subtle way of saying that Willy has top line capabilities... (#1 center)...You said what you said;don't try to spin it..

I suppose. I wouldn't say subtle though, as I wasn't trying to hide anything. I said they're 'starting to show signs of'. If you want I can request bigger font from the Administrators.

Again, you said "I fully expect Ritchie to be a tougher version of Perry."

And then implied I'm being presumptuous in saying they're starting to signs of being more then 2nd liners.

 

[zeke]

As far as my prediction that Ritchie will score more goals than Nylander in the NHL,yes it is only a guess...I wrote that to counter the notion (from a poster) that Nick is only a "grinder" in comparison to Willy...Nothing could be further than the truth...The fact is Ritche scored 39 goals last season in the OHL and Nylander has yet to score 39 goals at any level---Willy's stats only go as far back as 2008 when he played for team Maryland. Until they play the same amount of games in the same league it is difficult to make direct comparisons.

So I think its a decent bet that Nick Ritchie will continue to score more goals than Nylander going forward.

see, while your statement is just a "guess", mine is based on actual data.

for example, you compared Ritchie to Perry, when Ritchie has a 1.28ppg this year compare to Perry's breakthrough 1.71ppg post-draft year. projecting ritchie to be anwyhere comparable to perry is baseless.

ritchie's 1.28ppg in his post draft year, based on the history of similar scorers in his league at his age, indicates some second line upside (though nothing guaranteed even there), but nothing he has done so far has indicated any first line potential in the nhl.

on the other hand, willy's ppg in the shl, based on the history of similar scorers in his league at his age, not only indicates first line potetnial but stud first line potential at that.

 

[zeke]

.

Does Nylander become a dynamic player like Patrick Kane or fizz out like a Frederik Sjostrom?

Does Ritchie become a dominant scorer like Corey Perry or a physically matched player like Kyle Beach?

Only time can address these projections. Both have a unique skillet and I don't see the need to say x prospect is better than y. You have to show respect for both prospects instead of envy subjective desire

your comparisons are poor.

Sjostrom is much more similar to Ritchie than nylander. a 220lbs winger who scored just over 1.2ppg in the chl at age 19, just like ritchie.

and ritchie is producing nowhere near Perry's level at the same age, and is barely producing more than Beach did. ritchie is much, much, much more likely to turn into a sjostrom or beach than he is a perry.

and there is nothing subjective about it.

 

[Black Noise]

is bozak the highest ppg player on his team and in his league, and the youngest player in the league to boot?

He isn't the highest PPG player in the league. That belongs to Jeffery Taffe.

http://stats.swehockey.se/Players/Statistics/ScoringLeaders/5056#

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

see, while your statement is just a "guess", mine is based on actual data.

for example, you compared Ritchie to Perry, when Ritchie has a 1.28ppg this year compare to Perry's breakthrough 1.71ppg post-draft year. projecting ritchie to be anwyhere comparable to perry is baseless.

ritchie's 1.28ppg in his post draft year, based on the history of similar scorers in his league at his age, indicates some second line upside (though nothing guaranteed even there), but nothing he has done so far has indicated any first line potential in the nhl.

on the other hand, willy's ppg in the shl, based on the history of similar scorers in his league at his age, not only indicates first line potetnial but stud first line potential at that.

learn to read.

This discussion is about goal scoring not points per game.

If I compared Perry to Ritchie it is because they both were goal scorers at the junior level and both are big guys...geesh

This is why I don't engage very often in here...Some of you just can't read and follow a discussion point for point..You drift off and build these strawmen.

 

[zeke]

First Round Pick CHL Power Forward Scoring at age 19 (age as of feb.1 as per hockey-reference.com), drafted from 2003-2010:

W.Wolski: 56gms, 47gls, 128pts (82gms, 69gls, 187pts)
C.Perry: 60gms, 47gls, 130pts (82gms, 64gls, 178pts)
M.Pouliot: 70gms, 45gls, 114pts (82gms, 53gls, 134pts)
B.Ryan: 63gms, 43gls, 102pts (82gms, 56gls, 133pts)
E.Fehr: 71gms, 59gls, 111pts (82gms, 68gls, 128pts)
M.Zagrapan: 59gms, 35gls, 87pts (82gms, 49gls, 121pts)
G.Nemisz: 51gms, 34gls, 70pts (82gms, 55gls, 113pts)
J.Carter: 55gms, 34gls, 74pts (82gms, 51gls, 110pts)
C.Stewart: 61gms, 36gls, 82pts (82gms, 48gls, 110pts)
P.Holland: 59gms, 30gls, 79pts (82gms, 42gls, 110pts)
N.Foligno: 66gms, 31gls, 88pts (82gms, 39gls, 109pts)
A.Picard: 65gms, 40gls, 85pts (82gms, 51gls, 107pts)
B.Pouliot: 51gms, 35gls, 65pts (82gms, 56gls, 105pts)
N.Ritchie: 25gms, 14gls, 32pts (82gms, 46gls, 105pts)
J.Caron: 43gms, 26gls, 53pts (82gms, 50gls, 101pts)
F.Sjostrom: 63gms, 34gls, 77pts (82gms, 44gls, 99pts)
K.Beach: 54gms, 24gls, 63pts (82gms, 36gls, 96pts)
C.Ashton: 62gms, 33gls, 71pts (82gms, 44gls, 94pts)
R.O'Marra: 46gms, 26gls, 51pts (82gms, 46gls, 91pts)
A.Stewart: 53gms, 35gls, 58pts (82gms, 54gls, 90pts)
R.Getzlaf: 51gms, 29gls, 54pts (82gms, 47gls, 87pts)
S.Bernier: 68gms, 35gls, 71pts (82gms, 42gls, 86pts)
A.Watson: 68gms, 34gls, 68pts (82gms, 41gls, 82pts)
K.Chipchura: 59gms, 21gls, 55pts (82gms, 29gls, 76pts)
P.Paradis: 63gms, 24gls, 44pts (82gms, 31gls, 57pts)
A.Ladd: 65gms, 19gls, 45pts (82gms, 24gls, 57pts)
M.Pelech: 58gms, 5gls, 35pts (82gms, 7gls, 50pts)

that's literally anyone close to a first round power forward i could find that played his 19yr old year in the chl.

first of all, notice that chl scoring MATTERS. all the guys below ritchie stunk....except two guys - getzlaf and ladd. but don't be fooled by getzlaf - he was injured that year, and at 18 had had a 125pt pace. so really ladd is the ONLY exception of a guy with lower than ritchie's production that turned into a top six nhl forward.

second, notice that the guys just above ritchie were busts, third liners, or borderline second liners.

third, notice that a comparison to a guy like perry is ridiculous.

based on what he's done so far, ritchie has his work cut out for him just to become a second liner in the nhl.

 

[zeke]

learn to read.

This discussion is about goal scoring not points per game.

If I compared Perry to Ritchie it is because they both were goal scorers at the junior level and both are big guys...geesh

This is why I don't engage very often in here...Some of you just can't read and follow a discussion point for point..You drift off and build these strawmen.

this discussion is about projecting prospects.

you choose to look at goalscoring alone, but you have no evidence that that is a n effective piece of evidence. (hint: its not)

 

[zeke]

He isn't the highest PPG player in the league. That belongs to Jeffery Taffe.

http://stats.swehockey.se/Players/Statistics/ScoringLeaders/5056#

oops, he's slipped all the way down to....second.

 

[Pi]

oops, he's slipped all the way down to....second.

Plus, he's only about twice as old as Nylander.

 

[SChan*]

as hyped as Eichel been, he did not register a single point in 10 goals forward (!)

 

[The Beyonder]

Wait... Let me gets this straight, we drafted a Phil Kessel light according to some people, and according to the same people this is a problem? How the hell is this a problem? Drafting a guy who can be a PPG player with 8th pick, no matter the style, is a frigging steal; unless it was a ridiculously deep draft, which that 2014 doesn't look like it was.

 

[hockeystick89]

First Round Pick CHL Power Forward Scoring at age 19 (age as of feb.1 as per hockey-reference.com), drafted from 2003-2010:

W.Wolski: 56gms, 47gls, 128pts (82gms, 69gls, 187pts)
C.Perry: 60gms, 47gls, 130pts (82gms, 64gls, 178pts)
M.Pouliot: 70gms, 45gls, 114pts (82gms, 53gls, 134pts)
B.Ryan: 63gms, 43gls, 102pts (82gms, 56gls, 133pts)
E.Fehr: 71gms, 59gls, 111pts (82gms, 68gls, 128pts)
M.Zagrapan: 59gms, 35gls, 87pts (82gms, 49gls, 121pts)
G.Nemisz: 51gms, 34gls, 70pts (82gms, 55gls, 113pts)
J.Carter: 55gms, 34gls, 74pts (82gms, 51gls, 110pts)
C.Stewart: 61gms, 36gls, 82pts (82gms, 48gls, 110pts)
P.Holland: 59gms, 30gls, 79pts (82gms, 42gls, 110pts)
N.Foligno: 66gms, 31gls, 88pts (82gms, 39gls, 109pts)
A.Picard: 65gms, 40gls, 85pts (82gms, 51gls, 107pts)
B.Pouliot: 51gms, 35gls, 65pts (82gms, 56gls, 105pts)
N.Ritchie: 25gms, 14gls, 32pts (82gms, 46gls, 105pts)
J.Caron: 43gms, 26gls, 53pts (82gms, 50gls, 101pts)
F.Sjostrom: 63gms, 34gls, 77pts (82gms, 44gls, 99pts)
K.Beach: 54gms, 24gls, 63pts (82gms, 36gls, 96pts)
C.Ashton: 62gms, 33gls, 71pts (82gms, 44gls, 94pts)
R.O'Marra: 46gms, 26gls, 51pts (82gms, 46gls, 91pts)
A.Stewart: 53gms, 35gls, 58pts (82gms, 54gls, 90pts)
R.Getzlaf: 51gms, 29gls, 54pts (82gms, 47gls, 87pts)
S.Bernier: 68gms, 35gls, 71pts (82gms, 42gls, 86pts)
A.Watson: 68gms, 34gls, 68pts (82gms, 41gls, 82pts)
K.Chipchura: 59gms, 21gls, 55pts (82gms, 29gls, 76pts)
P.Paradis: 63gms, 24gls, 44pts (82gms, 31gls, 57pts)
A.Ladd: 65gms, 19gls, 45pts (82gms, 24gls, 57pts)
M.Pelech: 58gms, 5gls, 35pts (82gms, 7gls, 50pts)

that's literally anyone close to a first round power forward i could find that played his 19yr old year in the chl.

first of all, notice that chl scoring MATTERS. all the guys below ritchie stunk....except two guys - getzlaf and ladd. but don't be fooled by getzlaf - he was injured that year, and at 18 had had a 125pt pace. so really ladd is the ONLY exception of a guy with lower than ritchie's production that turned into a top six nhl forward.

second, notice that the guys just above ritchie were busts, third liners, or borderline second liners.

third, notice that a comparison to a guy like perry is ridiculous.

based on what he's done so far, ritchie has his work cut out for him just to become a second liner in the nhl.

Did you just pick any player over certain height for that list? If Nick Foligno is a power forward then so am I.

Even if you ignore the fact half those guys were not anticipated to be impact players in the NHL and use your sacred points per game stat to measure player worth, some of those players were members of some incredible junior teams. Good thing that stats > all.

 

[SChan*]

swedish coach refuses to let nylander play center. Grönborg is the worst coach sweden ever had in 100 years of coaching

nylander is upset. Oh boy, sweden will bomb out of this tournament early.

http://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey/krisdraget-flyttar-pa-nylander-i-premiaren/

 

[Menzinger]

Not really considering 2 of those guys likely end up wingers(Holland and Nylander). The leafs still lack great center prospects, as per usual.

That seems a rather bold prediction regarding Nylander: he spends most of the time these days playing centre - it clearly is his preferred position over the wing.

 

[VictorLustig]

swedish coach refuses to let nylander play center. Grönborg is the worst coach sweden ever had in 100 years of coaching

nylander is upset. Oh boy, sweden will bomb out of this tournament early.

http://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey/krisdraget-flyttar-pa-nylander-i-premiaren/

Ridiculous decision to move Nylander when he has been the least of our problems. It's pretty clear Grönborg doesn't like him, didn't even invite him to camp last year.

 

[Bluelines]

That seems a rather bold prediction regarding Nylander: he spends most of the time these days playing centre - it clearly is his preferred position over the wing.

Not sure I want a guy as small Nylander lining up against guys like Malkin, Getzlaf, Thornton, Staal, Toews, Johansen, Kopitar, ect. ... face offs, defensive match ups against these big men would be a nightmare.

 

[Menzinger]

Not sure I want a guy as small Nylander lining up against guys like Malkin, Getzlaf, Thornton, Staal, Toews, Johansen, Kopitar, ect. ... face offs, defensive match ups against these big men would be a nightmare.

He's also still a teenager and likely hasn't finished his physical development.

Plus, I think in general, size is overrated- Giroux often doesn't have much trouble holding his own against the players you mentioned, and he is below six feet in height.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Ridiculous decision to move Nylander when he has been the least of our problems. It's pretty clear Grönborg doesn't like him, didn't even invite him to camp last year.

Yeah, he definitely has something against him. Dont know what but there have always been a lot of politics regarding Tre Kronor so why not the Junior Kronorna as well? Have a turned down a sponsor event or something?


And I think we would do better if WN is allowed to play center so ha can carry the puck and distribute it instead of just being used as threat one on ones. And breaking up the Modo line seem weird. They work well together so why not keep them together?

 

[LeafsRReady]

I'm not sure why anyone is comparing Ritchie with Perry. In junior Corey Perry was anything but a PF. He had incredible puck handling skills and was a elite passer but he was like a stick out there. He was 6'3" but he had very little meat on his bones and while he was fiesty he wouldn't scare anyone. Obviously he has gotten bigger and added a physical dimension to his game since getting to the NHL.
As for Nylander, whlle some of the elements of his game are like Phil's (skating, passing and shooting) he seems to have a much greater committment to fitness than Phil has ever shown. Many have asked how good Kessel could be if he had a training regime like Stamkos. If we're lucky maybe Nylander will turn out to be that guy that meshes Phil's skills with Stamkos' fitness level.

 

[StuckOutHere]

I'm not sure why anyone is comparing Ritchie with Perry. In junior Corey Perry was anything but a PF. He had incredible puck handling skills and was a elite passer but he was like a stick out there. He was 6'3" but he had very little meat on his bones and while he was fiesty he wouldn't scare anyone. Obviously he has gotten bigger and added a physical dimension to his game since getting to the NHL.
As for Nylander, whlle some of the elements of his game are like Phil's (skating, passing and shooting) he seems to have a much greater committment to fitness than Phil has ever shown. Many have asked how good Kessel could be if he had a training regime like Stamkos. If we're lucky maybe Nylander will turn out to be that guy that meshes Phil's skills with Stamkos' fitness level.

Also. Let's be real. Perry, while a great prospect, played for one of the best junior teams of all time. That skews his stats somewhat.