Will Matthews score more than Ovechkin by the end of his career?

[CatOTails]

Sure he could/would have played. But that is not what I am saying, is it?

He had never once laced up for an NHL team and he had no contract. Thus HE was never locked out.

No need to resort to insults because you don't see things the way I do.

Dude, chill. We got what you're saying, it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Demandedace]

If we are giving OV credit for games he didn't play.....how would that translate to additional wear and tear?

He still played hockey in those seasons… just not in the NHL due to lockout. Bad argument.

 

[snag]

He still played hockey in those seasons… just not in the NHL due to lockout. Bad argument.

Yep...2004 WJC he was injured against Canada and lost about 2 months with Dynamo Moscow.

 

[leafsfan5]

No way Matthews will ever touch Ovechkin’s 2007-08. 65 goals, physical beast, one of the fastest players in the league, never gave up on a play, so much heart.

Matthews is too one-dimensional and lazy. Ovechkin you could not get off the puck. Matthews, all you have to do is mention Rogaine and the guy is off the puck.

Matthews this year is dominating the competition at a level comparable to Ovechkin in 07-08 for goal scoring.

Matthews vs #2 in goals: 25% more goals
Matthews vs #5 in goals: 48% more goals
Matthews vs #10 in goals: 63% more goals

Ovechkin vs #2 in goals: 25% more goals
Ovechkin vs #5 in goals: 51% more goals
Ovechkin vs #10 in goals: 63% more goals

It's honestly pretty crazy how close they are in terms of dominating the competition.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

This is the dumbest thread. It reminds me of when Leafs fans insisted on comparing Matthews to McDavid. And how stupid that looks now.

"Pace".

 

[Maplebeasts]

No way Matthews will ever touch Ovechkin’s 2007-08. 65 goals, physical beast, one of the fastest players in the league, never gave up on a play, so much heart.

Matthews is too one-dimensional and lazy. Ovechkin you could not get off the puck. Matthews, all you have to do is mention Rogaine and the guy is off the puck.

Lazy and one dimensional? Your credibility on anything Leafs related was already so low it was a tripping hazard in hell. This somehow lowers it.

This is the dumbest thread. It reminds me of when Leafs fans insisted on comparing Matthews to McDavid. And how stupid that looks now.

"Pace".

The thread was started by a Yotes fan.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

No way Matthews will ever touch Ovechkin’s 2007-08. 65 goals, physical beast, one of the fastest players in the league, never gave up on a play, so much heart.

Matthews is too one-dimensional and lazy. Ovechkin you could not get off the puck. Matthews, all you have to do is mention Rogaine and the guy is off the puck.

I was actually going to like your post (because it will be almost impossible to match Ovechkin's longevity and consistency. And then I saw the bolded. Um, tell me you never watch Matthews play without telling me you never watch Matthews play. He scores in a hundred different ways and works his ass off offensively and defensively.

 

[BallardEra]

From 2014:

Will Ovechkin catch Gretzky in career goals?

Will Ovechkin catch Gretzky in career goals?

forums.hfboards.com

 

[authentic]

Matthews this year is dominating the competition at a level comparable to Ovechkin in 07-08 for goal scoring.

Matthews vs #2 in goals: 25% more goals
Matthews vs #5 in goals: 48% more goals
Matthews vs #10 in goals: 63% more goals

Ovechkin vs #2 in goals: 25% more goals
Ovechkin vs #5 in goals: 51% more goals
Ovechkin vs #10 in goals: 63% more goals

It's honestly pretty crazy how close they are in terms of dominating the competition.

After 53 games Ovechkin had 43 goals and Kovalchuk had 38 in the same amount of games. Matthews has 49 goals in 53 games and Reinhart has 39 in 55 games.

Actually this is quite interesting. It took Ovechkin 66 games to score 49 goals in his peak season, and this is how he compared to the rest of the top scorers…

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Matthews is further ahead of the league with 49 goals in 53 games and most below him having played a few more games instead of a few less in Ovechkin’s case.

Matthews also has 35 goals in his last 32 games…

Here’s their powerplay time compared to the rest of the league

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

You have to scroll down to 65th for Matthews so far, averaging 3:14 per game.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Here’s Ovechkin as he always is sitting right at the top in powerplay time, averaging 5:37 per game.

Not only that but Matthews averages :51 on the penalty kill and Ovechkin never killed penalties with any regularity, and Matthews plays an amazing two-way game instead of run and gun like a Ovechkin did. The only thing really that arguably counteracts this are linemates. Nylander and Marner > rookie Backstrom. That certainly adds to the impressiveness of his 65 goal season.

Perhaps it’s just me but I think all things considered Matthews is a better peak goal scorer even if it’s only by a slight margin.

 

[Demandedace]

After 53 games Ovechkin had 43 goals and Kovalchuk had 38 in the same amount of games. Matthews has 49 goals in 53 games and Reinhart has 39 in 55 games.

Actually this is quite interesting. It took Ovechkin 66 games to score 49 goals in his peak season, and this is how he compared to the rest of the top scorers…

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Matthews is further ahead of the league with 49 goals in 53 games and most below him having played a few more games instead of a few less in Ovechkin’s case.

Matthews also has 35 goals in his last 32 games…

Here’s their powerplay time compared to the rest of the league

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

You have to scroll down to 65th for Matthews so far, averaging 3:14 per game.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Here’s Ovechkin as he always is sitting right at the top in powerplay time, averaging 5:37 per game.

Not only that but Matthews averages :51 on the penalty kill and Ovechkin never killed penalties with any regularity, and Matthews plays an amazing two-way game instead of run and gun like a Ovechkin did. The only thing really that arguably counteracts this are linemates. Nylander and Marner > rookie Backstrom. That certainly adds to the impressiveness of his 65 goal season.

Perhaps it’s just me but I think all things considered Matthews is a better peak goal scorer even if it’s only by a slight margin.

Ovi’s season he scored 65 goals he had 112 points. Next on the team was Backstrom with 69 (nice) points for a difference of 43.

Matthews right now has 49 goals and 73 points while Nylander has 72 points.

 

[PlushMinus]

lol Matthews is a better peak goal scorer.

Ok, well here's a simple fact: Gretzky is still the greatest goal scorer of all time. Ovechkin is the 2nd greatest.

Matthews is currently the 162nd greatest....

 

[CokenoPepsi]

The thing is if Matthews misses any length of time it kills his chances.

As he gets older it gets more likely he'll suffer an injury where he misses a couple months here or there...and who knows about any pesky lockouts.

If he scores 50 goals a season from now for the next ten years that still puts him 50 back of Ovechkin (assuming he breaks the record and retires soon after).

A tall ask

 

[authentic]

Ovi’s season he scored 65 goals he had 112 points. Next on the team was Backstrom with 69 (nice) points for a difference of 43.

Matthews right now has 49 goals and 73 points while Nylander has 72 points.

The season Ovechkin scored 109 points (72 games) Backstrom had 101, Semin had 84 in 73 games and Mike Green a defenseman had 76 in 75. Like I said that is an argument in Ovechkin’s favour anyway, but considering goal scoring only I just believe scoring 49 goals in 53 games instead of 66 including the two-way game and powerplay factor cancels it out considerably.

 

[HTFN]

After 53 games Ovechkin had 43 goals and Kovalchuk had 38 in the same amount of games. Matthews has 49 goals in 53 games and Reinhart has 39 in 55 games.

Actually this is quite interesting. It took Ovechkin 66 games to score 49 goals in his peak season, and this is how he compared to the rest of the top scorers…

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Matthews is further ahead of the league with 49 goals in 53 games and most below him having played a few more games instead of a few less in Ovechkin’s case.

Matthews also has 35 goals in his last 32 games…

Here’s their powerplay time compared to the rest of the league

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

You have to scroll down to 65th for Matthews so far, averaging 3:14 per game.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Here’s Ovechkin as he always is sitting right at the top in powerplay time, averaging 5:37 per game.

Not only that but Matthews averages :51 on the penalty kill and Ovechkin never killed penalties with any regularity, and Matthews plays an amazing two-way game instead of run and gun like a Ovechkin did. The only thing really that arguably counteracts this are linemates. Nylander and Marner > rookie Backstrom. That certainly adds to the impressiveness of his 65 goal season.

Perhaps it’s just me but I think all things considered Matthews is a better peak goal scorer even if it’s only by a slight margin.

1.) All of this stat parsing is exactly what we both watched Laine fanatics do, trying to identify these compartmentalized scenarios to assert superiority instead of just waiting for the cards to all hit the table. Maybe a little less of it?

2.) This "interesting" stat that it took Ovechkin 66 games to score 49, thus Matthews is more impressive with 49 in 53... which means Ovechkin took off for 16 in 16. We're talking about a guy who was, what... 3 goals off this fake 50 in 50 back in 2014 so it's not like anything about Matthews' heater (which we're not even adjusting right now, just counting) is a definite leg up.

3.) Deployment isn't the fault of the player and production isn't linear. I know for a fact this has been explained to you enough times to sink in. Stop using this argument.

4th and perhaps most important: we comparing Sam Reinhart to Ilya Kovalchuk right now? I get that comparison against the field can be valuable, but when we're comparing 1st to 2nd it's also probably a pretty good idea to get a grip on how good 2nd is relative to their peers, and Kovalchuk was still a good step above in a way that Reinhart isn't outside of this career heater.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Hilarious thread, not a chance

 

[TheAngryHank]

Lazy and one dimensional? Your credibility on anything Leafs related was already so low it was a tripping hazard in hell. This somehow lowers it.


The thread was started by a Yotes fan.

Momma Matthews burner confirmed.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Are you touched, or just choosing to be willfully ignorant? The owners locked out the players, so they weren't signing any rookies to contracts without a CBA. He couldn't sign a contract. His rookie year was gone, by the owner's choice. He clearly would've played, and probably scored 40 to 50. Maybe Matthews catches Ovie, maybe not, but don't make intentionally stupid arguments to "strengthen" your side. It's just embarrassing and weak intellectually.

I don't see the connection with my point.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

if they went back in time its questionable if many would be as good as they are today

Mcdavid would you can't stop what you can't catch.

Matthews too because of the accuracy of his shot.

The best players today would be the best in any era because you can't take away Mcdavid speed or Matthews accuracy

 

[The Podium]

No way Matthews plays until Ovechkin's age, he will retire early and bask in mountains of cash after the Leafs' gazillionth time getting knocked out of the playoffs.

And then probably start his own fashion brand (if he doesn't have one already).

I don’t understand the posts, are the based on anything in reality?

AM is known for being the first and last one at practice, lauded by his teammates for his commitment to fitness and to the game and yet everyone believes he doesn’t love the game?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

1.) All of this stat parsing is exactly what we both watched Laine fanatics do, trying to identify these compartmentalized scenarios to assert superiority instead of just waiting for the cards to all hit the table. Maybe a little less of it?

2.) This "interesting" stat that it took Ovechkin 66 games to score 49, thus Matthews is more impressive with 49 in 53... which means Ovechkin took off for 16 in 16. We're talking about a guy who was, what... 3 goals off this fake 50 in 50 back in 2014 so it's not like anything about Matthews' heater (which we're not even adjusting right now, just counting) is a definite leg up.

3.) Deployment isn't the fault of the player and production isn't linear. I know for a fact this has been explained to you enough times to sink in. Stop using this argument.

4th and perhaps most important: we comparing Sam Reinhart to Ilya Kovalchuk right now? I get that comparison against the field can be valuable, but when we're comparing 1st to 2nd it's also probably a pretty good idea to get a grip on how good 2nd is relative to their peers, and Kovalchuk was still a good step above in a way that Reinhart isn't outside of this career heater.

I can't believe people are still spouting "but production isn't linear" as if that's generally the argument. It's almost like people who spout this are completely oblivious to the point most of the time..

FYI you also don't have to compare him to Reinhart. You can look at how he sits versus peers since he started. The question is whether you look versus GP (where we know he was afforded significantly less time and PP opportunity) or do you look at it comparing actual time played (which gives you the closest apples to apples comparison you can get). If you do, you are going to be pretty shocked at the gap between Matthews and #2 (which isn't Reinhart). In fact, if you are impressed by the per GP gap between McDavid and the field for points since he started, brace yourself.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Are you touched, or just choosing to be willfully ignorant? but don't make intentionally stupid arguments to "strengthen" your side. It's just embarrassing and weak intellectually.

It’s hilarious to read someone type that argument.

 

[Jyrki]

yeah well Matthews may score 50 in 54 games, but did he ever score #50in07? I don't think so!

 

[Guinnes66]

People pretending Ovy didn't play through the second dead puck era and dominate his peers in goal scoring are obnoxious. Not in pace either, in reality. Even putting Matthews career up against his peers since he entered the league, he's 30 odd goals ahead of Draisatl, Pastrnak, McDavid and Ovy himself while admittedly playing about 50 less games than all of them except Ovi. Ovi was 60 goals ahead of Kovalchuk for his first 8 years and 90 ahead of Heatley and Iggy. No one else was within a hundred of him. When you realize Ovy scored 50 or close to it 7 more times after that, in a lower scoring era, it is more impressive. Matthews being slightly ahead in GPG in the highest scoring era since the 80's is impressive but less than Ovy. Especially when you realize he went scoreless several times when he was close to milestone numbers in previous years. There's no reason to assume he would have simply scored goals in the games he's missed. Ovy also got screwed out of his D+1.

I don't know how one, in good faith, could argue "doing it" is more impressive and discount the lockout from Ovy's legacy and then say Matthews goals per game counts more. I think Matthews needs several seasons better than Ovechkin's best to enter the conversation. I don't mean pace either. Ovy still has the best goal scoring individual season post-lockout. Matthews should top it this year, but who knows. I don't think Matthews ever comes close to Ovy, but I think he has more of a lesser Mike Bossy or high end Bure reputation where he doesn't even play into his mid-late 30's. Pace is the only way anyone is going to touch Ovy. Ovy's on pace to catch Gretzky in the same number of games played at the moment. Which is insane considering he's only about 100 games away. It's not some far reach like "if he scores 50 for 12 more seasons".

I would say arguing in good faith would at least include an acknowledgment of the massive disparity in powerplay times between matthews and ovechkin. So when you bring up factors like lower scoring era and lockouts affecting ovechkin but not even bring up powerplay times, i dont consider that an argument in good faith. Matthews goal totals are already more than ovechkin thus far in their careers, i wonder how many more goals matthews would have had by now if his powerplay time had been double what it was? Hmmm.

 

[LivingRentFree]

No way Matthews will ever touch Ovechkin’s 2007-08. 65 goals, physical beast, one of the fastest players in the league, never gave up on a play, so much heart.

Matthews is too one-dimensional and lazy. Ovechkin you could not get off the puck. Matthews, all you have to do is mention Rogaine and the guy is off the puck.

Truly hope you’re being sarcastic here, because Matthews and One dimensional don’t belong in the same sentence.

 

[IPS]

After 53 games Ovechkin had 43 goals and Kovalchuk had 38 in the same amount of games. Matthews has 49 goals in 53 games and Reinhart has 39 in 55 games.

Actually this is quite interesting. It took Ovechkin 66 games to score 49 goals in his peak season, and this is how he compared to the rest of the top scorers…

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Matthews is further ahead of the league with 49 goals in 53 games and most below him having played a few more games instead of a few less in Ovechkin’s case.

Matthews also has 35 goals in his last 32 games…

Here’s their powerplay time compared to the rest of the league

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

You have to scroll down to 65th for Matthews so far, averaging 3:14 per game.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Here’s Ovechkin as he always is sitting right at the top in powerplay time, averaging 5:37 per game.

Not only that but Matthews averages :51 on the penalty kill and Ovechkin never killed penalties with any regularity, and Matthews plays an amazing two-way game instead of run and gun like a Ovechkin did. The only thing really that arguably counteracts this are linemates. Nylander and Marner > rookie Backstrom. That certainly adds to the impressiveness of his 65 goal season.

Perhaps it’s just me but I think all things considered Matthews is a better peak goal scorer even if it’s only by a slight margin.

Lol just let them live in their cognitive dissonance.

What Matthews has done so far in his career is very obviously better than prime Ovechkin but the hater choose to be mental toddlers about it and think by pretending it doesn't exist they can avoid addressing it.