Will Auston Matthews be a hart finalist this season? Yes or No

[Regal]

I think it’s doubtful. The voters love storylines or notable feats unless someone is so good like Gretzky where you can’t ignore it. Last year, Matthews was great, but there were a lot of players who had great years and I think it was the 50 in 50 and 60 goal numbers that really pushed him over the edge, despite the slow start and the missed games. At this point, it would take a similar run to have a year like last year, and the Leafs don’t look poised to have a ridiculous record. So even if he manages the same run, I’m not sure if doing the same thing on a team with a similar or worse record would get the same support the following year unless the competition ends up worse, simply because it doesn’t stand out the same way when it’s repeated, not because he’s any less valuable. With McDavid having another big year, now Robertson having one too and a number of other players looking like they could finish with big seasons, I think the competition will be strong enough that he’d have to best last year. And with his start that seems unlikely.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Gaudreau had a better season than Matthews did and wasn't a finalist(90 even strength points!)

Gaudreau got robbed



eh that already happened when Hall won it

If Matthews played 82 games like Gaudreau, good chance he would have outproduced him…he was on pace for more points

And when points are close, you always lean toward goals and Matthews had 20 more.

On top of playing the more valuable position and playing better all-around hockey.

Really bad argument imo

 

[Haatley]

If Matthews played 82 games like Gaudreau, good chance he would have outproduced him…he was on pace for more points

And when points are close, you always lean toward goals and Matthews had 20 more.

On top of playing the more valuable position and playing better all-around hockey.

Really bad argument imo

Who says you "always lean towards goals?"

There's an award for just goal scoring.

Points between he and Gaudreau were not close. Gaudreau had a far better season.

"But the players voted!"

The players don't watch games as much as you think. They spend a lot of time listening to biased media.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If Matthews played 82 games like Gaudreau, good chance he would have outproduced him…he was on pace for more points

And when points are close, you always lean toward goals and Matthews had 20 more.

On top of playing the more valuable position and playing better all-around hockey.

Really bad argument imo

Not disagreeing with the other stuff, but when has the bolded been true?

Crosby won the Rocket in 2009-10 and only finished 3 points back of H. Sedin while finishing with 22 more goals, yet didn't win the Hart.

 

[The Podium]

Who says you "always lean towards goals?"

There's an award for just goal scoring.

Points between he and Gaudreau were not close. Gaudreau had a far better season.

"But the players voted!"

The players don't watch games as much as you think. They spend a lot of time listening to biased media.

Cry me a river bud, Matthews clearly deserved his Hart last season. Enough of this silliness.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Who says you "always lean towards goals?"

There's an award for just goal scoring.

Points between he and Gaudreau were not close. Gaudreau had a far better season.

"But the players voted!"

The players don't watch games as much as you think. They spend a lot of time listening to biased media.

Lol, so the fans know more than the players who actually see these guys up close on the ice?

Not disagreeing with the other stuff, but when has the bolded been true?

Crosby won the Rocket in 2009-10 and only finished 3 points back of H. Sedin while finishing with 22 more goals, yet didn't win the Hart.

In general, if two guys are very close or tied in points, you don’t think 20 more goals would tip the scales to that player?

 

[Haatley]

Cry me a river bud, Matthews clearly deserved his Hart last season. Enough of this silliness.

The guy who got suspended, didn't play the whole season, finished 6th in points, 10th in Selke.... whose team won without him in the line up.

Tell me more.

Lol, so the fans know more than the players who actually see these guys up close on the ice?



In general, if two guys are very close or tied in points, you don’t think 20 more goals would tip the scales to that player?

How many times did teams "see" Matthews "up close on the ice" vs how many times do fans watch games?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Matthews at this time hasn’t shown enough to finish remotely close as a finalist

 

[nturn06]

He didn't. He scored 50 goals in 60 some odd games.

Teemu scored 51 goals between Winnipeg games 27 and 76 during the 1992-93 season.

 

[hamzarocks]

The guy who got suspended, didn't play the whole season, finished 6th in points, 10th in Selke.... whose team won without him in the line up.

Tell me more.


How many times did teams "see" Matthews "up close on the ice" vs how many times do fans watch games?

6th in pts

But 2nd in ppg I believe

119 pts in 82 games

60 goals in 73 games.

10th in selke is better than McDavid, Huberdeau, Gaudreau last year

Matthews was the best player in the NHL last year for the reg season

McDavid for the playoffs.

McDavid is still the best in the NHL. He's in a tier of his own at the moment

Matthews is in the next tier with Draisaitl, MacK, Kuch, Makar, Mack

 

[nturn06]

pretty small list anyways and his name is still recorded to have completing a 50 in 50

Yea, very small list, since it is missing the official 50 in 50 (achieved 8 times)and is missing the 50 in the player's (but not teams) 50 games (achieved 6 times)....

So your post is: Look, I took out 14 players and mi list is only 8 players long, it is soo short

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

In general, if two guys are very close or tied in points, you don’t think 20 more goals would tip the scales to that player?

Besides from the Crosby/Sedin year, there's also the Thornton/Jagr year in 2005-06. Thornton finished only 2 points ahead and won the Hart despite Jagr finishing 25 goals ahead of him.

The only recent example of the opposite happening (ie. what you're suggesting) is Ovechkin/Malkin in 2009 where Malkin won the scoring title by 3 points but Ovechkin won the Hart when he scored 21 more goals.

Most other Hart wins involved players either running away with the scoring title or if the scoring title was close, so was the goal difference between the two top vote getters.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Besides from the Crosby/Sedin year, there's also the Thornton/Jagr year in 2005-06. Thornton finished only 2 points ahead and won the Hart despite Jagr finishing 25 goals ahead of him.

The only recent example of the opposite happening (ie. what you're suggesting) is Ovechkin/Malkin in 2009 where Malkin won the scoring title by 3 points but Ovechkin won the Hart when he scored 21 more goals.

Most other Hart wins involved players either running away with the scoring title or if the scoring title was close, so was the goal difference between the two top vote getters.

You’re using a couple very specific examples. I am talking in general, if two guys are tied in points with most else equal, most would lean toward the one with 20 or so more goals

I really didnt think that was such a controversial take

 

[BKarchitect]

No he won’t. But he’s still capable of going off on a tear and even if by his standards it’s a slightly down year it won’t remove him from the MacK/Drai/Matthews tier right below McDavid.

It’s a crazy notion here at HFB where you are either transcendent or overrated - but even superstars can have slightly less “superstary” seasons ocassionally. Doesn’t mean they’ve suddenly “lost it”.

Besides - let’s be real, TML fan or not (I’m certainly not) - the lasting impression of this season for Matthews won’t be what he does in the first 82. It’ll be what he does after that.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yea, very small list, since it is missing the official 50 in 50 (achieved 8 times)and is missing the 50 in the player's (but not teams) 50 games (achieved 6 times)....

So your post is: Look, I took out 14 players and mi list is only 8 players long, it is soo short

what do you mean I took out 14 players? it's a screenshot off wikipedia.... not my list

50 goals in 50 games - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nturn06]

what do you mean I took out 14 players? it's a screenshot off wikipedia.... not my list

50 goals in 50 games - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, you took a screen-shot of the third section out of 3. You left out the section "Oficial 50-in-50 scorers" and the subsection "50 in player's (not teams) 50 games".

The funny part is that the list you provided does not include the guy who actually scored above a goal/game in two different full seasons.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Not this year, I don't think. And I also don't think he hits 50 goals. I see him having a good season, with maybe 45 goals and 85-90 or so points. Not close to a Hart this time out. Or a Rocket. Just a "normal great season".

saving these quotes because when he's hot, he's hot and shooting sub 10% isn't his usual

Edit: he's at 11% now

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yes, you took a screen-shot of the third section out of 3. You left out the section "Oficial 50-in-50 scorers" and the subsection "50 in player's (not teams) 50 games".

The funny part is that the list you provided does not include the guy who actually scored above a goal/game in two different full seasons.

what was I suppose to take a screen shot of the entire page? I was literally pointing out how few people have completed what Matthews did last season.

I guess it's funny n your sad little world. Matthews' didnt score an official 50 in 50 starting from game 1 of the regular season he did it mid so why would I post something he's not part of? that's not even the point of my post.....

you may not think it's impressive but the rest of the non biased hockey fans do

 

[34]

The fraud Matthews won’t be able to swindle the League for another Hart. That ship has sailed for the good of the legitimacy of the Trophy.

Try posting when,

1. McDavid wins back to back Rockets
2. scores 50 goals in 50 games
3. scores 60 goals in a season
4. scores more goals than EVERYONE since entering the league


The only fraud is McDavid, being a big liability on D every time he is on the ice. The guy couldn’t play D if his life depended on it. Also his stats are nothing more than lame secondary assists in the weakest division in the NHL. You want to talk fraud. GTFO with that BS

 

[nturn06]

what was I suppose to take a screen shot of the entire page? I was literally pointing out how few people have completed what Matthews did last season.

I guess it's funny n your sad little world. Matthews' didnt score an official 50 in 50 starting from game 1 of the regular season he did it mid so why would I post something he's not part of? that's not even the point of my post.....

you may not think it's impressive but the rest of the non biased hockey fans do

Again, there were 22 different times (actually much more than that if you count that in some seasons Gretzky acomplished this feat multiple times) when a player completed 50 goals during 50 consecutive games.
You post a screenshot with a list of 8 players and commented that this is a short list.

My point is that people who scored the official 50 in 50 also accomplished the feat you reffer to, yet you are trying to make the feat look better by somehow ignoring them...

This is what always puzzled me about Matthews' fans: no matter what he acomplishes (and the 51 goals in 50 consecutive games is a huge achiemement), some people need to try to exagerate his acomplishments even more.... I never understood why, and this is what actually turns some people around here in so called "Toronto haters".

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Most people weren't saying he didn't score 51 goals over a 50 game span. People were stating it was not an official 50 in 50 as those feats are in the teams first 50 games, which Matthews goals were not. There are several other players who have also done this, most recently prior to Matthews was Teemu Selanne in the category they put Matthews in.

But what does it matter? Why does it matter If it's game 1-50, or 10-60, 25-75 or 30-80?

It's all 50 in 50 you said the last player to do it was Selanne, and I assume he did that the year he scored 76.

That should tell you How rare it is and how impressive it is.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

But what does it matter? Why does it matter If it's game 1-50, or 10-60, 25-75 or 30-80?

It's all 50 in 50 you said the last player to do it was Selanne, and I assume he did that the year he scored 76.

That should tell you How rare it is and how impressive it is.

The reason why it needs to be the first 50 to be official is really very simple. Richard did it in a 50 game season. There is significant symbolism to that, in addition to it being an even more difficult feat to actually do it in your teams first 50 games evidenced by even fewer having done that.

No one is saying what Matthews did isn't impressive, it absolutely is and those who say it's not are either trolling or just hating on him. That doesn't change the fact that it's not the same thing.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Again, there were 22 different times (actually much more than that if you count that in some seasons Gretzky acomplished this feat multiple times) when a player completed 50 goals during 50 consecutive games.
You post a screenshot with a list of 8 players and commented that this is a short list.

My point is that people who scored the official 50 in 50 also accomplished the feat you reffer to, yet you are trying to make the feat look better by somehow ignoring them...

This is what always puzzled me about Matthews' fans: no matter what he acomplishes (and the 51 goals in 50 consecutive games is a huge achiemement), some people need to try to exagerate his acomplishments even more.... I never understood why, and this is what actually turns some people around here in so called "Toronto haters".

Im not ignoring anything I literally posted what's on wikipedia. the section that Matthews is placed in.
I guess Wikipedia is wrong? that list is incorrect? well why not contact wikipedia and update them?
basically it's being credited as a 50 in 50 but added to the unofficial category.

I dunno how Im trying to make it seem better it's still an exclusive group that have done it.... isn't that enough?

what puzzles me about Leafs haters is no matter what Matthews or Toronto in general does it's shot down or made out to be a joke.

let me guess you were part of the Matthews didn't deserve the Hart or Lindsay crew

 

[Stealth1616]

he will be a top 3 MVP on his team that’s for sure

 

[nturn06]

Im not ignoring anything I literally posted what's on wikipedia. the section that Matthews is placed in.
I guess Wikipedia is wrong? that list is incorrect? well why not contact wikipedia and update them?
basically it's being credited as a 50 in 50 but added to the unofficial category.

I dunno how Im trying to make it seem better it's still an exclusive group that have done it.... isn't that enough?

what puzzles me about Leafs haters is no matter what Matthews or Toronto in general does it's shot down or made out to be a joke.

let me guess you were part of the Matthews didn't deserve the Hart or Lindsay crew

My issue is that the "section" he is placed in is basically others, posting that section out of context and commenting on how short it is, is missleading. Side note, this section of wikipedia only contains the players who reached the "unoficial" 50 in 50 in some midgames without achieving an official one same season, which makes this section much shorter than it actually is... But I am sure that all these details, that this list is only for this subsection, and is only containing these players was included nicely in your post or sreenshot, right?

It is like commenting that last season there was only one player in NHL who scored 99 points, and posting a list which ignores all 100+ point players. Yea I know, those players appear in I guess that since there is only one guy scoring 99 points, he must be amazing, right?