Confirmed with Link: Wild Trade 7th Round Pick (2024) for Maroon (20% retained) and Cajkovic

Digitalbooya

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Or if you're Fiala and don't get in line, then you're out? Guerin seems to be talking out his ass here. It's not like Minnesota isn't struggling to score points - I mean a 72 point producer....yeah we have those in spades.
If we didn’t have that $14-15M in dead cap, I don’t think Fiala would have been traded. Guerin did make the wrong choice in keeping Zucc and trading Fiala. But those moves were largely forced by cutting out negative impact players (Parise, Suter). It’s been said before that buying out those two allowed the Wild to have another year of Fiala. When they were bought out it opened up something like $10-11M in cap space.
 

57special

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As much as it pains me to say it, getting Faber and Ohgren/Yurov for Fiala might end up being a good hockey trade, nvm cap wise.

Will take time for it all to shake out, of course.
 

Minnewildsota

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As much as it pains me to say it, getting Faber and Ohgren/Yurov for Fiala might end up being a good hockey trade, nvm cap wise.

Will take time for it all to shake out, of course.
One could argue, and it may be a bit premature, that Faber for Fiala as a near even swap.
 

Minnewildsota

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Whom is a good locker room guy. So what are we talking about here?
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Digitalbooya

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We're talking about better on ice is far more important.
That's what I'm saying. When they cut Suter/Parise out they were killing two birds with one stone. Got rid of poor locker room personalities and players trending towards being fringe NHL players.

I guess I need to ask, who is this star player that isn't good in the locker room that we should have acquired or kept?
 

Wabit

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That's what I'm saying. When they cut Suter/Parise out they were killing two birds with one stone. Got rid of poor locker room personalities and players trending towards being fringe NHL players.

I guess I need to ask, who is this star player that isn't good in the locker room that we should have acquired or kept?

Do you miss seeing Fiala's name on here?

Suter should have been kept. He's still better than Middleton, Merrill, and Goli.

Staal/MarJo shouldn't have happened. I still think this cost MN at least one Playoff round win in the strange 20-21 season.

The most recent guy I wanted was E. Kane for cheap in the 21-22 season. I don't pay enough attention to league news/rumors to know who is and isn't a good locker room guy.
 

Digitalbooya

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Do you miss seeing Fiala's name on here?

Suter should have been kept. He's still better than Middleton, Merrill, and Goli.

Staal/MarJo shouldn't have happened. I still think this cost MN at least one Playoff round win in the strange 20-21 season.

The most recent guy I wanted was E. Kane for cheap in the 21-22 season. I don't pay enough attention to league news/rumors to know who is and isn't a good locker room guy.
Fiala wasn't traded because he was a locker room problem. Do people seriously have revisionist history on this?

Suter is f***ing trash. I cannot be more clear than that. If he is better than those guys, it's by the smallest of margins and those players ARE fringe NHLers. Stars fans hate him and his current cap hit is less than half of what it was here. I'd wager that some of our Iowa LD are better than Middleton/Merrill/Goligoski, but they are stuck with the contract situation that allows them to be in the AHL.

The Staal for Johansson trade was a wash. If Johansson was as good as he is right now back then, then most would not have had a problem with it. It cost them a playoff round win? You realize that Staal put up a grand total of 13 points during the 20-21 season, right?
 

Wabit

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Fiala wasn't traded because he was a locker room problem. Do people seriously have revisionist history on this?

Suter is f***ing trash. I cannot be more clear than that. If he is better than those guys, it's by the smallest of margins and those players ARE fringe NHLers. Stars fans hate him and his current cap hit is less than half of what it was here. I'd wager that some of our Iowa LD are better than Middleton/Merrill/Goligoski, but they are stuck with the contract situation that allows them to be in the AHL.

The Staal for Johansson trade was a wash. If Johansson was as good as he is right now back then, then most would not have had a problem with it. It cost them a playoff round win? You realize that Staal put up a grand total of 13 points during the 20-21 season, right?

Staal also was in the Cup Finals that year (and again this season). I also remember that Rask was centering Kap/Zucc in the Playoffs.

It doesn't friggin matter that Suter is the smallest margin better that what we currently have. They are all a bigger cap hit than he would have been if he wasn't bought out. The buyout savings for Suter's cap hit for MN is $166,668 this season. That makes Merrill $1m more expensive, Goli $1.8m more expensive, and Middleton $2.3m more expensive. It's the same thing next season. Then there is 4 more years of an $833k cap hit.

The buyouts are just bad math and have been since they happened.
 
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BagHead

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Staal also was in the Cup Finals that year (and again this season). I also remember that Rask was centering Kap/Zucc in the Playoffs.

It doesn't friggin matter that Suter is the smallest margin better that what we currently have. They are all a bigger cap hit than he would have been if he wasn't bought out. The buyout savings for Suter's cap hit for MN is $166,668 this season. That makes Merrill $1m more expensive, Goli $1.8m more expensive, and Middleton $2.3m more expensive. It's the same thing next season. Then there is 4 more years of an $833k cap hit.

The buyouts are just bad math and have been since they happened.
Not to be pedantic, but those should be "or's" not "and's". The cap hit doesn't occur over and over for each player you could apply it to, it happens once. Your overall point is good, though, that the defense is more expensive with Suter off it than on it.

I will say that the signings were bad math, not the buyouts. But if we do want to call the buyouts bad math, we need to acknowledge that the cap recapture should they retire was worse math yet. It'll be easy to say what was best in hindsight, but Guerin didn't have that luxury. The buyouts were potentially better than keeping them, personality issues aside.
 

Saga of the Elk

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Both the signings and the buyouts were bad.

Really don't see the point of this trade either. Maroon seems like a good guy but his skating makes Reaves look like Mogilny. The other player is from the Steve Downie / Jesse Boulerice school, really not sure what the plan is there.

I wish some GM would make a trade so I could stop looking at this one.
 

Wabit

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Not to be pedantic, but those should be "or's" not "and's". The cap hit doesn't occur over and over for each player you could apply it to, it happens once. Your overall point is good, though, that the defense is more expensive with Suter off it than on it.

I will say that the signings were bad math, not the buyouts. But if we do want to call the buyouts bad math, we need to acknowledge that the cap recapture should they retire was worse math yet. It'll be easy to say what was best in hindsight, but Guerin didn't have that luxury. The buyouts were potentially better than keeping them, personality issues aside.

The recapture if they retired (and never traded) would have been less of a cap hit than the buyouts were. There would also have been no dead cap for extra 4 years.

Parise/Suter recapture vs buyout cap hits
21-22 $5,538,462‬ x4 or $2,371,794 + $6,371,794 + 7,371,794 x2 + $833,333 x 4
22-23 $6,205,128 x 3 or $6,371,794 + 7,371,794 x2 + $833,333 x 4
23-24 $6,538,462 x 2 or $7,371,794 x2 + $833,333 x 4
25-25 $6,538,462 or $7,371,794 + $833,333 x 4

21-22 was the only season they "saved" any money, roughly $10.33m. $5m was spent on Goli, $2.25m on Kulikov, and had Rask eating up $4m. They traded Strum for a more expensive Jost and added MAF at the deadline and still ended up with $1.5m in cap space.
 

BagHead

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The recapture if they retired (and never traded) would have been less of a cap hit than the buyouts were. There would also have been no dead cap for extra 4 years.

Parise/Suter recapture vs buyout cap hits
21-22 $5,538,462‬ x4 or $2,371,794 + $6,371,794 + 7,371,794 x2 + $833,333 x 4
22-23 $6,205,128 x 3 or $6,371,794 + 7,371,794 x2 + $833,333 x 4
23-24 $6,538,462 x 2 or $7,371,794 x2 + $833,333 x 4
25-25 $6,538,462 or $7,371,794 + $833,333 x 4

21-22 was the only season they "saved" any money, roughly $10.33m. $5m was spent on Goli, $2.25m on Kulikov, and had Rask eating up $4m. They traded Strum for a more expensive Jost and added MAF at the deadline and still ended up with $1.5m in cap space.
I should have been clearer in my meaning than just saying "math". What I meant was that if that recapture penalty happened with the Wild at the cap ceiling, how would they get cap compliant in short order? It wouldn't just be giving good players away for Future Considerations, it would likely require us paying draft picks and prospects to get teams to take our good players for Future Considerations.

The alternative would be to keep the cap space open anyway, in case the retirements were to happen, but then what's the point of keeping them at all? Especially if one of them is causing locker room problems.
 

Wabit

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I should have been clearer in my meaning than just saying "math". What I meant was that if that recapture penalty happened with the Wild at the cap ceiling, how would they get cap compliant in short order? It wouldn't just be giving good players away for Future Considerations, it would likely require us paying draft picks and prospects to get teams to take our good players for Future Considerations.

The alternative would be to keep the cap space open anyway, in case the retirements were to happen, but then what's the point of keeping them at all? Especially if one of them is causing locker room problems.

They were already on the roster and would have been figured in as a cap hit so the recapture wouldn't effect anything, it would open up a roster spot and a little more than $1m in cap to replace them. Nothing needs to be done to become cap compliant.
 

Digitalbooya

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Staal also was in the Cup Finals that year (and again this season). I also remember that Rask was centering Kap/Zucc in the Playoffs.

It doesn't friggin matter that Suter is the smallest margin better that what we currently have. They are all a bigger cap hit than he would have been if he wasn't bought out. The buyout savings for Suter's cap hit for MN is $166,668 this season. That makes Merrill $1m more expensive, Goli $1.8m more expensive, and Middleton $2.3m more expensive. It's the same thing next season. Then there is 4 more years of an $833k cap hit.

The buyouts are just bad math and have been since they happened.
This is the train of thought of people who have never worked in a team and think that numbers are the end all be all. People are a lot more complex than that.
 
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BagHead

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They were already on the roster and would have been figured in as a cap hit so the recapture wouldn't effect anything, it would open up a roster spot and a little more than $1m in cap to replace them. Nothing needs to be done to become cap compliant.
The more I thought about this, the more I realized you're right. The only issue would have been if we'd traded them and they'd retired, which almost happened with Parise to the Islanders (minus the retirement part) so I'm not sure Guerin wouldn't have done a move like that eventually.
 

GoldenSeal

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And the overall inability for the team to show up in the playoffs. I mean, isn't that where the intangibles(i.e. locker room) are supposed to make the difference?

Instead, we see teams, year after year, that fold ,and show no signs of being able to overcome adversity.

Give me a toxic room that wins, any day. Pro hockey is about winning. If you want to get along and love one another go on a Yoga retreat.
Maroon doesn’t do yoga, he goes to war alongside his teammates. That’s the mindset he brings into the locker room and folks really buy in to it.
 

BagHead

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Maroon doesn’t do yoga, he goes to war alongside his teammates. That’s the mindset he brings into the locker room and folks really buy in to it.
Yeah, they bought into it with Reaves, too. That's sort of the point of our consternation here, he's more of the same. Until other major parts of the team get fixed, a guy like Maroon does nothing to help the Wild, for all his grit and locker room presence. It's like hiring Tony Robbins to encourage the workers at Nikola Motor.
 

GoldenSeal

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Yeah, they bought into it with Reaves, too. That's sort of the point of our consternation here, he's more of the same. Until other major parts of the team get fixed, a guy like Maroon does nothing to help the Wild, for all his grit and locker room presence. It's like hiring Tony Robbins to encourage the workers at Nikola Motor.
I totally get the sentiment but Reaver ain’t got 3 Cups in a row or the charisma that Pat has. Folks in a locker room look at you differently when you roll in coming off those and pretty recently. Huge difference between the two guys character-wise and “accomplishment-wise” and I absolutely love Reaves.
 

Wabit

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I totally get the sentiment but Reaver ain’t got 3 Cups in a row or the charisma that Pat has. Folks in a locker room look at you differently when you roll in coming off those and pretty recently. Huge difference between the two guys character-wise and “accomplishment-wise” and I absolutely love Reaves.

I'd agree if the player was top-6/top-4 player, or even a bottom of the lineup players filling a team need. Neither of these fit the circumstances.

I don't mind the trade because MN needs cheap depth due to their cap, but Maroon isn't the "missing piece" the team needs. It's no different than Matt Cullen was a few years ago when MN signed him away from PIT.
 
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