Post-Game Talk: Wild at Rangers - December 23

[chosen]

I just don't get the thinking behind "they all suck and there's no better options."

Then play the less ****** option? Why is it okay to play the absolute worst option you have 20 minutes a night on the top pair?

McDonagh - Holden
Staal - Clendening
Skjei - Girardi/Klein

Those are the best D pairings you can create out of the garbage currently on the team. I'm willing to give Girardi a chance on the 3rd pair since he was at least passable when he was paired with Skjei back in October getting 16 minutes a night. Clendening compliments Staal in that he can at least move the puck even if he may be deficient in his own zone and he brings a better presence on PP2 than Skjei. You don't want Holden on the top pair obviously but he's looked really good the past month and a half and he's the best option over Klein and Girardi.

I refuse to accept the fact that the RD on this team blow as a reason to play Girardi 20 minutes a night. There's no fix all solution currently on the roster but that doesn't mean you consistently deploy the worst pairings and personnel you have. Find a way to mitigate how ****** they are.

Why do you believe AV doesn't do what you suggest? My guess is that he understands how bad Girardi is but still believes he is a better option than Clendening. I have no idea if he's right, but he sees these guys a lot more than we do.

I also believe that if management agrees with you, it's up to them to issue an ultimatum to AV. Change it around or you're gone.

 

[Larrybiv]

Totally agree. They got lazy and did not throw a body and let MINNY walk them all night. The d is not as bad as some believe, the goalie tonight was a joke.

Minny has the least amount of hits in the league. We are not known to be best at dishing hits, but we are NOT the worst. Would've been the best gameplan to come out and throw some good hits, to set the tone. You're NOT LEAVING MSG with 2 pts.

Obviously though,they didn't want to sustain an injury so that they couldnt open up their Christmas presents. Pathetic showing. Good on Minnesota and their winning, never say die attitude. We needed Gaborik this game.

 

[Larrybiv]

Why do you believe AV doesn't do what you suggest? My guess is that he understands how bad Girardi is but still believes he is a better option than Clendening. I have no idea if he's right, but he sees these guys a lot more than we do.

I also believe that if management agrees with you, it's up to them to issue an ultimatum to AV. Change it around or you're gone.

Absolutely, loyalty only goes so far. Has to be that Dan is still better than Clendy, although most here ALWAYS want to be proven they're right. AV has to know better than we do.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Why do you believe AV doesn't do what you suggest? My guess is that he understands how bad Girardi is but still believes he is a better option than Clendening. I have no idea if he's right, but he sees these guys a lot more than we do.

I also believe that if management agrees with you, it's up to them to issue an ultimatum to AV. Change it around or you're gone.

Well he either believes Girardi is best suited to handle those minutes or he has a loyalty to the veteran who has in the past shown capable of handling it. Problem is he hasn't been capable of handling it in years.

The team played it's best hockey back in October with pairings similar to what I listed. I just think it's insanity to see the team have defensive meltdowns like we've seen and the only change being switching of lines.

 

[Larrybiv]

I said this a little bit ago. We need at very very least Nash back. I'm now convinced he is THE most important and essential Rangers forward. Nash IMO, is the straw that stirs the drink for us as with him in lineup, we at very least have two solid scoring lines and it makes the Hayes,Miller, Grabs trio much much more effective as they are than slotted appropriately. So in essence with Nash in lineup we than have 3 solid lines. Withought Nash, we have just one.

Yeah Max, totally agree and have been saying this for years now. It's especially evident this year, as he's having a rock solid 1/3 of season this far. Subtract him and the top 3 lines look muddled and i HATE that AV continues to juggle in game.

Defensively he's a menace and makes our PK dangerously lethal. Seems every shift lately he's been noticeable. Hope this additional injury doesnt slow him down, last one we were lucky and came back strong. Perfect time to get healthy.

 

[TheTakedown]

I'm glad it happened. AV deserves it. Benching skjei when Klein Girardi and mcdonagh are the worst dmen out there every night? Glad it blew up in his face.

And hank Jesus right back to form. Horrendous goaltending I mean a complete joke. Team was rolling early. This guy needs his head examined. The bad games far far out weigh the good ones this year.

Maybe one day he'll stop being so stubborn and listen to actual statistics instead of they voice inside his head that always thinks he is right

 

[TheTakedown]

AV just doesn't know how to assess defensemen.

This is the problem. AVs defensive evaluations are so flawed. Can't adapt to the game

 

[TheTakedown]

Well he either believes Girardi is best suited to handle those minutes or he has a loyalty to the veteran who has in the past shown capable of handling it. Problem is he hasn't been capable of handling it in years.

The team played it's best hockey back in October with pairings similar to what I listed. I just think it's insanity to see the team have defensive meltdowns like we've seen and the only change being switching of lines.

Unfortunately AVs past player management tactics show that the issue is the former, not the latter. It is the unwavering loyalty to Girardi, not because of Girardi's playing time.

Unless management has this ass backwards thing that if Girardi is on the top pairing then everyone will think he's a top pairing defenseman... We'll call it the Cam Fowler effect.

They need to limit Girardi's minutes by putting him on the third pair for 15 mins a game + PK time. Klein and Clendening should be switching every few games for several games straight... Those two things need to be done in order to actually win games...

 

[chosen]

This is the problem. AVs defensive evaluations are so flawed. Can't adapt to the game

If you are correct, why do you think management allows AV to do it?

Either management disagrees with you or they are at fault for allowing this to continue. I don't think there is a third possibility.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Well he either believes Girardi is best suited to handle those minutes or he has a loyalty to the veteran who has in the past shown capable of handling it. Problem is he hasn't been capable of handling it in years.

The team played it's best hockey back in October with pairings similar to what I listed. I just think it's insanity to see the team have defensive meltdowns like we've seen and the only change being switching of lines.

There's only so much you can do. Doesn't matter how many times you throw the dice, if you keep throwing a two and a one, it gets frustrating quickly! The defense wasn't fixed. Still think McIlrath needed more time.

 

[wafflepadsave]

If you are correct, why do you think management allows AV to do it?

Either management disagrees with you or they are at fault for allowing this to continue. I don't think there is a third possibility.

The third possibility was Gorton being able to make a trade or two , defensively speaking. Gms decided to be _icks so nothing happened! Now we're on a ship taking on water.

 

[Boruto]

He's a veteran coach who has earned the right to do as he wishes with his personnel whether those decisions are good or bad. In this case, bad. Veteran coaches generally get to have control of their locker room and personnel. The rumors that Patrick Roy quit late during the summer, handing the Avs a tough coaching search situation was partially caused by, as the report or rumor from back then goes, the removal of his position as the something something something (might be president of personnel or hockey ops or something to that effect) that would give him less say on the players he wanted. There's certainly a clear divide in the boundaries of what a GM does and what the coach wants. Of course, working as a team, there should be more common ground than not or you'll get a Tallon, Rowe, Gallant fiasco. The roster deployment is AV. Gorts knows how bad the right side of the defense is. The sense I got with all the denial of buyout considerations during the summer is that Gorton isn't deluded about Girardi. He's trying to reset Sather's era over a period of a few off seasons rather than trying to do too much over one summer. The push on Shattenkirk despite his pending UFA/interest in the Rangers and the push for a tough trade for Trouba makes it more than clear what Gorts thinks of the defense on the right side. Klein was great before the season started so Gorton knows we don't have a #1 RHD and at best 2 #2 RHD if not worse.

Gorts did what he could and I think he tried a lot of things but didn't want to bleed assets anymore after the E.Staal bs last February. There's no sense of management allowing this or that to continue. It's an ongoing process. There's no trade available and it's best to wait for something to happen instead of forcing something and gutting our depth elsewhere for a competent RHD. Gorts just wants AV to do the best he can and from what we can see, AV is having a hard time with making the best out of the crap defense corp he owns because of the notion that vets are vets are vets are vets. 50% "not management's fault" and 50% AV's fault for not figuring this stuff out. 50% Sather, 50% Vigneault. Well, probably 75% Sather for signing Staal and Girardi instead of re-signing Stralman and making it impossible for Gorton to re-sign Yandle.

 

[BBKers]

Clendening looked very rusty last game. Grenade like puck control. No wonder with all the splinters he must have in his posterior. He likely looks the same at practice. Inconsistent and a bit apprehensive on D but mostly good with the puck. Girardi has been God awful for a long time now. But AV knows what he gets and apparently Chooses this, regardless of what we think here, over what he sees in Clendening. I guess he continues to make this call until the **** really hits the Wall. Which it IMO already has. Finding a third option here would be alot better though. AV also ran McIllraith outta Town wanting no part of him, like I said there were mobility issues exposed at practice for a long time that he had all along and AV could not get over it. I do not like him, for other reasons, but he may have been right here so Maybe it was for the better. Will be interesting to see what Solution Gorton comes up with. Once we (hopefully) get healthy up front there will be a numbers game put into motion. Thinking we will try to get a minor pickup then and thereafter maybe something more at the draft. I know they have been trying to strengthen Hartford but the market has been very dead. Like a popsicle shop in the Arctic in mid January. The bigger move on D will likely wait until after the draft + expansion draft in the offseason. I cannot see Girardi finishing this contract as a Ranger. But who knows?

 

[NYRFAN218]

If you are correct, why do you think management allows AV to do it?

Either management disagrees with you or they are at fault for allowing this to continue. I don't think there is a third possibility.

I think it's clear management knows the D sucks too otherwise there wouldn't be rumors out there of them looking to upgrade it. But it's also never good for management to step in and start dictating who should play to the coach. Even if AV deploys the wrong D; I'd be pretty annoyed if management started telling him who should play and who shouldn't. The coach should have full control of the team given to him. If management disagrees with what he's doing then he should be let go. Is what he's doing with the D egregious enough to get sacked? According to management, no. End of the day they know the personnel they gave him sucks. And a team isn't going to fire a coach with the record the Rangers have (unless you're Lou Lamoriello or there's other things going on behind the scenes). But that doesn't mean he's not open to criticism for the way he has deployed the personnel he does have. I think he's done a very good job with the forwards and goaltenders (goaltenders he doesn't really have much to do with as that's Allaire but he pushed the right buttons with sitting Henrik and rolling with Raanta). I think he's done horribly with the defense.