Why the Canadians suck. 10 years in the making.

[salbutera]

I blame regulation of free markets and lack of hockey culture down south. Year after year we subsidize shitty markets by self-imposing a limit to spending that allow non-hockey towns to survive. If these towns could support a losing franchise, and gradually increase revenue and interest through youth programs, as they do in European soccer leagues, then we wouldn't be in this predicament. I have no idea why the major hockey markets accepted this raw deal.

FYI, youth hockey has taken off in Dallas, Cali, Az, Fla, STL

 

[Lshap]

FYI, youth hockey has taken off in Dallas, Cali, Az, Fla, STL

Within 10 years there will be more American-born players than Canadian.

 

[salbutera]

Within 10 years there will be more American-born players than Canadian.

I believe Michael Farber is working on an article for Sports Illustrated specifically regarding the drop in Cdn players to 42% (lowest ever), combined w drop in registration for youth hockey all over Canada and what that means for interest in hockey going fwd

 

[BJCOLLINS]

Michkov will haunt us.

Tkachuk IS haunting us, he was the BPA, yet once again Habs brass believed they were the smartest people on the draft floor.
Love him or hate him Tkachuk is an undeniable force on the first line.

 

[SOLR]

Tkachuk IS haunting us, he was the BPA, yet once again Habs brass believed they were the smartest people on the draft floor.
Love him or hate him Tkachuk is an undeniable force on the first line.

But he's not a competitive first-line player at all. On any good team, he's 2nd line player at best.

You can't win them all. Kucherov is haunting us a lot more than Tkachuk just to name a much more relevant player in terms of winning cups.

 

[salbutera]

But he's not a competitive first-line player at all. On any good team, he's 2nd line player at best.

You can't win them all. Kucherov is haunting us a lot more than Tkachuk just to name a much more relevant player in terms of winning cups.

Woah…35G / 80pts+ just last season and he’s close to PPG again & does it while being a physical / in your face game changer who is ideally made for playoff hockey

He is absolutely a 1st liner and will only get better w more experience

 

[SOLR]

Woah…35G / 80pts+ just last season and he’s close to PPG again & does it while being a physical / in your face game changer who is ideally made for playoff hockey

He is absolutely a 1st liner and will only get better w more experience

So why are the Sens not winning then (not even directionally)? and why are his stats pretty bad as soon as a game is actually important.... history is loaded with 80 pts guys on terrible teams who are 50 pts guys on good teams...

 

[salbutera]

So why are the Sens not winning then (not even directionally)? and why are his stats pretty bad as soon as a game is actually important.... history is loaded with 80 pts guys on terrible teams who are 50 pts guys on good teams...

Why have Edm done squat w two top-5 players in the NHL for last 8-years? Why have Leafs done squat w Fab-4? Why does Buf not even come close to playoffs every year despite numerous top-5 picks?

Hockey is the ultimate TEAM game, if the Sens had an actual NHL caliber G and some veteran leadership on D might be different ..

FYI - Kucherov in his first 5-playoff appearances was below his seasonal PPG avg. He took off in his 6th playoff appearance (1st Cup win).

 

[BJCOLLINS]

But he's not a competitive first-line player at all. On any good team, he's 2nd line player at best.

You can't win them all. Kucherov is haunting us a lot more than Tkachuk just to name a much more relevant player in terms of winning cups.

Okay we’ll have to agree to disagree on your perspective here. The point is Tkachuk is undeniably a better player than KK and is a top line player.

your point regarding Kucherov is a irrelevant…..he was passed over by every team in the league, some twice.

Tkachuk was projected as a top 3 pick & we owned pick #3.

 

[SOLR]

Okay we’ll have to agree to disagree on your perspective here. The point is Tkachuk is undeniably a better player than KK and is a top line player.

your point regarding Kucherov is a irrelevant…..he was passed over by every team in the league, some twice.

Tkachuk was projected as a top 3 pick & we owned pick #3.

It's only irrelevant if you love losing.

Why have Edm done squat w two top-5 players in the NHL for last 8-years? Why have Leafs done squat w Fab-4? Why does Buf not even come close to playoffs every year despite numerous top-5 picks?

Hockey is the ultimate TEAM game, if the Sens had an actual NHL caliber G and some veteran leadership on D might be different ..

FYI - Kucherov in his first 5-playoff appearances was below his seasonal PPG avg. He took off in his 6th playoff appearance (1st Cup win).

They have not done squat; they have reached the cups semi-finals?? Are you kidding me? loll
And have progressed every year for the past 5.

Leafs have their own bag of issues, they are running a giving 50% of your cap to 4 players experiment. But they are always in the playoffs, they have a problem winning on depth once there.

 

[Lshap]

Tkachuk IS haunting us, he was the BPA, yet once again Habs brass believed they were the smartest people on the draft floor.
Love him or hate him Tkachuk is an undeniable force on the first line.

Tell me about it...

A great way to spike your blood pressure is to imagine Tkachuk on our team for the 2021 SCF.

 

[Kosseca]

Issues are.... plentiful:

Bad GM
Bad coach
Bad drafting and development
Bad luck with high draft years
Bad weather
Bad political system/tax regime
Bad media
Bad fans/hockey culture stemming from years of winning
Bad French/English dynamic

It would seems that since Roy got traded, we have been in perfect storm to hit rock bottom and stay there.

 

[Tabarouette]

Michkov will haunt us.

ain't no way that guy can ever get more than 2 points a game against us if Reinbacher is defending

 

[salbutera]

Issues are.... plentiful:

Bad GM
Bad coach
Bad drafting and development
Bad luck with high draft years
Bad weather
Bad political system/tax regime
Bad media
Bad fans/hockey culture stemming from years of winning
Bad French/English dynamic

It would seems that since Roy got traded, we have been in perfect storm to hit rock bottom and stay there.

Roy was traded when NHL players were given more say & autonomy. None of the Habs GMs prior to 1994, had to deal with players having much is any power or say in where they wanted to play except Langway who stood firm on his demand to be traded home to the US.

Habs drafting for scoring fwd especially 1st round drafting has sucked for over 50-years

 

[Kosseca]

Roy was traded when NHL players were given more say & autonomy. None of the Habs GMs prior to 1994, had to deal with players having much is any power or say in where they wanted to play except Langway who stood firm on his demand to be traded home to the US.

Habs drafting for scoring fwd especially 1st round drafting has sucked for over 50-years

Roy was traded by a bad GM as a result of a situation set by a bad coach. Owner wasn't top noch either, but he was less of a factor other then requiring that these two where in place because Habs needed french speaking people, not the best one available. Why French speaking... well the media obviously! Cant have a PR storm around this team!

Autonomy of player plays a role after, when it is impossible to get a decent UFA to come over here.

As for drafting, well yeah they miss the mark all the time. That said, each time MTL got into the top5 pick, is was in a meh year. It dosent help when on top you pick KK in lieu of Tkachuk, but still there is no McDavid available when we pick 1OV

 

[salbutera]

Roy was traded by a bad GM as a result of a situation set by a bad coach. Owner wasn't top noch either, but he was less of a factor other then requiring that these two where in place because Habs needed french speaking people, not the best one available. Why French speaking... well the media obviously! Cant have a PR storm around this team!

Autonomy of player plays a role after, when it is impossible to get a decent UFA to come over here.

As for drafting, well yeah they miss the mark all the time. That said, each time MTL got into the top5 pick, is was in a meh year. It dosent help when on top you pick KK in lieu of Tkachuk, but still there is no McDavid available when we pick 1OV

It was a different very charged political environment - sovereignty referendum was around the corner. People can choose to dis it all they want but businesses need to conform to their paying customers… it’s a reality no other NHL team has had to deal with except habs over last 60+ years

Today it’s a different political dynamic - Mtl is very different from the rest of the province, and that difference has allowed an American hockey ops lead and rebuild / retool to be implemented.

 

[OldCraig71]

One other thing that has affected this franchise that hasn't been mentioned is our winning history. Just a short time ago our old arch-rival had a ceremony to commemorate breaking the curse of losing to us in the playoffs for 45 years and it was comical, to say the least. The Habs by comparison could have 5 ceremonies a season to commemorate things of much higher significance than breaking a losing streak lol.

We have become a brand that has cashed in on the glory of the past without a hunger to be more, we are an institution much like the Yankees in Baseball. We were the gold standard in hockey, the organization that others tried to mimic and that died 30 years ago. Gillette was our best chance at reclaiming that but sadly he had other interests and the Molson family swooped back in. We are now worth 2.5 billion, quadruple the price paid by Molson and company, all of this while winning nothing. We are a cash cow without any new banner hanging at the Bell Centre.

There are plenty of reasons why we have been bad but I believe that the lack of urgency created by enormous wealth is the reason why we have been bad for so long. As much as we would like to believe that the goal for the CH is to win cups, I believe that ownership has been content to deliver a mediocre product because of the growing bottom line. Cheers.

 

[Tabarouette]

One other thing that has affected this franchise that hasn't been mentioned is our winning history. Just a short time ago our old arch-rival had a ceremony to commemorate breaking the curse of losing to us in the playoffs for 45 years and it was comical, to say the least. The Habs by comparison could have 5 ceremonies a season to commemorate things of much higher significance than breaking a losing streak lol.

We have become a brand that has cashed in on the glory of the past without a hunger to be more, we are an institution much like the Yankees in Baseball. We were the gold standard in hockey, the organization that others tried to mimic and that died 30 years ago. Gillette was our best chance at reclaiming that but sadly he had other interests and the Molson family swooped back in. We are now worth 2.5 billion, quadruple the price paid by Molson and company, all of this while winning nothing. We are a cash cow without any new banner hanging at the Bell Centre.

There are plenty of reasons why we have been bad but I believe that the lack of urgency created by enormous wealth is the reason why we have been bad for so long. As much as we would like to believe that the goal for the CH is to win cups, I believe that ownership has been content to deliver a mediocre product because of the growing bottom line. Cheers.

Honestly, I agree, but it feels like there's been a tiny shift the past 2-3 years where they kinda caught on that half of the people in the stands have never seen the people in the video packages. The messaging and marketing has been a little more focused on the present so I have hope that we might be departing that era

Like idk how to tell people this but half the teenagers currently in high school weren't born when Koivu left Montreal, it's unsustainable and getting more unsustainable by the minute

 

[salbutera]

One other thing that has affected this franchise that hasn't been mentioned is our winning history. Just a short time ago our old arch-rival had a ceremony to commemorate breaking the curse of losing to us in the playoffs for 45 years and it was comical, to say the least. The Habs by comparison could have 5 ceremonies a season to commemorate things of much higher significance than breaking a losing streak lol.

We have become a brand that has cashed in on the glory of the past without a hunger to be more, we are an institution much like the Yankees in Baseball. We were the gold standard in hockey, the organization that others tried to mimic and that died 30 years ago. Gillette was our best chance at reclaiming that but sadly he had other interests and the Molson family swooped back in. We are now worth 2.5 billion, quadruple the price paid by Molson and company, all of this while winning nothing. We are a cash cow without any new banner hanging at the Bell Centre.

There are plenty of reasons why we have been bad but I believe that the lack of urgency created by enormous wealth is the reason why we have been bad for so long. As much as we would like to believe that the goal for the CH is to win cups, I believe that ownership has been content to deliver a mediocre product because of the growing bottom line. Cheers.

Let’s put it in perspective, when Frank Selke Sr left Leafs to join Habs in 1947, Habs wouldn’t win for another 6-years. From 1953-1979 Habs won 16-of-24 Cups.

In their first 44-years of existence they had won 6-Cups

….it was a 26-year anomaly, which is great for creating a legendary myth

 

[OldCraig71]

Honestly, I agree, but it feels like there's been a tiny shift the past 2-3 years where they kinda caught on that half of the people in the stands have never seen the people in the video packages. The messaging and marketing has been a little more focused on the present so I have hope that we might be departing that era

Like idk how to tell people this but half the teenagers currently in high school weren't born when Koivu left Montreal, it's unsustainable and getting more unsustainable by the minute

That could be true to a certain extent but most of the Hab fas I know are 2nd and 3rd generation and the younger kids tend to Follow Crosby, McDavid or Mackinnon's teams because talent is easy to like. I don't know of many young hockey players who want to grow up to be Joel Armia(Kotkaniemi maybe ) They follow the talent. Our fans are mostly fans because their dad or uncle was. Outside of Carey Price in the last 10 years, who would the young kids idolize?

I believe the reason we haven't strived to be more is because of the enormous fan base and the big dollars generated because of it. We haven't won anything in 30 years and the stands are still full, the franchise also draws big revenue from two tv deals. The urgency would have been different if the crowds had gone away, there would have been a greater effort to attract the best people to run the team to put an exciting product on the ice but Molson didn't need it.

 

[OldCraig71]

Let’s put it in perspective, when Frank Selke Sr left Leafs to join Habs in 1947, Habs wouldn’t win for another 6-years. From 1953-1979 Habs won 16-of-24 Cups.

In their first 44-years of existence they had won 6-Cups

….it was a 26-year anomaly, which is great for creating a legendary myth

Our 24 cups leads the NHL by a large margin and despite the gaps there isn't another franchise even close.

 

[dcyhabs]

Okay we’ll have to agree to disagree on your perspective here. The point is Tkachuk is undeniably a better player than KK and is a top line player.

your point regarding Kucherov is a irrelevant…..he was passed over by every team in the league, some twice.

Tkachuk was projected as a top 3 pick & we owned pick #3.

Tkachuk was projected as a top 5 pick. The top 3 were pretty consistent on most lists with Zadina significantly ahead on aggregate. They were probable better off with KK than Zadina, but Tkachuk is a much better player than both.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

It's only irrelevant if you love losing.


They have not done squat; they have reached the cups semi-finals?? Are you kidding me? loll
And have progressed every year for the past

Tkachuk was projected as a top 5 pick. The top 3 were pretty consistent on most lists with Zadina significantly ahead on aggregate. They were probable better off with KK than Zadina, but Tkachuk is a much better player than both.

I was surprised how high Zadina went, I watched him live many times & thought he might go late first early second.

 

[Frankenheimer]

I believe Michael Farber is working on an article for Sports Illustrated specifically regarding the drop in Cdn players to 42% (lowest ever), combined w drop in registration for youth hockey all over Canada and what that means for interest in hockey going fwd

Maybe part of it is the fact Canadian teams suck balls and haven't won a cup in 30 years.

 

[salbutera]

Maybe part of it is the fact Canadian teams suck balls and haven't won a cup in 30 years.

Probably say it has more to do w how expen$ive a sport it is combined w changing demographics