Why Rebuilding Doesn't Work and How It Can

[Edge]

And I just re-read this and realized that I even forgot to include Buch and ADA in the list I compiled in response.

So add those two to the equation as well - def. not 1998ish.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The biggest difference between now and 1998 is that the coaches and management are generally on the same page. That was as far as possible as being the case in 1998.

Rebuilding only works when everyone is on the same page about the direction of the team. Dont get me wrong, I think Gorton and AV both realize the team is quickly headed towards a come to Jesus moment where they need to decide whats best moving forward -- but we dont see the open warfare that was occurring during that lovely Colin Campbell/John Muckler/Neil Smith days.

Other than a once competitive team headed towards the downside, I dont see the comparisons to 1998. I have confidence this will get turned around quicker.

 

[Beacon]

even if we exclude all the recent draft picks and all of them bust, in 1998 we still didn't have an equivalent for Zibanejad, Kreider, Miller, Hayes, Vesey, and Fast. In fact those 1998 Rangers would've loved to have had 24, 26, 24, 25, 24 and 25 year players in those roles. That also doesn't take into account a 1998 equivalent of having 28 year old defensemen in McD and Shattenkirk, or a 23 year old version of Skjei.

As I acknowledged in the OP, you have a point that we're probably ahead of 1998 now. But at least some of it is hindsight.

Sundstrom was a 23 year old top 10 pick who just came off two 50 point seasons as a second liner. There was every hope he'd be at least as good as Miller today (different style though). Who knew he'll regress?!

Kovalev was a better version of Kreider: very strong, amazing skater, but Kovalev had far superior skills, which eventually made him a 100 point player.

Leetch at 30 had more value than McDonagh at 28. Beukebbom had a lot more value than Staal or Smith.

Harvey was a better role player than Fast.

Graves was showing signs of wear and tear, but still had more value than Nash has today.

LaFontaine, a ppg player, had a ton of value as a TDL rental.

Karpovtsev, Landgon, PJ Stock, Cairns were good young bottom line/pair guys.

Plus prospects like Savard, Mike York, Dube, Cloutier, Cherneski, Brown, Jarvis, Henry, Cropley all gave us hope no less than our current crop of Lias, Chytil, Pionk, Nieves.

 

[True Blue]

It does amaze me that we deal away 1st like nothing and then have 2 in one year and everyone wants to build around them. Maybe don’t give them away like candy anymore?

Remember the draft is a complete crap shoot. Right? Why bother even scouting players or having first round picks since it is all arbitrary. Unless of course, the player taken looks to have some skill. Then the rebuild can commence.

 

[E-Train]

I disagree with the assessment that Savard and Dube were viewed more highly than what we have now. And I do that based on two factors, I was working for the Rangers at the time, and I was also writing for HockeysFuture. In 1998, Christian Dube was already struggling to adjust to the AHL, and Marc Savard was a bit of a wildcard because of both his size and his skating - he was not viewed as sure thing, though I was particularly high on him going back to his days in Oshawa. Randy Copley was somewhat viewed similarly to Gropp, though his ranking within that system was much higher than Gropp's is now - which is actually an argument illustrating how the two time periods were different.

Jeff Brown was a bust almost immediately after he was drafted and had actually fallen hard in the 1996 draft after being considered as potential top pick just a few years before. By the time he turned pro in 1998, he was sent to the ECHL, which was not seen nearly in the same light that it is today. Burke Henry hadn't turned pro yet either, so all his success was still in the WHL. Manny Malhotra was just starting the process. In 1998, there was no Chytil turning heads in the AHL as its youngest player either. The Rangers would've killed for that.

Compare that to today, where we already have Skjei who made the jump, Graves who is knocking on the door (something Henry never got close to with the Rangers) and a guy like Pionk is also in the fold. Sean Day might be the closest to a 2017/18 comparable to Jeff Brown, and he's arguably fourth on our list of defenseman under the age of 25, as opposed to Brown possibly being second.

Chytil is doing well against pro competition in the AHL and Andersson is doing the same in Sweden.

This is exactly how I remember it. Savard and Dube were not more highly regarded than what we have now. There were some attitude issues with Savard as well.

 

[E-Train]

Harvey was a better role player than Fast.

LaFontaine, a ppg player, had a ton of value as a TDL rental.

LaFontaine and Harvey played in different seasons. Wasn't LaFontaine out for the year by the time the deadline came around? I was a Harvey fan but he wasn't really big enough to play the reckless style he played. Especially in those days.

 

[WeRa]

What an amazing post. It sounds like you were in depression. Interesting comparison with 1998....

But ... this is a bussiness. Rangers are one of the most valuable NHL team. It's impossible to be as bad as Colorado last year. Or like Oilers for the past 10 years. So we are on the way of gradual change. Fans want the Cup. But not only Rangers fans. Play off almost every year is good enough - for business. That's why it's not possible to rebuild the whole team. IMHO.

But Brassard for Ziba or Stepan and Raanta for DeAngelo + Lias ... it sounds like a way to rejuvenate. Next step is Nash for ... what? Picks or somebody younger?

 

[Ori]

I hope for a high draft pick for Nash, @WeRa - hopefully they draft some wingers in 2018 unless we hit with the #1 and get Rasmus Dahlin. If we can`t move Nash for 50 or 70% retained salary. We should resign him for 1 year until we get some talented wingers.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I hope for a high draft pick for Nash, @WeRa - hopefully they draft some wingers in 2018 unless we hit with the #1 and get Rasmus Dahlin. If we can`t move Nash for 50 or 70% retained salary. We should resign him for 1 year until we get some talented wingers.

Can only retain 50% max.

 

[Ori]

ok, I was not aware of that - hopefully we get some value back before he is UFA.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

ok, I was not aware of that - hopefully we get some value back before he is UFA.

Well, his salary and cap-hit at the deadline at 50% retained will be around 900k pro-rated

 

[Beacon]

LaFontaine and Harvey played in different seasons. Wasn't LaFontaine out for the year by the time the deadline came around? I was a Harvey fan but he wasn't really big enough to play the reckless style he played. Especially in those days.

The Rangers traded Skrudland and Keene for Harvey at the TDL in 1998. (Also Eastwood, 30, for Harry York, 23, on that day.) So technically, they did play the same year, though they never played together. A few days before the 1998 TDL, LaFontaine got injured and never played again. But could've been traded before that. It was obvious by Thanksgiving that the team's talk of Cup contention was ridiculous and they will likely not even make the playoffs. Certainly could've traded him around the All Star break.

 

[E-Train]

The Rangers traded Skrudland and Keene for Harvey at the TDL in 1998. (Also Eastwood, 30, for Harry York, 23, on that day.) So technically, they did play the same year, though they never played together. A few days before the 1998 TDL, LaFontaine got injured and never played again. But could've been traded before that. It was obvious by Thanksgiving that the team's talk of Cup contention was ridiculous and they will likely not even make the playoffs. Certainly could've traded him around the All Star break.

I remember that deadline day well. I was pumped up to get Harvey. He was injured as well and didn't debut with the Rangers until the following October, so they didn't play for the Rangers in the same season. I'm just nitpicking, I really like the thread. I never thought I'd hear the names Wes Jarvis and Burke Henry anywhere on this board.

 

[Elliman]

Fantastic and well thought out opening post but I strongly disagree.

 

[True Blue]

And I just re-read this and realized that I even forgot to include Buch and ADA in the list I compiled in response.

So add those two to the equation as well - def. not 1998ish.

Absolutely not 1998. There are pieces on the team, combined with a few newer assets on the farm that make it different. With a purportedly strong draft class, the team could retool fairly quickly. But again, they first need to be honest with themselves about who they are.

 

[Edge]

Harvey started out as a fantastic pickup for us, but his injury issues just derailed his career.

The start of his 1998 season brought back a lot of memories of Graves' age 23 season about seven years prior.

 

[Beacon]

That's how I remember it also. Maybe he would've never scored 52 goals, but could've been a good hardworking player who scores 20-30 goals per season, which is what Graves was in most seasons.

 

[Edge]

That's how I remember it also. Maybe he would've never scored 52 goals, but could've been a good hardworking player who scores 20-30 goals per season, which is what Graves was in most seasons.

That's kind of what I was hoping for - 20-30 goals, grit, leadership and heart.

But man his body just couldn't maintain that kind of game. He was never the same player as he was at the start of that season - anywhere, not just NY.