Why is Nick Shore for Nate Thompson being overlooked?

[aragorn]

I'd rather see Brown playing on the 4th line next season to acclimate himself to the NHL & would probably get more pts than Shore. We already have Smith, Pageau, White, Chlapik & even Paul who could play centre on the 4th line & Brown, Luchuk & Batherson coming. I guess Shore is another stop gap approach this management team seems to love until a prospect usurps him.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It was an overreaction to having a terrible 4th line the year before, kind of like the Burrows and Stalberg deals. Call it the Neil, Kelly & ____________(Insert player here) effect.

 

[BigRig4]

Fwiw Shore has incredible shot impacts if you're into that stuff

 

[solidprospect]

Nick Shore
Position: C • Shoots: Right
6-1, 195lb (185cm, 88kg)
Team: Ottawa Senators
Born: September 26, 1992 (Age: 25-142d) in Denver, Colorado us
Draft: Los Angeles, 3rd round (82nd overall), 2011 NHL Entry
Amateur Teams: Denver
Current salary: $925,000
Current cap hit: $925,000
Pronunciation: \NIHK SHOHR\
Relatives: Brothers Drew Shore, Quentin Shore
Twitter: @nshore23

                                       Scor        Goal     Assi        Shot                                           Ice
Season    Age  Tm  Lg  GP  G  A PTS +/- PIM EV PP SH GW EV PP SH   S  S% TSA  TOI  ATOI  FOW  FOL  FO% HIT BLK TK GV Awards
2014-15    22 LAK NHL  34  1  6   7   0  10  1  0  0  0  5  1  0  33 3.0  57  377 11:05  127  109 53.8  51  14  8         2
2015-16    23 LAK NHL  68  3  7  10 -10  32  3  0  0  1  5  2  0  90 3.3 155  844 12:24  384  357 51.8  97  17 13         7
2016-17    24 LAK NHL  70  6 11  17  -2  20  5  0  1  1 11  0  0  79 7.6 163  895 12:47  362  359 50.2  58  22 11        19
2017-18    25 LAK NHL  49  4 11  15  -4  12  4  0  0  1 11  0  0  52 7.7  98  714 14:34  278  300 48.1  40  15 19        20
Career            NHL 221 14 35  49 -16  74 13  0  1  3 32  3  0 254 5.5 473 2830 12:48 1151 1125 50.6 246  68 51        48

                                                    Cors                   Fenw                       PDO       Zone
Season    Age Team  Lg  GP    TOI   CF   CA  CF% CF% rel   FF   FA  FF% FF% rel oiGF oiSH% oiGA oiSV%  PDO oZS% dZS%
2014-15    22  LAK NHL  34  352.7  306  283 52.0    -3.3  218  200 52.2    -2.6   10   6.7   10  93.0 99.7 59.2 40.8
2015-16    23  LAK NHL  68  752.3  825  519 61.4     7.0  608  386 61.2     7.0   13   3.1   21  92.3 95.4 54.5 45.5
2016-17    24  LAK NHL  70  784.4  734  628 53.9    -0.7  537  483 52.6    -2.1   25   6.8   28  91.0 97.8 57.2 42.8
2017-18    25  LAK NHL  49  616.2  609  568 51.7     1.8  456  419 52.1     3.0   23   7.3   28  90.9 98.2 38.8 61.2
Career             NHL 221 2505.6 2474 1998 55.3     1.7 1819 1488 55.0     1.7   71   5.7   87  91.6 97.3 51.7 48.3

 

[dumbdick]

We traded a ufa we got for free partly for a restricted player with actual value. Rare case of good asset management right there.

 

[Xspyrit]

It's stupidly easy to get good 4th liners.

Yet, most teams don't have good 4th liners.... Something is wrong somewhere...

And yet, for two years in a row, this team has failed to do so.

Started the season with Kelly, Lazar, Neil... but finished with Burrows, Stalberg and Wingels, which are/were pretty good 4th liners.

Pyatt should be a great 4th liner, but like many players, has not been used correctly at times.

 

[DrEasy]

It's nice to have a Shore line when you live in Ottawa.

 

[playasRus]

I mean, to be fair, Ottawa has has abysmal bottom 6ers in the last few seasons so it would be nice if Shore can be another Pageau.

 

[slamigo]

I mean, to be fair, Ottawa has has abysmal bottom 6ers in the last few seasons so it would be nice if Shore can be another Pageau.

Don't you mean Plageau?

 

[Cosmix]

Yet, most teams don't have good 4th liners.... Something is wrong somewhere...



Started the season with Kelly, Lazar, Neil... but finished with Burrows, Stalberg and Wingels, which are/were pretty good 4th liners.

Pyatt should be a great 4th liner, but like many players, has not been used correctly at times.

I like Pyatt’s hustle, speed, and defensive abilities. Offensively he lacks skills. I agree he is a very good 4th liner and PKer. The problem is he is playing on the third line. The team lacks offensive skilled players and the coaching system impedes the offence, particularly for the skilled offensive players. I have noticed in recent games that the players are doing more forechecking in the O zone, so Boucher may be changing his D-first 1-2-2 system which restricts play to 2/3 of the ice surface.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Nick Shore has some offensive upside. Definitely a real plus to this trade. If he were to develop his offensive game at the NHL level to the point where he gets 30-35 pts/82 games he's a huge upgrade on Thompson. That level of production isn't out of the question given his scoring at lower levels. I think the team should try him in a variety of situations down the stretch. Could be a decent 3rd liner.

He is a depth 4th line, in a pinch 3rd line C .. I don't see the offensive upside

 

[danielpalfredsson]

It's overlooked because Nick Shore's value is marginal so it's not really worth considering when weighing the trade.

 

[DJB]

Shore looks like a JAG to me . I see him, hes there but he doesn't really do much.

Looks like a dreadful tweener. Not skilled enough to play top 6 and doesn't really do anything bottom 6 (physical, defense specialist, fight ect ).

Ill be stunned if hes back next year as our 4 C

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Shore looks like a JAG to me . I see him, hes there but he doesn't really do much.

Looks like a dreadful tweener. Not skilled enough to play top 6 and doesn't really do anything bottom 6 (physical, defense specialist, fight ect ).

Ill be stunned if hes back next year as our 4 C

He's pretty marginal ... White and Chlapik are better than him now... except maybe on draws .. He is decent on the draw.

 

[DJB]

Well its likely White and Chlapik figure out faceoffs soon enough.

Maybe Dorion flips Shore

 

[Boud]

We traded a ufa we got for free partly for a restricted player with actual value. Rare case of good asset management right there.

Phaneuf(Retained) and Gaborik were also in that deal.

If anything this was to even things out a bit.

 

[aragorn]

When Ryan gets healthy they could ice a decent forward group.

Hoffman - Duchene - Gaborik
Dzingel - Brassard - Ryan
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paajarvi - Shore - Pyatt/Burrows

However, since they are not making the playoffs they should move several players asap, if possible.

Dumont - 7th rd pick or waive
Burrows - 6th rd pick or buy out
Paajarvi - 5th rd pick or let him walk
Shore - 4th rd pick or don't resign him
Pyatt - 3rd rd pick (trade him while he has value)
Smith - 2nd rd pick (trade him while he has value)
Pageau - 1st rd pick or very good NHL ready prospect/player

To Columbus: Derick Brassard C
To Ottawa: 1st rd pick, Josh Anderson RW

2018 NHL Entry Draft:
- trade anyone above you couldn't trade at the deadline.
- trade Gaborik and/or Anderson, if possible

Summer Deal & July 1:
- re-sign or trade Karlsson, get a 2019 1st rd pick, plus package
- sign Mike Green to 2 yrs @ $4 or $5 mil (if Karlsson is traded)
- sign Cam Ward to 2 yrs @ $3 mil
- sign Evander Kane to 2 yrs @ $4 mil

Hoffman - Duchene - Stone
Kane - White - Ryan (Ryan 2019 deadline or summer deal)
Dzingel - Brown - Anderson
Paul - Chlapik - Gagné

Chabot - Green
Harpur - Ceci
Boroweicki - Jaros/Claesson

Ward - Condon/Hogberg

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

When Ryan gets healthy they could ice a decent forward group.

Hoffman - Duchene - Gaborik
Dzingel - Brassard - Ryan
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paajarvi - Shore - Pyatt/Burrows

However, since they are not making the playoffs they should move several players asap, if possible.

Dumont - 7th rd pick or waive
Burrows - 6th rd pick or buy out
Paajarvi - 5th rd pick or let him walk
Shore - 4th rd pick or don't resign him
Pyatt - 3rd rd pick (trade him while he has value)
Smith - 2nd rd pick (trade him while he has value)
Pageau - 1st rd pick or very good NHL ready prospect/player

To Columbus: Derick Brassard C
To Ottawa: 1st rd pick, Josh Anderson RW

2018 NHL Entry Draft:
- trade anyone above you couldn't trade at the deadline.
- trade Gaborik and/or Anderson, if possible

Summer Deal & July 1:
- re-sign or trade Karlsson, get a 2019 1st rd pick, plus package
- sign Mike Green to 2 yrs @ $4 or $5 mil (if Karlsson is traded)
- sign Cam Ward to 2 yrs @ $3 mil
- sign Evander Kane to 2 yrs @ $4 mil

Hoffman - Duchene - Stone
Kane - White - Ryan (Ryan 2019 deadline or summer deal)
Dzingel - Brown - Anderson
Paul - Chlapik - Gagné

Chabot - Green
Harpur - Ceci
Boroweicki - Jaros/Claesson

Ward - Condon/Hogberg

Dumont has been waived

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

Dumont has been waived

Stevie Y, please reclaim

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Stevie Y, please reclaim

I'd actually be curious how he would do in Belleville compared to some of the other guys down there

 

[bert]

It's stupidly easy to get good 4th liners.

Except for us, we trade 2nd round picks for them. I think Shore has looked good so far, more of a modern day 4th liner, strong posession stats doesnt hurt you defensively.

 

[Agent Zub]

Except for us, we trade 2nd round picks for them. I think Shore has looked good so far, more of a modern day 4th liner, strong posession stats doesnt hurt you defensively.

Yeah, Shore is s breath of fresh air compared to what we've had for the last bit.

And he was basically free. You'd think being s budget we'd look for more Shore types than Burrows / Thompson types.

 

[Cosmix]

When Ryan gets healthy they could ice a decent forward group.

Hoffman - Duchene - Gaborik
Dzingel - Brassard - Ryan
Smith - Pageau - Stone
Paajarvi - Shore - Pyatt/Burrows

However, since they are not making the playoffs they should move several players asap, if possible.

Dumont - 7th rd pick or waive
Burrows - 6th rd pick or buy out
Paajarvi - 5th rd pick or let him walk
Shore - 4th rd pick or don't resign him
Pyatt - 3rd rd pick (trade him while he has value)
Smith - 2nd rd pick (trade him while he has value)
Pageau - 1st rd pick or very good NHL ready prospect/player

To Columbus: Derick Brassard C
To Ottawa: 1st rd pick, Josh Anderson RW

2018 NHL Entry Draft:
- trade anyone above you couldn't trade at the deadline.
- trade Gaborik and/or Anderson, if possible

Summer Deal & July 1:
- re-sign or trade Karlsson, get a 2019 1st rd pick, plus package
- sign Mike Green to 2 yrs @ $4 or $5 mil (if Karlsson is traded)
- sign Cam Ward to 2 yrs @ $3 mil
- sign Evander Kane to 2 yrs @ $4 mil

Hoffman - Duchene - Stone
Kane - White - Ryan (Ryan 2019 deadline or summer deal)
Dzingel - Brown - Anderson
Paul - Chlapik - Gagné

Chabot - Green
Harpur - Ceci
Boroweicki - Jaros/Claesson

Ward - Condon/Hogberg

The team also needs a new coaching staff and a new owner who can identify a good GM instead of extending the contract of the one he did.

 

[Xspyrit]

I like Pyatt’s hustle, speed, and defensive abilities. Offensively he lacks skills. I agree he is a very good 4th liner and PKer. The problem is he is playing on the third line. The team lacks offensive skilled players and the coaching system impedes the offence, particularly for the skilled offensive players. I have noticed in recent games that the players are doing more forechecking in the O zone, so Boucher may be changing his D-first 1-2-2 system which restricts play to 2/3 of the ice surface.

I think this is a myth because like you said, the system impedes the offence. Let's take a look at the staff they started the season with :

(The 1st pace is last year under Boucher and the 2nd pace is the the 2 years prior playing for Boucher)

Turris : 58 pts per 82 games (64 pts per 82 games*)
Stone : 62 pts per 82 games (66 pts per 82 games)
Hoffman : 68 pts per 82 games (56 pts per 82 games)
Ryan : 33 pts per 82 games** (57 pts per 82 games)
Brassard : 39 pts per 82 games (60 pts per 82 games)
MacArthur : injured (53 pts per 82 games***)

Pageau : 33 pts per 82 games (39 pts per 82 games)
Smith : 35 pts per 82 games (36 pts per 82 games****)
Dzingel : 32 pts per 82 games (small sample size)
Burrows : 34 pts per 82 games***** (30 pts per 82 games)
Pyatt : 23 pts per 82 games (playing in Europe)
Thompson : injured (18 pts per 82 games******)

Notes : * Turris : only 1 year because he was vastly affected by an injury in 2015-16
** Ryan : injured plagued season
*** MacArthur : I took 2013-14 & 2014-15 because of injuries
**** Smith : only 1 year because he was mostly injured in 2014-15
***** Burrows : 20 games with Ottawa, 55 games with Vancouver
****** Thompson : only 1 year because he was injured in 2015-16. He was also mostly injured in 2016-17

Based on their recent past, this should have been a very potent attack. Look at what could have been expected based on their 3 years prior this season

Hoffman (~60-70) - Turris (~55-65) - Stone (~60-70)
MacArthur (~40-50) - Brassard (~50-60) - Ryan (~45-55)
Smith (~30-35) - Pageau (~30-35) - Dzingel (~30-35)
Burrows (~25-30) - Thompson (~15-20) - Pyatt (~20-25)

Then they replaced Turris by Duchene who is even better. Stone and Hoffman, the 2 years prior Boucher were playing their 2 first full years in the NHL so it's normal that their game continue growing, same for Dzingel.

I think injuries and coaching is what affected this team the most and prevented them from playing at their full potential.

It's overlooked because Nick Shore's value is marginal so it's not really worth considering when weighing the trade.

Well, considering that Phaneuf and Gaborik are both overpaid vets on their last few years in the NHL, they didn't really have much more value than Shore...

It was basically an overpaid #4 D-man veteran for an overpaid #3rd line RW veteran.

Ottawa retained because Gaborik was way less expensive (in $) and wanted to save money. And because a #4 D-man is the more useful position, to sweeten the pot, the Kings gave up Nick Shore (RFA) and took Thompson contract (33 y/o, 1 year at 1.6 owed then UFA)

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Well, considering that Phaneuf and Gaborik are both overpaid vets on their last few years in the NHL, they didn't really have much more value than Shore...

It was basically an overpaid #4 D-man veteran for an overpaid #3rd line RW veteran.

Ottawa retained because Gaborik was way less expensive (in $) and wanted to save money. And because a #4 D-man is the more useful position, to sweeten the pot, the Kings gave up Nick Shore (RFA) and took Thompson contract (33 y/o, 1 year at 1.6 owed then UFA)

Phaneuf isn't overpaid at the rate LAK got him for. They got him for 5.25M minus not having to incur a Gaborik buyout, it comes out to about only having to add 3M long term to their cap to add Phaneuf.

Nothing you've said has really changed my mind. I don't think Shore is a big enough consideration that he really matters when assessing the trade. If we got a 4th round pick instead of Shore, I wouldn't be sitting here running down the numbers of the trade, trying to figure out the potential pluses and minuses of the deal for Ottawa, and then go "oh yeah but we got a 4th". It wouldn't even matter.