Who's the bigger blunder, Sbisa or Gudbranson?

[Nuckles]

Why would a young playoff team trade a young d-man, who supposedly played great and shut down star players, for a prospect and a draft pick? Hmmm...

If Gudbranson really was the great young d-man that some people try to make him out to be he:
1. wouldn't have been traded for futures
2. would have gotten a moderately better return (probably another 1st round pick)

Teams would have been lining up to acquire him.

 

[VanJack]

Lol....clearly remember Jimbo saying that the price he paid for Gudbranson was "the price you have to pay for a top-four d-man'....but should have known that if the Oilers acquiring a top-four d-man cost them Taylor Hall, then McCann, a high second and a fourth wouldn't nearly be good enough to actually land a top-four guy for VanCity.

But of course that won't prevent the Canucks from paying him as if he actually were a top-four guy....gotta keep up the illusion of acquiring 'foundational players'.

 

[me2]

If you had actually watched that series rather than just stat-watched, you'd know that the Islanders throughout the series actively tried to get Tavares away from that pairing. Given that Gudbranson was only a -2 in that series playing incredibly difficult minutes shows that Tavares managed to do a lot of his damage against other match-ups.

So prorated -28 per 82. Nice.

 

[Breakers]

I'm still shocked Benning didn't push harder for the 10th overall pick.

A player of Kesler's ability should returned that.

 

[KingOfTheES]

Yes, this nitpicking completely changes the argument of my post. You're completely correct: I was wrong in pointing out how Gudbranson played well that series. Actually, given the insight that Gudbranson's offensive game is lacking that I accidentally snipped, I now realize that the rest of the posters in this thread were correct, and Gudbranson was actually terrible. Thank you.

Accidentally?

Just proves your credibility is sorely lacking if you state that was all the quotes from that thread (which it wasn't) on top of the few quotes you cherry picked being edited to fit your narrative.

The confirmation bias is strong with this one.

 

[geebaan]

So prorated -28 per 82. Nice.

exactly


I love posters that post a point, get all these facts disproving their point, only to not answer the point, and come back with another stupid point.

good times

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Yes prorating a -2 in a playoff series over an 82 game schedule as some kind of fact-stating is much stronger than referencing the opinions of those who actually watched him. Which everyone conveniently ignored or deflected. Wow.

Accidentally?

Just proves your credibility is sorely lacking if you state that was all the quotes from that thread (which it wasn't) on top of the few quotes you cherry picked being edited to fit your narrative.

The confirmation bias is strong with this one.

What quotes were missing? Please enlighten us.

 

[me2]

Yes prorating a -2 in a playoff series over an 82 game schedule as some kind of fact-stating is much stronger than referencing the opinions of those who actually watched him. Which everyone conveniently ignored or deflected. Wow.

Must have regressed this year, on track for a prorated -38 and he's not even playing against Tavares just chumps.

 

[Kryten]

Must have regressed this year, on track for a prorated -38 and he's not even playing against Tavares just chumps.

Dont be silly, if he came back tomorrow im sure the worst he would be is -28

 

[F A N]

I couldn't vote because the option "Extending Sbisa to his extension" isn't an option. I don't think trading for Sbisa is a blunder. Benning pretty much asked for what Gillis asked for Kesler. Keep in mind that the Penguins' offer at the deadline was Sutter, 1st round pick, and one of Domoulin / Despres. Obviously, that deal wasn't available by the time Benning was in charge, but deal Benning made for Kesler was comparable.

I don't think trading for Gudbranson is a blunder. (if McCann becomes as good as Baertschi and we don't get much value for Gudbranson then I would think it is a blunder in hindsight). Obviously it hasn't worked out as well as hoped, but to me Gudbranson is still a valuable asset (more valuable than McCann).

 

[TheWanderer]

I couldn't vote because the option "Extending Sbisa to his extension" isn't an option. I don't think trading for Sbisa is a blunder. Benning pretty much asked for what Gillis asked for Kesler. Keep in mind that the Penguins' offer at the deadline was Sutter, 1st round pick, and one of Domoulin / Despres. Obviously, that deal wasn't available by the time Benning was in charge, but deal Benning made for Kesler was comparable.

I don't think trading for Gudbranson is a blunder. (if McCann becomes as good as Baertschi and we don't get much value for Gudbranson then I would think it is a blunder in hindsight). Obviously it hasn't worked out as well as hoped, but to me Gudbranson is still a valuable asset (more valuable than McCann).

Didn't you read the choice? "Trading for, then overpaying Sbisa". That means Sbisa's mind-boggling contract (and the circumstances under which it was given to him) is precisely what that option is. That is what is being weighed against the package we gave up for Gudbranson.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I couldn't vote because the option "Extending Sbisa to his extension" isn't an option. I don't think trading for Sbisa is a blunder. Benning pretty much asked for what Gillis asked for Kesler. Keep in mind that the Penguins' offer at the deadline was Sutter, 1st round pick, and one of Domoulin / Despres. Obviously, that deal wasn't available by the time Benning was in charge, but deal Benning made for Kesler was comparable.

I don't think trading for Gudbranson is a blunder. (if McCann becomes as good as Baertschi and we don't get much value for Gudbranson then I would think it is a blunder in hindsight). Obviously it hasn't worked out as well as hoped, but to me Gudbranson is still a valuable asset (more valuable than McCann).

How was Sbisa as an asset in anyway close to Depres/Dumoulin as assets? "Pretty much asked for what Gillis asked for" is a real stretch when just take into account positions and not player quality.

The Gudbranson trade shows a fundamental lack of understanding on what makes a defender valuable. McCann doesn't need to become anything. That trade was a failure right from the moment it was executed.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Again, getting completely sidetracked from the main point which was that according to people who actually watched the games, Gudbranson had a very strong playoff series, on top of an overall strong season, last year (please no Y2K posts about Corsi which have already been refuted). Posters posting to the contrary based on stat-watching in this thread were simply wrong.

For this new side track, the Panthers were a team on an upward trajectory that was actually looking to win a round last season, not simply scramble into a playoff spot. To compare their situation to the Canucks is ridiculous, considering the very different respective expectations, and the young core Florida has suffered for years to acquire.

Their first season under new management has been a complete disaster, no other way to put it. Ekblad's mega-deal has placed way too much pressure on a young defenceman now trying to play Gudbranson's minutes from last year. Tallon has been reinstated already, given the fiasco of the first couple months of Rowe's leadership. A good coach was fired in embarrassing fashion because he pined for the days when his team wasn't a bunch of cream puffs on skates. The Smith deal looks horrendous. Team in general has looked like they had their heart pulled out of their chests. The talent acquired by Tallon will likely be enough to not have them embarrass themselves too much, but a sad step back for a franchise that looked on the cusp of great things.

Take it from this Panthers fan, Gudbranson was not good in the playoffs and certainly didn't "shutdown" Tavares. Even if you didn't watch the games, a simple stats check will tell you that.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

You have a reputation on the Panthers board for your biased opinion on Gudbranson. Amusing that you follow the player here.

 

[VeteranNetPresence]

Gudbranson is awful and the defense clearly isn't missing his absence which is terrible considering the money he is set to make

 

[GPNuck]

Are we still hating on Sbisa? In my eyes he has turned his career around for the better and i'm perfectly ok with him now.. Gudbranson is just too slow for the NHL

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

You have a reputation on the Panthers board for your biased opinion on Gudbranson. Amusing that you follow the player here.

I don't think it's bias if it's true.

It just blows my mind that people, some Panthers fans included, can watch this guy play and NOT see how poor his game is.

 

[biturbo19]

The Sbisa extension, and it's not even close.



Trading for Sbisa...i think ought to be separated from the conversation as he was for all intents and purposes a "cap sink". He was included in the Kesler deal as a salary offset, part of where we were even able to get that "amazing Bonino deal" in the trade to begin with. A budget team like Anaheim was always going to want to send salary the other way. Sbisa actually had a cash money salary $$$ that was less than his cap hit when acquired. So there's your cap sink.

That Sbisa was at the time still a former highly regarded relatively young defenceman capable of an improbable potential resurgence made him better than a guy like say...Bryan Allen who wasn't even an NHL calibre player that year as a cap offset.



It was the extension offered to Sbisa that made no sense. It just never needed to happen, it made no sense. Right now, he's starting to show that maybe he'd be worth something close to his QO that year. Ambitiously speaking. It's really hard to understand what leverage Sbisa's camp had going into negotiations that summer. They should've had him over a barrel and bargained him down to the QO at most.


The Gudbranson deal on the other hand...i still think is a sound investment in the future. What the actual contract extension ends up looking like will obviously be a big factor in things, but assuming they can get him locked up to a reasonable deal with term...i still don't have any problem at all with the trade. He's a piece i'd have no qualms locking in as my team's #4D long term, and paid appropriately. He can fill those #4 minutes and he brings "intangibles" well beyond that...assuming the contract doesn't massively overpay for those elements.

 

[valkynax]

I'm feeling conflicted and I really can't pick. I am trying to maintain my optimism for Gudbranson but he's not making a case for himself. Hopefully he can be better...maybe???

I also feel slightly warmed with Sbisa for two reasons: one, his play has improved a bit and he's becoming more tolerable (still not worth his contract though) and two, his contract ends after next season, and hopefully we can flip him next TDL for something.

Both situations are kinda ****ed up and kinda not ****ed up, so...I don't know...

 

[VanJack]

I'm feeling conflicted and I really can't pick. I am trying to maintain my optimism for Gudbranson but he's not making a case for himself. Hopefully he can be better...maybe???

I also feel slightly warmed with Sbisa for two reasons: one, his play has improved a bit and he's becoming more tolerable (still not worth his contract though) and two, his contract ends after next season, and hopefully we can flip him next TDL for something.

Both situations are kinda ****ed up and kinda not ****ed up, so...I don't know...

Very interesting to look at that Ryan Kesler trade tree.....basically landed us Sbisa; while other assets in that deal used to acquire Gudbranson and Sutter....and not one of them appears to be a 'foundational' player unfortunately like the guy we traded to the Ducks in the first place.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Very interesting to look at that Ryan Kesler trade tree.....basically landed us Sbisa; while other assets in that deal used to acquire Gudbranson and Sutter....and not one of them appears to be a 'foundational' player unfortunately like the guy we traded to the Ducks in the first place.

Always fun to do the accounting of these.

Kesler was traded with a 3rd round pick for Bonino, Sbisa, a 1st and a 3rd. The first was used to select McCann and the 3rd was traded for Dorsett. Later we traded our 3rd round pick for Andrey Pedan, we traded Forsling to get Clendening and we traded Bieksa to get a 2nd round pick. We then traded Bonino, Clendening and the pick we got for Bieksa in exchange for Sutter and the 3rd round pick we originally traded for Pedan. Meanwhile McCann was packaged with another 2nd rounder in exchange for Gudbranson and a 5th round pick that we used to select Cole Candella.

In summary?

Kesler, Forsling, Bieksa, 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick

for

Dorsett, Sutter, Gudbranson, Pedan, Candella

 

[geebaan]

Always fun to do the accounting of these.

Kesler was traded with a 3rd round pick for Bonino, Sbisa, a 1st and a 3rd. The first was used to select McCann and the 3rd was traded for Dorsett. Later we traded our 3rd round pick for Andrey Pedan, we traded Forsling to get Clendening and we traded Bieksa to get a 2nd round pick. We then traded Bonino, Clendening and the pick we got for Bieksa in exchange for Sutter and the 3rd round pick we originally traded for Pedan. Meanwhile McCann was packaged with another 2nd rounder in exchange for Gudbranson and a 5th round pick that we used to select Cole Candella.

In summary?

Kesler, Forsling, Bieksa, 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick

for

Dorsett, Sutter, Gudbranson, Pedan, Candella

Make it stop please....

 

[dwarf]

Please fire Benning please...

 

[tantalum]

Can't wait for the next poll which will include "the gudbranson extension".....

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Make it stop please....

Trade trees are kinda stupid. Each trade should be judged in a vacuum and any other context management gave for rationale behind it.