Who's the bigger blunder, Sbisa or Gudbranson?

[y2kcanucks]

People forget that Tryamkin was far from a sure thing going into the season. The Canucks couldn't exactly plan to have him in their line-up on a consistent basis.

Imagine the plan some posters are then advocating that management have:

Edler-Stecher
Hamhuis-Tanev
Hutton-Biega

Likely the softest d-core ever assembled in the Western conference. I can imagine how big the eyes of guys like Lucic, Getzlaf, Kesler, Carter would light up if they were down along the boards against those defencemen, all trying to stick-check them and giving them gentle pushes. That group would have been utterly embarrassed.

Not anymore than Gudbranson has been utterly embarrassed.

I like toughness as much as the next guy, but I prefer good hockey players. What good is a tough player if he's constantly skating around his own zone while the other team has the puck and are in the process of putting the puck in the Canucks net?

 

[DL44]

Just because he's younger and has a higher Snarl/60 doesn't mean he's any good. I'm sure you could get anyone's little brother who's 6 to play for the Canucks. zomg his age! Doesn't mean he'll be good.

Umm.. it was a joke. Did you read the post it was referencing?
I was playing along.

 

[Hit the post]

Umm.. it was a joke. Did you read the post it was referencing?
I was playing along.

If you have to explain it, it ain't funny.

 

[me2]

People forget that Tryamkin was far from a sure thing going into the season. The Canucks couldn't exactly plan to have him in their line-up on a consistent basis.

Imagine the plan some posters are then advocating that management have:

Edler-Stecher
Hamhuis-Tanev
Hutton-Biega

Likely the softest d-core ever assembled in the Western conference. I can imagine how big the eyes of guys like Lucic, Getzlaf, Kesler, Carter would light up if they were down along the boards against those defencemen, all trying to stick-check them and giving them gentle pushes. That group would have been utterly embarrassed.

Almost as big as they did when they saw RealGud. Do I skate around him and score or wait for him to get out of position and score. Choices choices. They must have been terribly sad to see Benning pull him for the season with hand "injury".

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Gudbranson was matched up against Tavares in a playoff series and performed admirably.

It's maddening that people are so quick to judge a 24 year old's potential based on a 30 game sample in which he was dealing with an injury and adjusting to a new conference and teammates. He played poorly. That doesn't erase the 2 previous years in which he was steadily improving.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Gudbranson was matched up against Tavares in a playoff series and performed admirably.

It's maddening that people are so quick to judge a 24 year old's potential based on a 30 game sample in which he was dealing with an injury and adjusting to a new conference and teammates. He played poorly. That doesn't erase the 2 previous years in which he was steadily improving.

He performed admirably? Tavares scored 5 goals and 9 points in that 6 game series.

No one is judging a 24 year old's potential based on a 30 game sample size. People are judging his potential based on a 350 game sample size.

 

[Pip]

Gudbranson was matched up against Tavares in a playoff series and performed admirably.

It's maddening that people are so quick to judge a 24 year old's potential based on a 30 game sample in which he was dealing with an injury and adjusting to a new conference and teammates. He played poorly. That doesn't erase the 2 previous years in which he was steadily improving.

Tavares had something like 9 points in 6 games. Either Gudbranson wasn't really matched up with him or he did a **** poor job of shutting him down.

You could argue that Gudbranson was perhaps given too much responsibility and that was the reason for his struggles but to argue that he was anything but terrible in his attempt to shut down Tavares is laughable.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

He performed admirably? Tavares scored 5 goals and 9 points in that 6 game series.

No one is judging a 24 year old's potential based on a 30 game sample size. People are judging his potential based on a 350 game sample size.

If you had actually watched that series rather than just stat-watched, you'd know that the Islanders throughout the series actively tried to get Tavares away from that pairing. Given that Gudbranson was only a -2 in that series playing incredibly difficult minutes shows that Tavares managed to do a lot of his damage against other match-ups.

 

[y2kcanucks]

If you had actually watched that series rather than just stat-watched, you'd know that the Islanders throughout the series actively tried to get Tavares away from that pairing. Given that Gudbranson was only a -2 in that series playing incredibly difficult minutes shows that Tavares managed to do a lot of his damage against other match-ups.

Actually I did watch that series. I saw a Florida team that was awful defensively.

 

[Kryten]

Id say Stecher was more far from a sure thing on D this year due to him being placed 8-9 on our depth to start the year. We could all see how much potential he had in preseason and Y2K was the first one i remember wanting him on the first pair with Edler and JB sent him to the A. And speaking of toughness without Tryamkin at the start of the year; Larsen was given every opportunity to succeed while Biega is one of our toughest D despite his size. Id say only Sbisa and maybe Edler are tougher and meaner than him. So Dim Jim had the chance to make a stronger D at the start of the year but put Larsen in until he got KTFO

 

[me2]

Tavares had something like 9 points in 6 games. Either Gudbranson wasn't really matched up with him or he did a **** poor job of shutting him down.

That's because players are afraid of him, who wants to get monstered in the corners? They just want to get off the ice when he is on and the fastest way off is to score. It is a testament to how damn good he is that people are forced to score a lot.

 

[racerjoe]

He performed admirably? Tavares scored 5 goals and 9 points in that 6 game series.

No one is judging a 24 year old's potential based on a 30 game sample size. People are judging his potential based on a 350 game sample size.

I actually am going to base it entirely off that 6 game playoff stretch, where the guy he was hard matched against put up 9 points, including what was it again? 4 goals.

 

[Black Noise]

If you had actually watched that series rather than just stat-watched, you'd know that the Islanders throughout the series actively tried to get Tavares away from that pairing. Given that Gudbranson was only a -2 in that series playing incredibly difficult minutes shows that Tavares managed to do a lot of his damage against other match-ups.

I'll let this tweet do the talking:

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Gudbranson was matched up against Tavares in a playoff series and performed admirably.

Sorry, I thought you actually watched hockey games. My mistake.

 

[Intoewsables]

Tavares had 9 points in 6 games, but Gudbranson tried real hard and rattled the boards AT LEAST 5 times a game. I know who I'd rather have.

 

[RobertKron]

Gudbranson was matched up against Tavares in a playoff series and performed admirably.

It's maddening that people are so quick to judge a 24 year old's potential based on a 30 game sample in which he was dealing with an injury and adjusting to a new conference and teammates. He played poorly. That doesn't erase the 2 previous years in which he was steadily improving.

...but you want us to judge it based on a 6 game sample, and that's hunky dory.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Sorry, I thought you actually watched hockey games. My mistake.

Sorry, I thought you actually watched hockey games.

My mistake. Gallant played Gudbranson 27 minutes because he was getting destroyed by Tavares. Tavares had 9 points for which Gudbranson was to blame even though somehow Gudbranson only ended up a -2 despite playing incredibly difficult minutes. Incredible logic going on here.

What were Panthers saying after that playoff series? Were they all talking about how bad Gudbranson had been against Tavares? Let's see:

Kuli and Guds were an excellent shutdown pairing. I was already giving up on Kuli during the season, but he stepped up big time in the playoffs.

I actually really liked all our d-pairings this playoffs, as Matheson-Ekblad and Kulikov-Gudbranson is a solid top 4 moving forward

Gudbranson - A- He did a very good job this series.

-Kuli was a top guy for us in playoffs, so proud of him. Guds is the definition of this team moving forward, fits like a glove

That's all the Gudbranson quotes from their playoff post-mortem: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2069409

Hm, did they watch the games?

 

[tantalum]

Hm, did they watch the games?

Well Gudbranson and Kulikov are no longer on the Panthers so someone did.....

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Well Gudbranson and Kulikov are no longer on the Panthers so someone did.....

Yes, Florida's bumbling, franchise-wrecking management team is an absolute beacon of intelligence and hockey savvy.

Getting tiring doing all the work in these threads.

 

[KingOfTheES]

Sorry, I thought you actually watched hockey games.

My mistake. Gallant played Gudbranson 27 minutes because he was getting destroyed by Tavares. Tavares had 9 points for which Gudbranson was to blame even though somehow Gudbranson only ended up a -2 despite playing incredibly difficult minutes. Incredible logic going on here.

What were Panthers saying after that playoff series? Were they all talking about how bad Gudbranson had been against Tavares? Let's see:









That's all the Gudbranson quotes from their playoff post-mortem: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2069409

Hm, did they watch the games?

Very nice snipping of the quotes. Specifically:

Gudbranson - A- He did a very good job this series. His lack of offensive skill will always keep him from taking that next step

Also, wasn't all of them as claimed. A- for effort.

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Very nice snipping of the quotes. Specifically:



Also, wasn't all of them as claimed. A- for effort.

Yes, this nitpicking completely changes the argument of my post. You're completely correct: I was wrong in pointing out how Gudbranson played well that series. Actually, given the insight that Gudbranson's offensive game is lacking that I accidentally snipped, I now realize that the rest of the posters in this thread were correct, and Gudbranson was actually terrible. Thank you.

 

[tantalum]

Yes, Florida's bumbling, franchise-wrecking management team is an absolute beacon of intelligence and hockey savvy.

Getting tiring doing all the work in these threads.

Franchise wrecking? Hmm they still seem to have Ekblad, Huberdeau, Barkov, Trochek, Marschessault, Smith, and Matheson...all under 25 and all could either be in the canucks top 4 D-men or top 6 forwards. Throw in Bjugstad, Petrovic, Pysyk, Malgin, McCann and Sgarbossa as some other under 25 guys.

The franchise wreckers also have more points than the team put together by the super duper foundational building canucks management.

Would you like me to mention how they are $10 mil under the cap right now and have all their young core pieces looked up long term? Let's see where they end up. Such a horrible position they are in as a franchise due to those franchise wreckers

If you have hopes the canucks can make the playoffs then the Panthers are in the exact same position. Getting rid of Gudbranson and Kulikov were not mistakes they made. The Smith and Bjugstad contracts may be mistakes however Smith had two 50 point seasons and a 40 point season under his belt. Bjugstad three straight years of over 40 point pace. We'll see how Demers and Yandle work out.

 

[Ryp37]

I like how using posts from the Panthers message board constitutes an argument

I could pull quotes from here from posters who think Sbisa is good and do the same

 

[Pip]

Yes, Florida's bumbling, franchise-wrecking management team is an absolute beacon of intelligence and hockey savvy.

Getting tiring doing all the work in these threads.

Franchise-wrecking?

Oh dear god you're dramatic

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Again, getting completely sidetracked from the main point which was that according to people who actually watched the games, Gudbranson had a very strong playoff series, on top of an overall strong season, last year (please no Y2K posts about Corsi which have already been refuted). Posters posting to the contrary based on stat-watching in this thread were simply wrong.

For this new side track, the Panthers were a team on an upward trajectory that was actually looking to win a round last season, not simply scramble into a playoff spot. To compare their situation to the Canucks is ridiculous, considering the very different respective expectations, and the young core Florida has suffered for years to acquire.

Their first season under new management has been a complete disaster, no other way to put it. Ekblad's mega-deal has placed way too much pressure on a young defenceman now trying to play Gudbranson's minutes from last year. Tallon has been reinstated already, given the fiasco of the first couple months of Rowe's leadership. A good coach was fired in embarrassing fashion because he pined for the days when his team wasn't a bunch of cream puffs on skates. The Smith deal looks horrendous. Team in general has looked like they had their heart pulled out of their chests. The talent acquired by Tallon will likely be enough to not have them embarrass themselves too much, but a sad step back for a franchise that looked on the cusp of great things.