MJ is retired...has been for many, many years.Raptors won playoff series and only lost to the GOAT of NBA.
If the leafs lost only in the conference finals to Gretzky, then signed prime Chris Pronger, they would be comparable.
MJ is retired...has been for many, many years.Raptors won playoff series and only lost to the GOAT of NBA.
If the leafs lost only in the conference finals to Gretzky, then signed prime Chris Pronger, they would be comparable.
Yeah, that team was very tough and experienced. The problem was the talent level. They basically had 2 starting caliber players: Vince and AD. Everybody else were really good bench players. The team was setup to have McGrady on it after all, he would have made up for the lack of talent had he been there.
Those people are idiots.Looks like you found that answer here.
There were also lots of people questioning the Raptors heart and ability to win until they got Kawhi
I don't think anyone ever questioned Kyle's desire to win. Issues were DeRozan was too ISO dependent, and we didn't have a great 3rd guy until the emergence of Siakam. Plus, Danny Green and Marc Gasol gave us two strong defensive players plus one who is a good spacer and another who is a great low-post passer to help ball movement.Looks like you found that answer here.
There were also lots of people questioning the Raptors heart and ability to win until they got Kawhi
Not knocking our scouting and development, but I wouldn't go that far. We acquired a lot of overachievers through trade, in two cases cases using former lottery picks to get them (Derozan, Poetl and Valanciunas) plus a lottery pick was traded to get Kyle. The only key guy in our starting line-up last year was Siakam who was home-grown. Lowry, Leonard, Green, and Valanciunas were all acquired by trading lottery picks. I will say, key depth from guys like FVV and OG (although out most of the playoffs) were great value. We are also seeing strong emergence of other this year like Boucher.just like to point out, the raptors are in a class of their own in regards to scouting and development. no team in the history of the NBA has won a chip with 0 lottery picks until we did it. if the leafs could find the level of talent the raps have very late in the draft and even undrafted players, we would be in a much better position lol. i mean the raptors practically changed the usage of the whole g league with how we developed coaches and young players there.
Not knocking our scouting and development, but I wouldn't go that far. We acquired a lot of overachievers through trade, in two cases cases using former lottery picks to get them (Derozan, Poetl and Valanciunas) plus a lottery pick was traded to get Kyle. The only key guy in our starting line-up last year was Siakam who was home-grown. Lowry, Leonard, Green, and Valanciunas were all acquired by trading lottery picks. I will say, key depth from guys like FVV and OG (although out most of the playoffs) were great value. We are also seeing strong emergence of other this year like Boucher.
FVV was awful in the playoffs until game 4 against the Bucks. Raptors fans were questioning whether he should’ve seen the court at all during that time.
To your point, yes he was a key player against the GSW and has played well this season.
I agree. But, I think its misleading to point directly to the lack of lottery picks on the team. Given how 4/5ths of the starting line-up was acquired by trading lottery picks.FVV was a key cog in last years championship, he made some HUUGE shots especially against the Bucks and in the Finals, he was undrafted and he's only getting better (11 ppg to 18 ppg). Norm Powell who is also a MIP candidate this year was drafted in the second round has made a huge jump this year (8.6 ppg to 16 ppg). OG a late round pick was a steal and already elite defensively, if he can improve his offensive game then watch out, Terence Davis has shown some flashes and might make an all rookie team and he was undrafted. The Raptors have absolutely one of the best, if not THE best scouting and developmental teams in the NBA.
FVV undrafted and developed by raps 905Not knocking our scouting and development, but I wouldn't go that far. We acquired a lot of overachievers through trade, in two cases cases using former lottery picks to get them (Derozan, Poetl and Valanciunas) plus a lottery pick was traded to get Kyle. The only key guy in our starting line-up last year was Siakam who was home-grown. Lowry, Leonard, Green, and Valanciunas were all acquired by trading lottery picks. I will say, key depth from guys like FVV and OG (although out most of the playoffs) were great value. We are also seeing strong emergence of other this year like Boucher.
You are misremembering the Lowry trade, it was traded with unique protections so it couldn't be too low. It had to be top 14 but we kept it if top 3. Pick ended up being Steven Adams.FVV undrafted and developed by raps 905
siakam late 1st developed by raps 905
OG late 1st
powell 2nd round and developed by raps 905
terence davis undrafted
lowry was a for a protected 1st, which in the nba isnt worth all that much lol
boucher undrafted developed by raps 905
matt thomas undrafted picked from europe
nick nurse d league pickup
the only current starters we paid alot for would be ibaka and gasol, ibaka i never really liked the trade, and gasol was the final touch on a team which was believed could go very deep..which it obviously did lol
not bad for an nba team which has 15 roster spots.
most of the nba has changed the way they use the d league, using the raps model of recent years to develop late picks and undrafted players.
edit: terence davis is a top 10 rookie in a redraft of last year
You are misremembering the Lowry trade, it was traded with unique protections so it couldn't be too low. It had to be top 14 but we kept it if top 3. Pick ended up being Steven Adams.
Look, we obviously are a top development franchise. But, you look at the last great Spurs team, they drafted Ginobili, Green, Leonard and Parker outside the lottery. That accounted for most of their starting line-up. I just think its misleading (and thought it was misleading to really hammer home the non-Lottery picks aspect). We traded a ton of lottery picks to get the key players from Terrence Ross, Poetl, Derozan, the pick we traded to Houston, and Valanciunas. I mean, its a cool thing to tout, but isn't really much more than a surface level comment.
Look, I hold Masai in very high-regard. He did the unthinkable here. It's just I mean, we traded a successful 8th overall pick in the league for a top 5 player in the league which is key. He supplied great depth. But, a lot of these "non-lotto" guy were very established NBAers by the time they arrived. Leonard a top 5 player in the league and former Finals MVP, Marc Gasol an All-NBA guy, Ibaka all-defensive team, etc.im honestly just speaking of the current regime and how the player development and the draft has been the biggest reason for our success. we were much like the leafs under babcock and colangelo.
who the raptors chose in the lottery before masai arrived to me is somewhat immaterial to me when speaking about this current team.
the only lottery pick of his own that he traded was poetl. and what he got for some of the dudes that were here when he arrived was amazing. the grievis vasquez and bargnani trades are prob 2 of the greatest traded in franchise history.
also, not that is really matters, but danny green was drafted by the cavs. but yes he became who he was with the spurs.
but fair about lowry for sure. i mean he wasnt even a masai guy so im not sure whey i included him in my list lol
thats fair, maybe i put too much emphasis on the whole "no lottery picks" angle, when in reality it was a combination of drafting and developing, trades and philosophy. but i think we dont win last year if we dont have those homegrown late picks and undrafted players, and this year while it still has to play out we certainly havent taken any steps back without kawhi and green.Look, I hold Masai in very high-regard. He did the unthinkable here. It's just I mean, we traded a successful 8th overall pick in the league for a top 5 player in the league which is key. He supplied great depth. But, a lot of these "non-lotto" guy were very established NBAers by the time they arrived. Leonard a top 5 player in the league and former Finals MVP, Marc Gasol an All-NBA guy, Ibaka all-defensive team, etc.
True.Look, I hold Masai in very high-regard. He did the unthinkable here. It's just I mean, we traded a successful 8th overall pick in the league for a top 5 player in the league which is key. He supplied great depth. But, a lot of these "non-lotto" guy were very established NBAers by the time they arrived. Leonard a top 5 player in the league and former Finals MVP, Marc Gasol an All-NBA guy, Ibaka all-defensive team, etc.
Yeah, the depth and hitting on those pushed us over the edge and gave us assets. It's a lot of acquiring known commodities for the final push. The three biggest factors I would say in winning last year that weren't present, were the upgrade from Derozan to Kawhi, Siakam breaking out, and Nurse ball-movement coaching (and general coaching). Siakam is clear example of finding a late talent and developing him. FVV and Norm also played important parts at time. This team will be interesting in the playoffs as it has more of those guys, and we lack Kawhi. Benches get reduced in the playoffs. We basically ran an 8 man rotation the whole playoffs, which isn't uncommon for top teams.True.
I guess my use of the lottery reference was more speaking to their ability to identify players that weren’t stars but could effectively fill a role within their team. You bring up a good point, though. The players weren’t lottery picks, but they were acquired for pieces that were.
A lot of other teams also go through the same things and fail continually too.Literally no one. I get it, they won a championship but its not as if they didnt go through a lot of what the Leafs and many other teams go through before winning a championship
Remember when Vince flew to his graduation on the day of Game 7 only to miss the final shot and everyone said he didn't care about winning? I do.
Literally no one. I get it, they won a championship but its not as if they didnt go through a lot of what the Leafs and many other teams go through before winning a championship