Prospect Info: Who is the Blues #3 Prospect - 2023

[542365]

I’m as guilty as anyone of not figuring goalies in putting my draft list together, but to say a #1 goalie is any less important than a top 4 defender or top 6 forward is a mistake. A goaltender that can steal you games is about as valuable a commodity you can have.

I didn’t say less important, I said more easily replaceable. If your goalies go down and you need to replace them, finding an average goalie is not particularly difficult or expensive. If your top 4 Dman goes down, you’re either screwed or paying a huge sum to bring in another one. Outside of the truly elite guys, goalies are incredibly easy to come by. We could get Raanta, UPL, Mrazek, Fleury, Lehner, Francouz, Wedgewood etc. without giving much of anything up. To me, that makes a prospect goalie less valuable to the organization. Still an important position, perhaps the most important, but there are so many average goalies out there.

 

[Celtic Note]

I didn’t say less important, I said more easily replaceable. If your goalies go down and you need to replace them, finding an average goalie is not particularly difficult or expensive. If your top 4 Dman goes down, you’re either screwed or paying a huge sum to bring in another one. Outside of the truly elite guys, goalies are incredibly easy to come by. We could get Raanta, UPL, Mrazek, Fleury, Lehner, Francouz, Wedgewood etc. without giving much of anything up. To me, that makes a prospect goalie less valuable to the organization. Still an important position, perhaps the most important, but there are so many average goalies out there.

I would argue that finding a good goalie is not easy. The Blues literally spent decades trying to find a Cup capable goalie.

 

[Blueston]

I would argue that finding a good goalie is not easy. The Blues literally spent decades trying to find a Cup capable goalie.

Disagree. They had great goalies at times. They lacked cup team around them.

 

[stl76]

• informal
  used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true.
  "I was literally blown away by the response I got"

Oh the sweet, sweet irony.

 

[Celtic Note]

I didn’t say less important, I said more easily replaceable. If your goalies go down and you need to replace them, finding an average goalie is not particularly difficult or expensive. If your top 4 Dman goes down, you’re either screwed or paying a huge sum to bring in another one. Outside of the truly elite guys, goalies are incredibly easy to come by. We could get Raanta, UPL, Mrazek, Fleury, Lehner, Francouz, Wedgewood etc. without giving much of anything up. To me, that makes a prospect goalie less valuable to the organization. Still an important position, perhaps the most important, but there are so many average goalies out there.

How many of those guys are capable of going on a heater or are generally have the baseline for winning a Cup?

Francouz IMO benefited from a team that outclassed the competition and had two franchise players in Mac and Makar. We have neither. On a team like our Cup winning Blues, I don’t see him as being good enough to get the job done.

Raanta, Mrazek, Lehner and Wedgwood haven’t shown capable.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Disagree. They had great goalies at times. They lacked cup team around them.

If you remember, when we had Curtis, Joseph, then you remember having a very good team that could’ve won the cup and a goalie that just couldn’t handle it. He couldn’t handle it in Detroit either.

 

[Blueston]

If you remember, when we had Curtis, Joseph, then you remember having a very good team that could’ve won the cup and a goalie that just couldn’t handle it. He couldn’t handle it in Detroit either.

adin hill and Darcy kuemper just won Cups. Lots of guys can do it if team is good enough.

 

[Majorityof1]

adin hill and Darcy kuemper just won Cups. Lots of guys can do it if team is good enough.

I can point to teams that won with relatively weaker D, or wings. Every team has a weakness somewhere. That is the cap era. You can build strength elsewhere to cover weaknesses. Having Eichel, Stone, Pietrangelo and Theodore covers for Adin Hill. Haning, MAcKinnon, Makar, Landeskog, Rantanen covers for Kuemper.

We don't have those rosters, so we could use a better than average NHL starting goalie. Would I prefer elite talent like Makar, Mackinnon, Eichel? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean having a top 10 goalie on a cost controlled contract isn't preferable to a middle 6 winger.

 

[Blueston]

I can point to teams that won with relatively weaker D, or wings. Every team has a weakness somewhere. That is the cap era. You can build strength elsewhere to cover weaknesses. Having Eichel, Stone, Pietrangelo and Theodore covers for Adin Hill. Haning, MAcKinnon, Makar, Landeskog, Rantanen covers for Kuemper.

We don't have those rosters, so we could use a better than average NHL starting goalie. Would I prefer elite talent like Makar, Mackinnon, Eichel? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean having a top 10 goalie on a cost controlled contract isn't preferable to a middle 6 winger.

Point isn’t that elite goalie is useless. It’s that ordinary goalie is fine and if you have guy who is ordinary they are fairly interchangeable and not that valuable.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Apparently it is. Goalies are valued significantly less in trades. No way we could deal hofer for a 1st. Makes no sense to rank him above 5 different recent 1st rounders.

This is part of what goes into how i personally evaluate and rank prospects. And for that reason i dont even have Hofer top 5.

 

[Majorityof1]

Point isn’t that elite goalie is useless. It’s that ordinary goalie is fine and if you have guy who is ordinary they are fairly interchangeable and not that valuable.

An ordinary goalie is not fine unless you are elite elswehere. We are not. So if Hofer turns into a a better than average starter, that is extremely helpful to us.

 

[Bluesguru]

If you remember, when we had Curtis, Joseph, then you remember having a very good team that could’ve won the cup and a goalie that just couldn’t handle it. He couldn’t handle it in Detroit either.

You’re the first guy I’ve ever seen that has finally echoed my sentiment about Joseph. I’ve said it for a long time, back when he was playing. Loved Curtis, but he really seemed like a goalie that played best as an underdog. His resume proves it, including international play with Team Canada.

 

[Xerloris]

We’d still be without a cup if not for Binny and his game 7 heroics.

I believe people refer to his on ice behavior as antics.

Votes for goalies should not count. They don't even wear normal skates.

 

[Xerloris]

An ordinary goalie is not fine unless you are elite elswehere. We are not. So if Hofer turns into a a better than average starter, that is extremely helpful to us.

"ordinary" goalie. What an absurd thing to say. The difference between what you deem ordinary and "elite" is a few tenths of a % point. IMO where a goalie matters is the playoffs and what they can do there. You all put way way to much importance on the regular season. The regular season should be renamed the preseason.

Point isn’t that elite goalie is useless. It’s that ordinary goalie is fine and if you have guy who is ordinary they are fairly interchangeable and not that valuable.

Some people don't understand goalies.

 

[542365]

How many of those guys are capable of going on a heater or are generally have the baseline for winning a Cup?

Francouz IMO benefited from a team that outclassed the competition and had two franchise players in Mac and Makar. We have neither. On a team like our Cup winning Blues, I don’t see him as being good enough to get the job done.

Raanta, Mrazek, Lehner and Wedgwood haven’t shown capable.

All of them would’ve won the Cup behind the Avs, Bolts, Blues, or Knights. Adin Hill, Darcy Kuemper, and Jordan Binnington hadn’t shown to be capable until they did it. They aren’t world beaters. They’re average goalies. Only 3 of the last 10 Vezina winners have won a Cup, and none of them have done both in the same season. Tim Thomas is the last one in 2011. Teams just don’t need elite goaltending to win. And average goaltending is easy to acquire, so I don’t value them in prospect polls very much.

 

[542365]

I would argue that finding a good goalie is not easy. The Blues literally spent decades trying to find a Cup capable goalie.

They had Cujo and Fuhr and didn’t win a thing. They didn’t win until they dragged up their AHL backup just as the team caught fire.

 

[sfvega]

They had Cujo and Fuhr and didn’t win a thing. They didn’t win until they dragged up their AHL backup just as the team caught fire.

Binner probably has better stats as a Blue than Fuhr did, and Fuhr also notoriously got injured when we had the best team around him.

 

[Bluesguru]

I think our prospect pool is getting deep now. So if Hofer really is worthy of being 3rd on the list, then that’s something to get excited about. Be great if we got something special in goal coming up.

 

[Xerloris]

All of them would’ve won the Cup behind the Avs, Bolts, Blues, or Knights. Adin Hill, Darcy Kuemper, and Jordan Binnington hadn’t shown to be capable until they did it. They aren’t world beaters. They’re average goalies. Only 3 of the last 10 Vezina winners have won a Cup, and none of them have done both in the same season. Tim Thomas is the last one in 2011. Teams just don’t need elite goaltending to win. And average goaltending is easy to acquire, so I don’t value them in prospect polls very much.

I don't think any of those goalies would have won game 7 in Boston cept for Binny obviously.

 

[Celtic Note]

They had Cujo and Fuhr and didn’t win a thing. They didn’t win until they dragged up their AHL backup just as the team caught fire.

Fuhr was injured in the playoffs if I recall correctly.

I will preface this by saying I thoroughly enjoyed CuJo, but he only had one good playoff showing during his tenure.

The biggest thing you have to have is a guy who can withstand the mental rigors of the playoffs. Binnington showed that. Allen, Halak, Turek, Husso, etc., haven’t been able to. I think Hofer might have the mental focus to be able to do that.

 

[Celtic Note]

All of them would’ve won the Cup behind the Avs, Bolts, Blues, or Knights. Adin Hill, Darcy Kuemper, and Jordan Binnington hadn’t shown to be capable until they did it. They aren’t world beaters. They’re average goalies. Only 3 of the last 10 Vezina winners have won a Cup, and none of them have done both in the same season. Tim Thomas is the last one in 2011. Teams just don’t need elite goaltending to win. And average goaltending is easy to acquire, so I don’t value them in prospect polls very much.

I don’t think you can put the Blues in with the Avs and bolts. And the Bolts have one of the absolute best goalies in the NHL.

I would also content that LV had one of the easiest roads to the Cup in a long time. The fact they played a poor Florida team in the final after playing through a poor Western conference.

 

[Xerloris]

Fuhr was injured in the playoffs if I recall correctly.

I will preface this by saying I thoroughly enjoyed CuJo, but he only had one good playoff showing during his tenure.

The biggest thing you have to have is a guy who can withstand the mental rigors of the playoffs. Binnington showed that. Allen, Halak, Turek, Husso, etc., haven’t been able to. I think Hofer might have the mental focus to be able to do that.

You mean intentionally taken out by Kypreos?

I don’t think you can put the Blues in with the Avs and bolts. And the Bolts have one of the absolute best goalies in the NHL.

I would also content that LV had one of the easiest roads to the Cup in a long time. The fact they played a poor Florida team in the final after playing through a poor Western conference.

Bolts goalie didn't look that great last playoffs or the playoffs before TBH. He had 2 great seasons, good for him but let's not pretend being 6'7 didn't compensate for most of his lacking in other areas.

Las Vegas did the equivalent of beating the special class of kids that wears mittens and helmets to school.

 

[Celtic Note]

You mean intentionally taken out by Kypreos?


Bolts goalie didn't look that great last playoffs or the playoffs before TBH. He had 2 great seasons, good for him but let's not pretend being 6'7 didn't compensate for most of his lacking in other areas.

Las Vegas did the equivalent of beating the special class of kids that wears mittens and helmets to school.

Yes. Kypreos that twit.

And the average Jon Casey certainly did not rise to the occasion.

 

[Xerloris]

Yes. Kypreos that twit.

And the average Jon Casey certainly did not rise to the occasion.

I would argue that a very old Jon Casey most definitely did. He took the Wings in a 0-0 tie to double overtime in game7.
and he did that as a standup goaltender!

 

[Blueston]

I would argue that a very old Jon Casey most definitely did. He took the Wings in a 0-0 tie to double overtime in game7.
and he did that as a standup goaltender!

I still blame Gretzky fir turning that puck over.