Prospect Info: Who is the Blues #3 Prospect - 2023

[STL fan in MN]

You really don't like Neighbours eh? I'd say he's the closest to the NHL, considering that he's already established himself as an NHL player. I keep saying it but Jake is gonna impress this year. All the other guys have question marks to me.

I like Neighbours. I see him as a future 3LW who likely won’t look out of place on a 2nd line. I just value Bolduc, Hofer, Dean and Stenberg more. Neighbours’ future may be a little clearer and the futures of Bolduc, Dean and Stenberg a little more fuzzy but even with that factored in, I like their potential that much more than Neighbours’ to rank them higher.

I see the spots of 3-8 to be incredibly close. But someone has to be 7th and 8th. Neighbours comes in 7th for me even though I do value what he brings.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

One thing is apparent in these polls, the Blues have improved the depth and quality of their pool tremendously over the last calendar year. Granted it took a miserable season to accomplish it, but it’s at least encouraging that we have three guys receiving double digit votes at number three and three more guys who were recent first round picks. I have faith that this thing will get turned around reasonably quick.

I also am glad the team didn’t deal any of the firsts to offload Krug. I’d rather just pay him for another year, hope for improved trade value based maybe on better defensive coaching, and have the stable of prospects the team gleaned from this draft. The quality of guys they got at the end of the 1st round makes it worth it.

 

[Robb_K]

I didn't enjoy voting on this one. After Dvorsky and Snuggerud, the next bunch of 5 or 6 ALL have a lot of things to work on that could possibly go either way. Neighbours, Dean, and Hofer, seem to be closer in my estimation, but look to have lower ceilings than Bolduc, Stenberg; and Robertsson and Lindstein are perhaps just behind that group.

Ordinarily, goaltenders take long to develop, and their development being more subject to mental state and makeup, makes it much harder to predict their peak, and career-defining development level. However, I had to go with Hofer for 3rd, because all the forwards have several questions still outstanding, and none of the defencemen are close to passing any of them, at the present time.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I went Bolduc with this pick. A winger with legit 30 (possibly 40?) goal upside is worth more to me then a goalie all day any day, and that's before taking into account the surplus value you get from a winger who develops early into an offensive threat vs. a goalie who's on what's generally considered a consistent, but not accelerated, path to the NHL.

 

[Mike Liut]

I don’t vote for goalies in these polls.

 

[Majorityof1]

I don’t vote for goalies in these polls.

So if we were on the 30th or whatever, and it came down to Susyev and Hofer, you'd vote Susyev? That makes no sense to me. Bote for a guy who probably won't even play an AHl game for our farm team over a guy who might be are starting goalie in a few years.

 

[kimzey59]

A least in theory, I'd agree with making goalies a separate ranking.
We all know goalies are a different beast than the other positions on the ice. Their development has a lot more to do with the mental side of things than with their actual skillset, they typically develop at a much older age than other skaters and it there really isn't all that much that separates the ones who make it and the ones who don't.

The problem comes when you're making a comprehensive list like these polls are supposed to be. You can't just ignore a potential starting goalie because goalies are graded on a different scale. You have to find a way to work them into the mix, and that usually means you're looking for gaps in tiers to slide them in. That doesn't just go for Hofer, it's going to be relevant with Zherenko also. I think we all can agree that Zherenko's in the same general category as guys like Kessel, Buchinger, Burns and Robertsson, but it's going to be really difficult to place him because of the difference in grading scale. I'm really not sure what the fix is beyond creating a separate series of polls, but I'd be open to hearing ideas.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

A GM who is negotiating trades and assembling a roster has GOT to have solid goaltending. He has to figure out have to value that player in acquisition. Its not any different than trying to figure out where to put them in our ranking. Just because a lot of us are bad at forecasting goalies doesn't mean they don't have a place on the list.

 

[Mike Liut]

So if we were on the 30th or whatever, and it came down to Susyev and Hofer, you'd vote Susyev? That makes no sense to me. Bote for a guy who probably won't even play an AHl game for our farm team over a guy who might be are starting goalie in a few years.

I’d rather just leave them off the polls all together.

 

[Majorityof1]

I’d rather just leave them off the polls all together.

Why? Do you not consider them prospects? Would you rather we didn't draft them? We should have used that 4th round pick we used on Hofer to grab Demtrios Koumontzis that calgary grabbed with the pick after Hofer and was playing in the ECHL last year. Definitely a better prospect because he is not a goalie.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Goalies have to be valued on an equal playing field in the draft and also in trades. We can do the same in these polls. It’s really not that hard to value a goalie compared to a forward or d-man IMO.

 

[Mike Liut]

Why? Do you not consider them prospects? Would you rather we didn't draft them? We should have used that 4th round pick we used on Hofer to grab Demtrios Koumontzis that calgary grabbed with the pick after Hofer and was playing in the ECHL last year. Definitely a better prospect because he is not a goalie.

I just view them differently. It’s like trying to compete a QB to a kicker. They’re just different. I’m not trying to minimize their importance, because obviously they are. They just arent skaters.

I just view them differently. It’s like trying to compete a QB to a kicker. They’re just different. I’m not trying to minimize their importance, because obviously they are. They just arent skaters.

Compare, not compete. Typo.

 

[Blueston]

Goalies have to be valued on an equal playing field in the draft and also in trades. We can do the same in these polls. It’s really not that hard to value a goalie compared to a forward or d-man IMO.

Apparently it is. Goalies are valued significantly less in trades. No way we could deal hofer for a 1st. Makes no sense to rank him above 5 different recent 1st rounders.

 

[Majorityof1]

Apparently it is. Goalies are valued significantly less in trades. No way we could deal hofer for a 1st. Makes no sense to rank him above 5 different recent 1st rounders.

Then value them less in the polls if you choose to do so. But to not value them at all. To refuse to vote for them. That is silly.

 

[542365]

What’s more valuable: An average starting goalie or a second line winger? The second line winger by a long shot. Same with a second pairing Dman. Goalies, outside of the truly elite, are a dime a dozen. We could get Raanta from Carolina for like a third if both of our guys went down with long term injuries. Hofer has done everything you could reasonably ask from him to this point, but the problem remains that he’s easily replaceable whereas young, cost controlled skaters are not.

 

[Xerloris]

I don’t vote for goalies in these polls.

Goalies are literally magic beans.

 

[stl76]

Goalies are literally magic beans.

I don't think literally means what you think it means.

 

[Xerloris]

literally

• informal
  used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true.
  "I was literally blown away by the response I got"

 

[Bluesguru]

Zach Dean seems like a sure NHL player IMO. Anybody compared to the qualities of a Doug Gilmour says a lot. But it also seems like I’ll be voting for him a lot cause he’s not winning this round - ha

 

[Robb_K]

Goalies have to be valued on an equal playing field in the draft and also in trades. We can do the same in these polls. It’s really not that hard to value a goalie compared to a forward or d-man IMO.

This is precisely why we need to consider them in our polls, rating them against skaters, because we have to guage their value against skaters in choosing players in the draft and in making trades. If there were two separate drafts, one for skaters, and one for goalies, we'd have two polls. Fans want to know what fellow fans think about the relative values of their favourite team's players, related to those 2 team functions, as well as related to how the team could best handle those players' development paths. Predicting the career value of a goaltender prospect is much more difficult than for a skater. But, we ALL face that problem. GMs have a LOT more to lose in reputation by missing on a prospect than even well-respected forum posters. I want to not only see poll ranks for all players, including goalies, but also detailed explanations of the reasons why the posters rank them where they did, as well as qualms they have in even making a ranking. Many of the posters on this forum have seen much more film and even some live games of these players, and every bit of information and opinion helps fill in the cracks over and above the official scout assessments that get printed for public display.

This is especially true for me over the last few years (and likely going forward, because I'm too busy with family doings to follow all the leagues I used to follow, in both watched games and highlights, and statistics, as well.

 

[Xerloris]

Zach Dean seems like a sure NHL player IMO. Anybody compared to the qualities of a Doug Gilmour says a lot. But it also seems like I’ll be voting for him a lot cause he’s not winning this round - ha

let's hope the comparisons to Gilmore stay on the ice

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I’m as guilty as anyone of not figuring goalies in putting my draft list together, but to say a #1 goalie is any less important than a top 4 defender or top 6 forward is a mistake. A goaltender that can steal you games is about as valuable a commodity you can have.

 

[STL fan in MN]

• informal
  used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true.
  "I was literally blown away by the response I got"

Yeah, but what’s the literal definition of literally?

 

[Mike Liut]

I’m as guilty as anyone of not figuring goalies in putting my draft list together, but to say a #1 goalie is any less important than a top 4 defender or top 6 forward is a mistake. A goaltender that can steal you games is about as valuable a commodity you can have.

We’d still be without a cup if not for Binny and his game 7 heroics.

 

[Blueston]

Then value them less in the polls if you choose to do so. But to not value them at all. To refuse to vote for them. That is silly.

That is what I intend to do. But think it is worth discussing why so many overvalue them here.