Who´s the best Swedish hockey player ever?

[Pavels Dog]

I hate to put it like this but anyone who thinks Lidstrom was actually a better hockey player than Forsberg is simply wrong.

I'd disagree and say anyone who doesn't say Lidstrom here simply did not watch Lidstrom enough.

I absolutely love Forsberg and consider him one of the most talented of all time. But Lidstrom wasn't just consistent, he was consistent as one of the absolute best in the league.

Peter Forsberg, nobody touches his peak. I think Lidstrom had a bit of luck winning all those trophies during an era where the competition wasn't all that strong. Chara sure, but Phaneuf, Zubov and others were top three for some of those years.

Bit surprising that Pronger doesn't have a stronger Norris trophy record though. He really was incredible. Maybe he was more of a playoff beast.

Karlsson will enter this discussion soon.

Eh, Lidstrom played for 20 years and he had tons of amazing d-men to compete with for trophies. Pronger, Niedermayer, Bourqe, Chara etc. Competition was tougher for most of Lidstrom's career than it's been in the last 5 years or so (when simply putting up a lot of points has been enough to win considering how poor the best defensive Ds have been offensively).
On top of that, it probably took the league a bit too long to actually take notice to him and start giving him attention due to his quiet nature and the fact that he wasn't flashy or physical. 7 Norrises could have been 9 or 10 and it wouldn't have been crazy at all.

 

[Jarey Curry]

It's like fire vs water, Foppas flame/career peak was brighter than one can imagine but Lidstrom was steady and consistent like watah

 

[vancityluongo]

Lidstrom was the best defenseman since Bobby Orr.

Saying Forsberg's "peak" was higher means nothing. Might as well claim Sam Gagner had a higher peak than anyone but Sittler because he scored 8 points in a game in a low scoring era. Lidstrom's peak was like a decade long, and it was elite.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Nick Lidstrom

 

[Bustedprospect]

Lidstrom. Even in his twilight-years a Norris winner with some huge playoff performances. Had he been healthy in 09 i think Detroit wins and he pocket another Smythe. But it shows how importent it is to be healthy and be able to play at full capacity.

 

[Regal]

Lidstrom was the best defenseman since Bobby Orr.

Saying Forsberg's "peak" was higher means nothing. Might as well claim Sam Gagner had a higher peak than anyone but Sittler because he scored 8 points in a game in a low scoring era. Lidstrom's peak was like a decade long, and it was elite.

Forsberg was one of the best in the game for the better part of a decade. That's quite a bit different than a fluke game. Their careers overlapped, and while it may have been partly forward/flashy bias, for the entire time Forsberg was in Colorado, the general consensus was that he was the better player.

 

[spiny norman]

How about Anders Hedberg; anyone else think that he would have made the top ten ???

 

[nemo]

Lidstrom.

 

[Ken Wreggets revenge]

Best forward: Forsberg
Best defencman: Lidstrom
Best goalie: Lundqvist

I can't choose between Forsberg and Lidstrom

 

[authentic]

I'd disagree and say anyone who doesn't say Lidstrom here simply did not watch Lidstrom enough.

I absolutely love Forsberg and consider him one of the most talented of all time. But Lidstrom wasn't just consistent, he was consistent as one of the absolute best in the league.


Eh, Lidstrom played for 20 years and he had tons of amazing d-men to compete with for trophies. Pronger, Niedermayer, Bourqe, Chara etc. Competition was tougher for most of Lidstrom's career than it's been in the last 5 years or so (when simply putting up a lot of points has been enough to win considering how poor the best defensive Ds have been offensively).
On top of that, it probably took the league a bit too long to actually take notice to him and start giving him attention due to his quiet nature and the fact that he wasn't flashy or physical. 7 Norrises could have been 9 or 10 and it wouldn't have been crazy at all.

You would be wrong about that then, I watched his entire career and saw most of his playoff games from the late 90s until his retirement.

Forsberg was closer to the best in the league, and actually was the best in the league more often than Lidstrom was, hence Lidstrom's zero Hart nominations. Lidstrom was one of the few players who stayed consistent or even stepped his game up more in the playoffs, but still was clearly not as dominant as Forsberg there (maybe a handful were).

I still strongly believe Peter Forsberg is the most underrated and undervalued player in the modern era.

 

[newfy]

Not a single person in Sweden would rank Lidstrom highest.

Say what you want but most Canadian and American hockey fans probably know Lidstroms game better than most Swedes. Swedes got to watch him once every 4 years in the Olympics vs North Americans watching him play 82 games seasons plus playoffs all the time.

Forsberg at his absolute best may have peaked higher than Lidstrom, but even thats debatable. Lidstrom helped his team win WAY more games than Forsberg ever did. Swedes (and a lot of European fans in general) value pretty plays and flashy skill way more than actual production and contributions. Lidstrom wasnt nearly as flashy as Foppa but he was easily as effective when healthy

 

[authentic]

Lidstrom was the best defenseman since Bobby Orr.

Saying Forsberg's "peak" was higher means nothing. Might as well claim Sam Gagner had a higher peak than anyone but Sittler because he scored 8 points in a game in a low scoring era. Lidstrom's peak was like a decade long, and it was elite.

1995-2005 was Forsberg's peak, a decade long as well, and he was more of a force than Lidstrom was, who was a consistently elite defender but probably not as good as several others at his peak and more than a dozen forwards. The only thing that separates Lidstrom from Forsberg was health and longevity, and not his actual impact on the ice which was close to Forsberg's during his absolute peak (2002-2008) at best. Both were clearly the best two way players from the late 90s to mids 2000s but in most cases the elite center is better than the elite defenseman, and this case is no exception.

 

[authentic]

Say what you want but most Canadian and American hockey fans probably know Lidstroms game better than most Swedes. Swedes got to watch him once every 4 years in the Olympics vs North Americans watching him play 82 games seasons plus playoffs all the time.

Forsberg at his absolute best may have peaked higher than Lidstrom, but even thats debatable. Lidstrom helped his team win WAY more games than Forsberg ever did. Swedes (and a lot of European fans in general) value pretty plays and flashy skill way more than actual production and contributions. Lidstrom wasnt nearly as flashy as Foppa but he was easily as effective when healthy

I truly don't think he was. Put them each on a horrible team and I find it hard to believe Lidstrom makes as much of an impact as Forsberg, or on any team for that matter because he simply wasn't as good of a hockey player.

 

[Apotheosis]

How in the hell are people voting against a top 5 D of all time? Wtf HF. Never change.

 

[thadd]

Won alllll those trophies in a time when there were 28 teams.
2nd best d-man of all time.

 

[thadd]

How in the hell are people voting against a top 5 D of all time? Wtf HF. Never change.

Some Leafs fans feel the need to represent. lol

 

[Korpse]

How in the hell are people voting against a top 5 D of all time? Wtf HF. Never change.

Pretty simple, the question is vague. It's pretty easy to make the argument that Forsberg was the more impactful player when he was able to play, unfortunately he battled injuries for much of his career. Lidstrom on the other hand, missed a handful of games over a 20 season career. There's something to be said for Lidstrom's longevity and his durability but I'm not sure that's relevant to the question.

 

[Apotheosis]

Some Leafs fans feel the need to represent. lol

I'm a Leafs fan so I don't get how that has any pertinence to this thread.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You would be wrong about that then, I watched his entire career and saw most of his playoff games from the late 90s until his retirement.

Forsberg was closer to the best in the league, and actually was the best in the league more often than Lidstrom was, hence Lidstrom's zero Hart nominations. Lidstrom was one of the few players who stayed consistent or even stepped his game up more in the playoffs, but still was clearly not as dominant as Forsberg there (maybe a handful were).

I still strongly believe Peter Forsberg is the most underrated and undervalued player in the modern era.

I also think Forsberg is undervalued, but that happens to guys that have their careers derailed by injuries. Peter had 1 season above 80gp, Lidstrom had 14. Pete had 5 seasons above 70gp, Lidstrom had 19. The difference between Forsberg at his best and Lidstrom at his best just isn't big enough to rank him ahead despite the fact that Lidstrom was at his best for way, way longer and way more often than Foppa was. Nick was dominant defensively and consistently one of the best d-men offensively as well. He was more quiet and less flashy than Forsberg, but no less dominant. He's the only d-man I've ever seen that could make a 2-on-1 against feel as if it's not even a scoring chance. He shut down the legion of doom. He shut down Crosby. He shut down Toews. He shut down Crosby. He shut down Ovechkin. What's dominant if not that?

 

[thadd]

I'm a Leafs fan so I don't get how that has any pertinence to this thread.

It's a reference to being a homer.
Tons of polls get homer votes.
I'm even known to give em on occasion.

 

[b in vancouver]

The Magic Man gets under-rated nowadays. The most talented player on the list. Kent Nilsson is top 10 ppg of all-time. (as is Forsberg) - (plus great seasons in the WHA) - and near to top in reaching 300, 400, 500 point milestones.
but Nilsson did that by only showing up every once in awhile. He didn't work out or seem to try very often and disappeared a lot of games, wasn't focused, etc. Admits himself that he was lazy.

But if you're just looking at skill - I'd pick Nilsson.
when he was on his game he was as good as anyone I've ever seen.

 

[authentic]

How in the hell are people voting against a top 5 D of all time? Wtf HF. Never change.

Forsberg was considered the better player until after he was basically done in the NHL, that's how.

 

[authentic]

Forsberg was one of the best in the game for the better part of a decade. That's quite a bit different than a fluke game. Their careers overlapped, and while it may have been partly forward/flashy bias, for the entire time Forsberg was in Colorado, the general consensus was that he was the better player.

Even halfway through the 2005-06 season before injuries caught up to him for good he was voted the best player in the NHL with a convincing amount of votes over Jagr and Thornton. It truly is revisionist history to say Lidstrom was a better player than Forsberg, it was only those extra few seasons of winning the Norris after Forsberg was done in the NHL that it began to sway in his favour, which is just wrong IMO. If a player wasn't better, he wasn't better, better career only means something if that player was also atleast as good of a hockey player, and for Forsberg's entire career Lidstrom was never considered as good, heck they each had their peaks around 2002...Forsberg was easily better and more dominant and that's not a slight to Lidstrom in any way that's just how good Forsberg was at the time. He also schooled Lidstrom when they went head to head on numerous occasions, far more often than Lidstrom shut him down. These are all facts btw...so the discrepancy in their voting totals here is very disingenous.

 

[Sheppy]

1. Lidstrom
2. Forsberg
3. Lundqvist

 

[ManofSteel55]

I could see an argument for peak Forsberg being the best, but you have to take the entire career into account and Foppa's was shortened. Lidstrom easily.