#whatdidchevydotoday

[Bob E]

Yeah. I don't what to make of that kind of plan.

The team still doesn't have the horses to do anything drastic - they don't have any areas of abundant depth - so pretty much anything they do via trade is going to be a rob Peter, pay Paul kind of thing.

I doubt we see any crazy trades. They seem to be in the midst of a slow and steady build.

If it isn't slow and steady, there are really only a couple options:

1) They are going to suddenly enter win now mode:
To do this they will probably need to unload Scheifele, Trouba and Lowry.

2) They are going to bottom out and start over:
I could understand this, but I wouldn't understand why they wasted two years.

I don't really think there are any other options unless Chevy is going trade roster players for even better roster players. If the plan is to rob a fellow GM blind, he'd better get Feaster on the phone.

Ya, too bad Milbury got canned on the Island. I like many of their young players, too.

I really only see one major trade, this off-season and that's only if they are willing to part with Big Buff, right now. A Burmi move is likely going to be a bit smaller in scale.

If Chevy only adds AHL tweeners to the bottom 6, then he's greasing the skids out the door.

 

[truck]

Ya, too bad Milbury got canned on the Island. I like many of their young players, too.

I really only see one major trade, this off-season and that's only if they are willing to part with Big Buff, right now. A Burmi move is likely going to be a bit smaller in scale.

If Chevy only adds AHL tweeners to the bottom 6, then he's greasing the skids out the door.

Moving Ladd or Wheeler would probably land a hefty return too.

 

[Bob E]

Moving Ladd or Wheeler would probably land a hefty return too.

It would.

The Jets, namely Chevy, should be open to pretty much anything.

 

[garret9]

New favorite:

https://twitter.com/arby_18/status/347530216744296448

 

[TCsmyth]

No, but we're not trying a murder case here. Absence of evidence does increase the probability that the evidence doesn't exist. It certainly doesn't prove that Chevy IS doing something.

I've said it here before...the evidence that does exist isn't very encouraging: 2 years in, his biggest trade acquisitions have been Fehr and Tangradi. Signed Pavelec to a terrible deal. Swung for the fences and struck out with Jokinen. I mean, his first UFA signing was Randy Jones...maybe we should be happy he's not doing anything?

And you Pollyannas who think this is all part of a plan...the plan was to shuffle the bottom 6 deck chairs for 2 years so the team could really make some changes when Hainsey and Antropov became UFAs? Flush 24 months down the drain and THEN start making blockbuster deals? Patience, grasshopper?

I am not "Pollyanna", but I do believe that there was a very specific "plan" to take the couple of years that they were saddled with players and/or contracts - and to see what they have (meaning getting to know the people, deciding on their core, etc.). I have always been of the mindset that this off-season was going to see the team turn over a large percentage (33%?), and that they were signing guys to be stop gaps like Wellwood, Poni, etc - and maybe if Olli performed or Pavs was a little better - they sneak into the playoffs?

I firmly believe that they think there are some good pieces, but that there is/was a culture that was not high-performing - and that they would address that over time. I think it is very difficult to "overhaul" an org overnight (although Bergeron seemed to do pretty well with the culture in Montreal!?)...jury out on Chevy for me - more time needed to form my opinion.

 

[Huffer]

Moving Ladd or Wheeler would probably land a hefty return too.

Unless we are trading a dollar and getting a dollar fifty back, what's the point?

A Buff move can somewhat make sense just from the idea of dealing from a position of strength to augment a weakness.

Unless we are getting massive overpayments and getting better players back then we are using, I don't see how dealing away players in our position of weakness makes us better.

Unless we are doing it to switch to a rebuild mode, but that's something entirely different.

 

[truck]

Unless we are trading a dollar and getting a dollar fifty back, what's the point?

A Buff move can somewhat make sense just from the idea of dealing from a position of strength to augment a weakness.

Unless we are getting massive overpayments and getting better players back then we are using, I don't see how dealing away players in our position of weakness makes us better.

Unless we are doing it to switch to a rebuild mode, but that's something entirely different.

Getting multiple young players back in such a trade would be the goal, no different that if they were to deal Buff.

For the sake of comparison:

Mike Richards was traded for Braydon Schenn and Wayne Simmonds

Jeff Carter was traded for Jacob Voracek and the 8th overall pick


A deal like that could do a ton for the Jets.

FWIW I don't really see defense as position of great strength, so the position of the traded players doesn't really matter to me. The return is all that matters.

 

[Huffer]

So a move towards a rebuild then?

The flyers got back great returns on both of those deals, but none of those pieces were as NHL caliber at the time as the guys they lost.

Plus, there's also the chance that you try to turn Wheeler into your own version of Schenn and Simmonds, and both pieces bust.

You don't see the difference between what happens to our team should we lose Buff, compared to Wheeler positionally speaking?

Getting multiple young players back in such a trade would be the goal, no different that if they were to deal Buff.

For the sake of comparison:

Mike Richards was traded for Braydon Schenn and Wayne Simmonds

Jeff Carter was traded for Jacob Voracek and the 8th overall pick


A deal like that could do a ton for the Jets.

FWIW I don't really see defense as position of great strength, so the position of the traded players doesn't really matter to me. The return is all that matters.

 

[Bob E]

Getting multiple young players back in such a trade would be the goal, no different that if they were to deal Buff.

For the sake of comparison:

Mike Richards was traded for Braydon Schenn and Wayne Simmonds

Jeff Carter was traded for Jacob Voracek and the 8th overall pick


A deal like that could do a ton for the Jets.

FWIW I don't really see defense as position of great strength, so the position of the traded players doesn't really matter to me. The return is all that matters.

Ya Philly did pretty well turning 2 top 6 forwards into 3+ - younger and maybe just as good - top 6 (Couturier may also become a top 6) forwards. If the Jets turned Ladd (or Wheeler) into 2 future legit top 6 forwards and Buff into a top 6 fwd and top 3 dman, that might make a big positive difference in a year or 2.

 

[Grind]

So a move towards a rebuild then?

The flyers got back great returns on both of those deals, but none of those pieces were as NHL caliber at the time as the guys they lost.

Plus, there's also the chance that you try to turn Wheeler into your own version of Schenn and Simmonds, and both pieces bust.

You don't see the difference between what happens to our team should we lose Buff, compared to Wheeler positionally speaking?

My opinion is that if this team doesn't make the playoffs this year, they might as well ship all of Buff, wheeler, ladd, Enstrom, etc out.


We're at a very specific cross roads int hat we've got 7-8 likely high performance players in two age groups, shiefele kane, bogo, trouba on the young end, and Ladd Wheeler Enstrom Buff on the high end. Either We make the playoffs this year, do more then "one and done" and make deep run within the next two years with Ladd, Wheels, Enstrom, Buff, Kane, Bogo, as our "paid" core with high efficiency (ie: production vs caphit) supplementation from Schiefele, trouba, burmi, OR we have to accept that we've missed that window, focus on being able to Pay Schiefel e trouba burmi kane and bogo as the "big guns" and home we get "high efficiency production" from future prospects/picks/trades in 3 years.

I know it seems odd to paint it so "do or die" and i normally wouldn't think the cut off should be that dramatic, but in reality, teams don't go frlom outside to cup final in one season. Usually they make it, then end up in the final 3-4 years later. Since we didn't make it this year, that means we'd be "competing" in 4 + years, at which our entire "core" is over 30+...not a recipe for success IMO.

 

[Huffer]

That could be a valid course of action at some point as well, I'm just saying that the org has to decide to go that way. It's a different strategy to try to build and add to try to win (which is what it "seems" we're trying to do), and to make the organizational decision to pull the cord and rebuild.

My opinion is that if this team doesn't make the playoffs this year, they might as well ship all of Buff, wheeler, ladd, Enstrom, etc out.


We're at a very specific cross roads int hat we've got 7-8 likely high performance players in two age groups, shiefele kane, bogo, trouba on the young end, and Ladd Wheeler Enstrom Buff on the high end. Either We make the playoffs this year, do more then "one and done" and make deep run within the next two years with Ladd, Wheels, Enstrom, Buff, Kane, Bogo, as our "paid" core with high efficiency (ie: production vs caphit) supplementation from Schiefele, trouba, burmi, OR we have to accept that we've missed that window, focus on being able to Pay Schiefel e trouba burmi kane and bogo as the "big guns" and home we get "high efficiency production" from future prospects/picks/trades in 3 years.

I know it seems odd to paint it so "do or die" and i normally wouldn't think the cut off should be that dramatic, but in reality, teams don't go frlom outside to cup final in one season. Usually they make it, then end up in the final 3-4 years later. Since we didn't make it this year, that means we'd be "competing" in 4 + years, at which our entire "core" is over 30+...not a recipe for success IMO.

 

[truck]

So a move towards a rebuild then?

The flyers got back great returns on both of those deals, but none of those pieces were as NHL caliber at the time as the guys they lost.

Plus, there's also the chance that you try to turn Wheeler into your own version of Schenn and Simmonds, and both pieces bust.

You don't see the difference between what happens to our team should we lose Buff, compared to Wheeler positionally speaking?

Moving Wheeler would obviously leave a hole, but Kane is to Ladd what Bogo is to Buff. After that neither position is particularly strong.

If the Jets do move Buff and Hainsey indeed walks, they'd be looking at starting a rookie on the 2nd defensive pair. Highly touted or not, it is a huge gamble.

The Jets really aren't deep anywhere.

As for the gamble in such a trade, of course there is a gamble. Scouts should minimize the gamble though.

Just spittballing.

 

[garret9]

Step 1: trade whole roster for picks
Step 2: callup all of St Johns
Step 3: draft all players who will peak at same time
Step 4: ????
Step 5: profit

 

[GoJetsGo55]

There are some scary thoughts in this thread.

We have a very young team that took a favorable step last year and now we are talking rebuild?

Now we are talking trading Ladd and Wheeler?

Come on guys. Lack of patience killed this team in Atlanta, why are we so quick to follow in their footsteps?

The only move that really makes sense is to trade Buff for a 2nd line RW and a 2nd line LD. Then you hope that Trouba can move into the 2nd line RD spot. If not, then move up Redmond or one of the other D men we have on the cusp of making it.

I thought things were bad when people were pissing and moaning that we didn't sell the farm at the trade deadline but this is just getting ridiculous.

Also, unless Burmi wants $3M+/season, we would be foolish to trade him while his value is so low. He's still a very capable 3rd liner and his offense can really only go up from this point.

 

[Huffer]

I agree on the Ladd/Kane and buff/Bogo thing, but what I was thinking is that the guys after Bogo (Redmond, Postma, Trouba), seem to be in a better position to at least hold their own compared to what we have after Kane.

And what would be left to be our number 1 and 2 right wingers if we dealt wheeler is even scarier.

Moving Wheeler would obviously leave a hole, but Kane is to Ladd what Bogo is to Buff. After that neither position is particularly strong.

If the Jets do move Buff and Hainsey indeed walks, they'd be looking at starting a rookie on the 2nd defensive pair. Highly touted or not, it is a huge gamble.

The Jets really aren't deep anywhere.

As for the gamble in such a trade, of course there is a gamble. Scouts should minimize the gamble though.

Just spittballing.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

My opinion is that if this team doesn't make the playoffs this year, they might as well ship all of Buff, wheeler, ladd, Enstrom, etc out.

Are they discontinuing the NHL after next year?

 

[Huffer]

I agree. I don't think we are anywhere close to having to deal away those guys yet.

There are some scary thoughts in this thread.

We have a very young team that took a favorable step last year and now we are talking rebuild?

Now we are talking trading Ladd and Wheeler?

Come on guys. Lack of patience killed this team in Atlanta, why are we so quick to follow in their footsteps?

The only move that really makes sense is to trade Buff for a 2nd line RW and a 2nd line LD. Then you hope that Trouba can move into the 2nd line RD spot. If not, then move up Redmond or one of the other D men we have on the cusp of making it.

I thought things were bad when people were pissing and moaning that we didn't sell the farm at the trade deadline but this is just getting ridiculous.

Also, unless Burmi wants $3M+/season, we would be foolish to trade him while his value is so low. He's still a very capable 3rd liner and his offense can really only go up from this point.

 

[truck]

My opinion is that if this team doesn't make the playoffs this year, they might as well ship all of Buff, wheeler, ladd, Enstrom, etc out.


We're at a very specific cross roads int hat we've got 7-8 likely high performance players in two age groups, shiefele kane, bogo, trouba on the young end, and Ladd Wheeler Enstrom Buff on the high end. Either We make the playoffs this year, do more then "one and done" and make deep run within the next two years with Ladd, Wheels, Enstrom, Buff, Kane, Bogo, as our "paid" core with high efficiency (ie: production vs caphit) supplementation from Schiefele, trouba, burmi, OR we have to accept that we've missed that window, focus on being able to Pay Schiefel e trouba burmi kane and bogo as the "big guns" and home we get "high efficiency production" from future prospects/picks/trades in 3 years.

I know it seems odd to paint it so "do or die" and i normally wouldn't think the cut off should be that dramatic, but in reality, teams don't go frlom outside to cup final in one season. Usually they make it, then end up in the final 3-4 years later. Since we didn't make it this year, that means we'd be "competing" in 4 + years, at which our entire "core" is over 30+...not a recipe for success IMO.

I tend to agree.

The shelf life of LLW, Buff and Toby as core players is running out. If they prove they can't carry the team into the playoffs, eventually you have to move on.

Keep one or two to compliment the new younger group, but you should move some. If you wait too long you can't maximize value.

Not saying the Jets are at this stage, but that time may come.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

I agree. I don't think we are anywhere close to having to deal away those guys yet.

And why would we? There are 2 paths that I think people are looking at:

1) Making the playoffs ASAP
2) Winning the Stanley Cup ASAP

I know side I am on :p

The only reason I think we should trade Buff is because:

1) His value is high
2) He's playing a position that we are pretty set (maybe?) on and can be used to fill up a few GLARING holes that we have at other positions.

EDIT: I am not saying we trade Buff specifically because his value is high. Points 1 and 2 together are why.

 

[pcanuck]

No Jets rumors .... for weeks .... no tire kicking at all in any major markets. I guess he can't call his old friends in Chitown until the playoffs are over.

Fuelled by patience

 

[Huffer]

I agree that at some point you may have to move those guys (due to age) but I don't think they can be adequately judged until they get a NHL supporting cast to help them.

Would the 1st lines of the hawks and bruins be in the finals if they had our lines 2 to 4 to play with?

I tend to agree.

The shelf life of LLW, Buff and Toby as core players is running out. If they prove they can't carry the team into the playoffs, eventually you have to move on.

Keep one or two to compliment the new younger group, but you should move some. If you wait too long you can't maximize value.

Not saying the Jets are at this stage, but that time may come.

 

[truck]

There are some scary thoughts in this thread.

We have a very young team that took a favorable step last year and now we are talking rebuild?

Now we are talking trading Ladd and Wheeler?

Come on guys. Lack of patience killed this team in Atlanta, why are we so quick to follow in their footsteps?

The only move that really makes sense is to trade Buff for a 2nd line RW and a 2nd line LD. Then you hope that Trouba can move into the 2nd line RD spot. If not, then move up Redmond or one of the other D men we have on the cusp of making it.

I thought things were bad when people were pissing and moaning that we didn't sell the farm at the trade deadline but this is just getting ridiculous.

Also, unless Burmi wants $3M+/season, we would be foolish to trade him while his value is so low. He's still a very capable 3rd liner and his offense can really only go up from this point.

I agree with everything that you said, but...

I am talking long term - if the Jets don't start winning.

Nobody should be safe. Sometimes you have to give to get. It would suck to lose one of those guys, but you gotta do what you gotta do to make the team better.

 

[truck]

I agree that at some point you may have to move those guys (due to age) but I don't think they can be adequately judged until they get a NHL supporting cast to help them.

Would the 1st lines of the hawks and bruins be in the finals if they had our lines 2 to 4 to play with?

If you are asking that you should also ask:

Could they be the 1st line on a very very good team?

If not, what line would they play on?

If you deem them 2nd liners, how long till you can aquire players to play ahead of them?

How old / useful will they be at that point?

There a ton of things to consider.

As of now the Jets have a ton of eggs in the Scheifele basket.

Chevy should always be looking at every scenario.

 

[Grind]

Are they discontinuing the NHL after next year?

I actually agree with your previous sentiment (though i have feeling my post is one of the "scary thoughts").


as for this quote, I hope your just being snarky.


I'm not saying "we have to win or blow it up" but at some point players and cores stop "developing" and just are. The peak window of LLW Enstrom and Buff is right now, they are going to be on the downswing in three years. Meaning Right now is the "optimum use" youll get out of them. We're going to be paying for it regardless if they get us into the playoffs or not.

So you have to be cognizant of timelines and while there's more then one way to skin the cat, No team makes the playoffs then wins the cup the next season. They make it, then they go farther the next year, farther the next year, and win (or even win the previous year). If the jets don't make the playoffs next year, that means when we should be moving into that cup range, it's going to be at minimum 3 more years, meaning LLW Enstrom and buff are all on the downswing but getting paid prime dollar.

Realistically, if the LLW core can't get us to the playoffs this year, then by the time they do, and take us deep enough to compete, were going to have to move some of them to make cap room for Schiefele and Trouba.

that's the unfortunate reality of the situation. Expecting the team to go from outside-to deep in one year (which is literally what would have to happen if we don't make it next year) is a fools errand. And expecting us to be able to keep a core of LLW buff enstrom, Kane, bogo AND Schiefel and Trouba past their first contract is going to be nearly impossible, unless both the young guys dissapoint. Then were in the middle of a completely different problem.

 

[surixon]

I actually agree with your previous sentiment (though i have feeling my post is one of the "scary thoughts").


as for this quote, I hope your just being snarky.


I'm not saying "we have to win or blow it up" but at some point players and cores stop "developing" and just are. The peak window of LLW Enstrom and Buff is right now, they are going to be on the downswing in three years. Meaning Right now is the "optimum use" youll get out of them. We're going to be paying for it regardless if they get us into the playoffs or not.

So you have to be cognizant of timelines and while there's more then one way to skin the cat, No team makes the playoffs then wins the cup the next season. They make it, then they go farther the next year, farther the next year, and win (or even win the previous year). If the jets don't make the playoffs next year, that means when we should be moving into that cup range, it's going to be at minimum 3 more years, meaning LLW Enstrom and buff are all on the downswing but getting paid prime dollar.

Realistically, if the LLW core can't get us to the playoffs this year, then by the time they do, and take us deep enough to compete, were going to have to move some of them to make cap room for Schiefele and Trouba.

that's the unfortunate reality of the situation. Expecting the team to go from outside-to deep in one year (which is literally what would have to happen if we don't make it next year) is a fools errand. And expecting us to be able to keep a core of LLW buff enstrom, Kane, bogo AND Schiefel and Trouba past their first contract is going to be nearly impossible, unless both the young guys dissapoint. Then were in the middle of a completely different problem.

I get what your saying but I disagree somewhat with the notion that LLW Enstrom will be making top dollar at that time. In 5 years time the cap will likely be much higher which should allow us to pay both groups if managed correctly. For instance I don't think Ladd will receive substantially more on his next deal then what he receives now. A guy like Enstrom should also maintain his form into his low to mid thirties. Wheeler and Little I'm not sure on. There are also ways to manage Trouba and Scheifele's second contracts if we need cap space through similar deals as we saw with Bogo and Wheeler.