What would change your assessment of Chevy? [Mod edit: title]

[Samcanadian]

I wanted to start a new thread on this to try to clean up the discussion on Chevy and to try to figure out what it's going to take to get Chevy [doubters] to wipe the slate clean on the past and move forward into the future.

If you were to look at the state of this franchise, taking context completely out of the picture, I think anyone would say that we're in a pretty good spot to succeed:

-Top 3 crop of prospects coming up through the system, including two top 5 goaltending prospects in Hellebuyck and Comrie as well as NCAA-best Kyle Connor (And likely a top 5 pick in this year's draft).

-Tons of talent in our current NHL young core that's looking pretty impressive in Scheifele, Ehlers, Armia, Trouba and Myers, who will likely make up the bulk of this lineup for years to come.

-Proven first line/pairing veterans that are signed for several more years to value contracts in Little, Wheeler and Byfuglien. These guys are all character vets who love the city and fans, and Chevy has been able to keep them in order to mentor and lead our glut of kids coming into town on their first NHL contracts.

-A huge amount of cap space that will allow us to re-sign the aforementioned young talent with little trouble.

-A mutually agreed upon "never say die" attitude in the locker room, regardless of current positioning in the league standings. Watching Wheeler, Lowry, Buff, Scheifele, et al play with as much intensity as they had at the beginning of the season is encouraging (to me, anyway) and shows that the attitude of this locker room has never been better. If you compare it to the tire fires that are happening in Vancouver and other NHL clubs this season, we should consider ourselves lucky.

What I want to know is how long can we watch this team and continue to complain about things that should or shouldn't have happened in years past? Would we be that much closer to a contender right now if we had blown up the team in year 2 rather than this year? I know Chevy has made some mistakes in the past few years, including some bad signings and a few questionable roster moves, but I can't help feel that the state of this franchise is pretty darn healthy and has to give even the most jaded fans some degree of excitement.

Do we honestly believe this team would contend in a quicker time frame if we fire Chevy and bring in a brand new GM to take us to the promised land? Should we continue to judge Chevy on moves he made as a rookie GM, and hang blame on him for some moves he DIDN'T make even though we're judging them solely with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight? (i.e blowing up the team after the first year in Winnipeg...).

What's it going to take for the [doubters] to forget about the past and buckle up for the future? Chevy's likely not going anywhere soon but his get out of jail free cards are gone and everything's on the table now. I say in exchange for forgiving any miscues Chevy has made in the past and accepting the fact that we're stuck with him for now, we should be able to hold him to an absolute zero-tolerance policy from here on out and demand the best product possible from this team.

Does that sound fair?

Click to read more...

 

[ellismate]

I barely understand their complaints. Draft and develop have been the plan from day 1 and they've been doing a great job of it so far

 

[imec]

As a relatively new hockey fan who's still learning the game and the business I recognize my opinion has relatively little value (it's why I lurk more than post) but I have to say I agree. On balance I'd say Chevy's hits outweigh his misses and if he can get goaltending sorted I'd be pretty happy.

 

[Aavco Cup]

To answer the question posed on the title.

For some here it won't happen unless an until he's fired/let go

 

[White Out 403*]

I wish I personally knew blue shakehead so we could coordinate a proper reply to this lol. Im at the airport picking up family but will certainly chime in today.

To answer the. Question posed on the title.

For some here it won't happen unless an unril he's fired/let go

Not entirely unfair or wrong. I think, for me, Chevy has already demonstrated that he's not a capable GM and has relied on scouts to do his heavy lifting.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I wish I personally knew blue shakehead so we could coordinate a proper reply to this lol. Im at the airport picking up family but will certainly chime in today.



Not entirely unfair or wrong. I think, for me, Chevy has already demonstrated that he's not a capable GM and has relied on scouts to do his heavy lifting.

It's clear hat for many the biases are firmly entrenched. Anything that happens from this point forward will just be used to confirm those biases. Even "lucking" into a Stanley Cup win IMO.

BTW I predict he'll be extended before the end of next season

 

[Hunter368]

Hmmm, personally I don't believe I've actually called for Chevy to be fired in 5 years. Certainly I've critized his moves, non moves, bad contracts, on and on. But I don't ever recall me personally ever calling for Chevy to be fired. I've just pointed out how much better off we could of been if he made the right decisions at the right time.....when many here even were calling for these moves to be made.

A) IMO a good GM has vision, foresight, strategic mind, sees the big picture before most others do, agressive while making the odd mistake he's right much more then wrong, decisive, great hockey knowledge, judges character accurately, admits mistakes and quickly fixes them. He achieves impressive or above average results frequently and/or in shorter then expected time frames.

B) An average or below average GM needs hindsight, makes the same mistakes repeatedly, refuses to acknowledge mistakes or to fix them after the fact and is indecisive. He achieves unimpressive or below average results frequently and/or in longer then expected time frames.

IMO Chevy clearly is option B, I can't change my mind about him until he actually starts demonstrating the qualities of option A. When he starts doing that, I'll cheer him from the top of my house. For now though, he's option B IMO and has cost this organization & fans at least three years & lost picks/quality of picks b/c it took him so long to finally come to the decision he has this year......instead of when it should of been done....like many here preached over the years.

To be clear I'm happy where we're at now and our future.....just should of been done years ago.

 

[Samcanadian]

So how long ago? Three years ago? I don't know if any GM would have made that move. This is an example of hindsight being 20/20 and allowign us to heap scorn on Chevy's decision not to blow it up a year after this team arrived. I don't think it was ever plausible back then, and even if some thought we should, it was never a real option for this team imo.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

I wish I personally knew blue shakehead so we could coordinate a proper reply to this lol. Im at the airport picking up family but will certainly chime in today.



Not entirely unfair or wrong. I think, for me, Chevy has already demonstrated that he's not a capable GM and has relied on scouts to do his heavy lifting.

The scouts did his heavy lifting? You mean the scouting staff he doubled in size from the Thrashers days? That one is always one of my favorite criticisms about Chevy. Even if he let's his scouts do the heavy lifting he had the good sense to hire a lot more of them and then trust them when draft day came. Whether it was going off the board with Scheif or Trouba. Or not letting other GMs decisions to balk at super talented players who fell in the draft like Petan or Connor because of size or some other silly reason.

 

[Hunter368]

So how long ago? Three years ago? I don't know if any GM would have made that move. This is an example of hindsight being 20/20 and allowign us to heap scorn on Chevy's decision not to blow it up a year after this team arrived. I don't think it was ever plausible back then, and even if some thought we should, it was never a real option for this team imo.

It's not hindsight, I and others have said the same thing for years. Thrashers were no secret, Chevy had all the time in the world from the point the team was bought till the end of year 1 (even through year 2 up till the TDL). He could of even used years worth of video from the Thrasher days to help if he really wanted to (not that he needed to but just pointing that out). If a GM can't evaluate his players in a 1-1.5 year time period.....he falls into option B. Damn many armchair GM's here had already accurately evaluated the team in that time period.

 

[KCjetsfan]

So how long ago? Three years ago? I don't know if any GM would have made that move. This is an example of hindsight being 20/20 and allowign us to heap scorn on Chevy's decision not to blow it up a year after this team arrived. I don't think it was ever plausible back then, and even if some thought we should, it was never a real option for this team imo.

I'm not completely sold on blowing it up in year 2 as being clearly the right choice but there isn't any reason it couldn't have. If this core was deemed not good enough leading to this years choices, then they should have seen this back then too. It feels like everything up to today was somewhat wasted/lost, overall.

And spending assets last year for mid year acquisitions seems counterproductive to what today's stated plan is.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I think some moves this off season could influence how I feel about him for sure.
I would like him to address the coaching staff first and foremost.
Extending people whose results rank at or near the bottom of the league statistically was very dumb.
Our special teams are a huge part of this years swoon.
Goaltending is also a mess that needs to be cleared up and it's Chevy who needs to fix this not Pomo, will he do the right thing and move on from Pavs.
If we are so enamoured with youth then why not the goal tending tandem ? seriously.
If we are doing the draft and develope all in , then vets like
Stuart and Thorbs need to go.
Some of the youngsters do look promising and some do not .
Chevy has to make decisions over the summer to move us ahead in one direction or another.
If we are going to keep treading water with some of the above mentioned mistakes can we really expect a different result ?
Remember the Oliers have oodles of great young players and at this point nothing to show for it.

 

[Hunter368]

I think some moves this off season could influence how I feel about him for sure.
I would like him to address the coaching staff first and foremost.
Extending people whose results rank at or near the bottom of the league statistically was very dumb.
Our special teams are a huge part of this years swoon.
Goaltending is also a mess that needs to be cleared up and it's Chevy who needs to fix this not Pomo, will he do the right thing and move on from Pavs.
If we are so enamoured with youth then why not the goal tending tandem ? seriously.
If we are doing the draft and develope all in , then vets like
Stuart and Thorbs need to go.
Some of the youngsters do look promising and some do not .
Chevy has to make decisions over the summer to move us ahead in one direction or another.
If we are going to keep treading water with some of the above mentioned mistakes can we really expect a different result ?
Remember the Oliers have oodles of great young players and at this point nothing to show for it.

Tbh I don't expect any moves from Chevy this summer....zero unless forced. IMO he drafts, signs rfa's, no FA's of note, no trades of note, no buy outs, same old same old. Only exception to this is if Trouba demands too much or sits out b/c he won't sign Chevy's best offer or demands trade......then like Chevy's only other two trades (nhl player for nhl player) he's forced to make a move.

 

[White Out 403*]

The scouts did his heavy lifting? You mean the scouting staff he doubled in size from the Thrashers days? That one is always one of my favorite criticisms about Chevy. Even if he let's his scouts do the heavy lifting he had the good sense to hire a lot more of them and then trust them when draft day came. Whether it was going off the board with Scheif or Trouba. Or not letting other GMs decisions to balk at super talented players who fell in the draft like Petan or Connor because of size or some other silly reason.

It's clear hat for many the biases are firmly entrenched. Anything that happens from this point forward will just be used to confirm those biases. Even "lucking" into a Stanley Cup win IMO.

BTW I predict he'll be extended before the end of next season

I'm not obtuse; if the Jets wind up being a perennial powerhouse over the next few seasons obviously his "vision" will have proven to be correct. I don't see that happening though. You can't just draft your way into a great team like a video game. You have to win trades, make good signings, and cut dead weight when you can. So far Chevy has shown that his best skill is to hire a lot of scouts (lol) and let them do the heavy lifting and suggest who to draft.

I think my presence in this thread will be limited... it really feels like this has horse has been beaten long after its death.

 

[Whileee]

The scouts did his heavy lifting? You mean the scouting staff he doubled in size from the Thrashers days? That one is always one of my favorite criticisms about Chevy. Even if he let's his scouts do the heavy lifting he had the good sense to hire a lot more of them and then trust them when draft day came. Whether it was going off the board with Scheif or Trouba. Or not letting other GMs decisions to balk at super talented players who fell in the draft like Petan or Connor because of size or some other silly reason.

Yup. Anyone who thinks Chevy isn't deeply involved in setting the direction of the scouting staff, organizing their approach and actually scouting the top prospects is off base. On the draft floor last year teams were clamoring for the #16 or #17 pick(after other brilliant GMs had let Barzal and Connor slip that far). Edmonton's GM traded his #16 for Griffin Reinhart and a 2nd. Chevy obviously rebuffed an offer without so much as glancing at a scout.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the Jets had a poor drafting record or had traded for poor prospects, detractors would be pinning the blame on him completely (something about where the buck stops).

I think you judge a GM by the overall results of his work. Some think that can already be done with Chevy because of the lack of performance over the first 5 years. I can respect that opinion, but disagree. I could be very wrong, but my opinion is that this franchise is on very solid footing going forward and has achieved that as they said they would - through drafting and developing. Of course they have made mistakes, and will continue to. But when I compare where this roster is 1-40 today compared to 5 years ago, there has been huge improvement.

What puzzles me is how visceral some of the reactions to Chevy (and Maurice) have been. It's come to the point that rational discussions have become very difficult to maintain on these boards.

 

[10Ducky10]

For you people that don't like Chevy, maybe we cold talk Sather into coming here. With all our prospects I am sure he could sign some aging vets to huge contracts.

 

[Hunter368]

I'm not completely sold on blowing it up in year 2 as being clearly the right choice but there isn't any reason it couldn't have. If this core was deemed not good enough leading to this years choices, then they should have seen this back then too. It feels like everything up to today was somewhat wasted/lost, overall.

And spending assets last year for mid year acquisitions seems counterproductive to what today's stated plan is.

One could argue reasonably that it could of been after year 1 or after year two......the same point applies.....should of been done years ago.

Heck I remember many friends and people here (including myself) happy we got a team when finally announced but we're disappointed b/c it was the Thrashers and not the Dogs. Everyone knew the Dogs were a better team then, Thrashers were a worse franchise and lacked talent. In the end we got the Thrashers.....but we would of preferred the Dogs. Point being everyone knew the Thrashers weren't very good (even at the time of the announcement)........but it took us (Chevy) 5 years to determine that?

 

[White Out 403*]

For you people that don't like Chevy, maybe we cold talk Sather into coming here. With all our prospects I am sure he could sign some aging vets to huge contracts.

A strawman, and a false choice in just one sentence. Congrats!

I think you judge a GM by the overall results of his work. Some think that can already be done with Chevy because of the lack of performance over the first 5 years. I can respect that opinion, but disagree. I could be very wrong, but my opinion is that this franchise is on very solid footing going forward and has achieved that as they said they would - through drafting and developing. Of course they have made mistakes, and will continue to. But when I compare where this roster is 1-40 today compared to 5 years ago, there has been huge improvement.

I just dont know how you can square that circle. You're saying that the way to judge a gm is results of his work. We're worse now after 6 off seasons than when we were when chevy took over. All the stocking of the cupboards is just future "maybes". Sigh I don't get it.

 

[Whileee]

I'm not obtuse; if the Jets wind up being a perennial powerhouse over the next few seasons obviously his "vision" will have proven to be correct. I don't see that happening though. You can't just draft your way into a great team like a video game. You have to win trades, make good signings, and cut dead weight when you can. So far Chevy has shown that his best skill is to hire a lot of scouts (lol) and let them do the heavy lifting and suggest who to draft.

I think my presence in this thread will be limited... it really feels like this has horse has been beaten long after its death.

Your viewpoint about the role of the GM in scouting is pretty one-sided. Honestly, if the Jets' drafting had been crappy would you have absolved Chevy of the blame?

Kane/Bogo and Ladd were two of the biggest trades in the NHL in the past 2 years. Win, lose or draw?

Signings? How about Perreault, maybe one of the best UFA signings in the past 2-3 years.

Cut dead weight? Any GM that will trade a very popular captain at age 30 probably knows how to do it.

I know, I know --- Pavs. You can savor the last few games of Pavs as a starter. Now that the Jets have their future goalies ready to go, he'll become an afterthought.

 

[Hunter368]

Yup. Anyone who thinks Chevy isn't deeply involved in setting the direction of the scouting staff, organizing their approach and actually scouting the top prospects is off base. On the draft floor last year teams were clamoring for the #16 or #17 pick(after other brilliant GMs had let Barzal and Connor slip that far). Edmonton's GM traded his #16 for Griffin Reinhart and a 2nd. Chevy obviously rebuffed an offer without so much as glancing at a scout.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the Jets had a poor drafting record or had traded for poor prospects, detractors would be pinning the blame on him completely (something about where the buck stops).

I think you judge a GM by the overall results of his work. Some think that can already be done with Chevy because of the lack of performance over the first 5 years. I can respect that opinion, but disagree. I could be very wrong, but my opinion is that this franchise is on very solid footing going forward and has achieved that as they said they would - through drafting and developing. Of course they have made mistakes, and will continue to. But when I compare where this roster is 1-40 today compared to 5 years ago, there has been huge improvement.

What puzzles me is how visceral some of the reactions to Chevy (and Maurice) have been. It's come to the point that rational discussions have become very difficult to maintain on these boards.

1) I give credit to Chevy for everything he's responsible for and hold him accountable for everything equally. IMO it's yet to be proven by a single person that Chevy has drafted well......or at least how well. Love to see this done.

2) yes we are on solid footing now, but shouldn't have taken a good GM 5 years to get to this point.

3) Rational discussions impossible? I don't believe that in the least, sounds like more of an accuse just b/c someone doesn't agree with you and you can't convince them of your POV your calling them irrational. IMO that's not a fair comment. True there are some (1 or 2) here that I refuse to respond to or converse with.....but not b/c I'm consider them irrational or I'm unwilling to debate with.....they just tend to be very rude.....I don't need that in my life. Whil, I respect your opinion and have debated with you on MANY occasions......we don't always agree.....but that's ok. But I would never call you or posters here irrational.....we just share different opinions often.

 

[White Out 403*]

Your viewpoint about the role of the GM in scouting is pretty one-sided. Honestly, if the Jets' drafting had been crappy would you have absolved Chevy of the blame?

I've stated for years that of the ways to build a team, signing players, trades, and, drafting, the GM is least hands on for drafting. If our drafting was bad I wouldn't blame Chevy that much, its up to the scouts to find the players and make those recommendations. It's their life and full time job.

Kane/Bogo and Ladd were two of the biggest trades in the NHL in the past 2 years. Win, lose or draw?

Kane/Bogosian trade was a win but really depends on how Roslovic turns out. Ladds trade is too early to say. Chevys failure to secure Andrew at a reasonable rate prior to this season forced our hand in trading him. We'll see how Dano and our pick turn out. Until then impossible to judge this trade.

Signings? How about Perreault, maybe one of the best UFA signings in the past 2-3 years.

Stuart, Thorburn, Peluso, and Pavelec say hello.

Cut dead weight? Any GM that will trade a very popular captain at age 30 probably knows how to do it.

Stuart, Thorburn, Pavelec and Peluso all say hello again.

I know, I know --- Pavs. You can savor the last few games of Pavs as a starter. Now that the Jets have their future goalies ready to go, he'll become an afterthought.

Oh yes, watching Ondrej the giant has been very savory for 5 years

 

[Thai jet*]

OP, this franchise has zero playoff wins. Chevy has been an executive in 16 of its 17 years of it's existence, Thrashers/Jets. It will take some winning to get me on board. If you think those 16 years involved in development at the IHL/AHL/NHL levels are not an adequate timeline to have some expectations well then we just will have to disagree.
I for one do not blame him alone. Cheapman has created the shallowest headoffice in the league.

 

[MardyBum]

The franchise is in a far better position now than in 2011.

Future "maybes", are better than the below average scrubs we had in 2011.

 

[Whileee]

A strawman, and a false choice in just one sentence. Congrats!

I just dont know how you can square that circle. You're saying that the way to judge a gm is results of his work. We're worse now after 6 off seasons than when we were when chevy took over. All the stocking of the cupboards is just future "maybes". Sigh I don't get it.

Read my post. I said I can understand if others want to judge Chevy based on the achievements of the hockey team in the first 5 years. I just don't agree, and I've given my explanation many times.

To recap, the very first draftees of the Jets are only now in a position to assume top-line roles on the team. Since I think a contender needed to be built largely on draft picks, how can I judge the effectiveness when they haven't reached a point where they could be a contender?

As I said in my previous post, I am well aware that could be assessing the quality of the Jets roster and prospect pool entirely wrongly, in which case Chevy's tenure would have been a failure. But at this point I think the opposite. I'm not the only one, either. I'm sure you've seen many other commentators praise the Jets for their prospect pool and young roster (recently a colleague of Garret's who works for another team was very complimentary of Petan and the quality of the Jets young forwards).

 

[Skip To My Lou]

I think Chevy has done a fairly decent job with the Jets. I think he has a pretty good idea of what to do, the only problem with him is his loyalty to below average players like Stuart, Pavelec, and Thorburn.

His drafting has been exceptional, he can work a trade fantastically. The Evander Kane deal was an absolute steal for the Jets, and he got a great return for Ladd.

He's been able to lock up the veterans that are key to the team. Wheeler, Little, and Buff are all guys you NEED to have, and he's been able to retain them. I remember everyone was saying Wheeler's deal was too much, but he's proving that he was so incredibly worth that deal and Winnipeg is so lucky to have him.

Chevy has done a great job. Sure, there's still some roughness around the edges, but so far he's done great. I just can't stand listening to his interviews though.