Speculation: What top 4D could Anders Lee return?

[PAZ]

Nice semantics. "I never said he would bust in the NHL, I just posted again and again and again that there was a high chance he'd be terrible! Humongous difference!"

As for your second point, we've owned the Flames 1st rounder during a rough season and never got into a heated argument with them over it.

Barzal and Boeser were neck-and-neck in the Calder race for a good part of the year, yet unlike the Matthews vs. Eichel fights, there was little animosity between us and Canuck fans.

So no, I don't think it's odd that we get into heated arguments when fans like you randomly decide to trash and degrade our players. In fact, I think if someone were to trash and degrade your team's best players, you'd respond the same way. Stop making the decision to attack us if you can't handle a "heated argument" because we're not going around attacking you.

Where did I say he'd be a high chance he'd be terrible? I wasn't sold on him instantly being a 50 point player, he was a top 6 or bust prospect in my eyes. I don't see how that's trashing your players. Honestly i'm pretty sure your fanbase trashed on Duchene + Sakic and his asking price way more than anything we did. Sorry we didn't think Duchene was only worth Hamonic + 1st which didn't fit anything we wanted to do.

 

[72hockey guy]

It's obviously not a perfect 100% comparison. But, that's the first trade that came to mind to answer your question (about when a 40-goal guy was traded coming off a 40, or in Carter's case near 40, goal season).

Jack Johnson wasn't an unproven guy with elite potential at that point anymore. He'd already played 4 full seasons, and was in the midst of his 5th full season. He was about on par with guys like Gardiner or Brodie at that point.

Again, I acknowledge it's not a 100% comparison to the Lee hypothetical in the OP due to other factors. But at the same time, it's a rough ballpark in terms of the kind of return Lee probably would garner.



That's where I think some Islander fans are overrating Lee's value. I don't think it matters how much Columbus wants offense, they'd never trade top pairing studs like Werenski or Jones for Lee. You said it yourself in this thread. Lee's not an elite winger, he's elite at one aspect of the game. To land a Jones or a Werenski, you'd have to be elite, period.

Now just to be clear, I'm not even saying the Isles *should* trade Lee for Gardiner or Brodie or whoever. It might actually be the best course to keep Lee and try and fix the defense another way (maybe use some of the multiple high draft picks). But since Crew created a thread about a hypothetical situation in which Lee *was* dangled to land a defenseman, I think the value would be a lot closer to a Gardiner or Brodie than it would a Jones or Werenski.

i appreciate that sid but still a high first was included, Jack Johnson was himself a top 3 pick,and was considered as highly as Dougie Hamilton at the time, and Carter at the time was a depressed asset as any blue Jaket fan will tell you. do you honestly think that any of those defenders would garner 2 first rounders including a top 3 pick. it was a good effort on your part. truly it is, but none of them come close to that package

 

[LakeLivin]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but has anyone thrown out Lee <----> Faulk as a base for a trade with the Canes? (I know he's a right shot)

 

[leeroggy]

I'm not confused. I understand things like stats, advanced stats, projections, variables, equations, probability ect. Then I also understand opinion and facts. But hey per one 40 goal year at the age of 27 you have an elite player sign him long term. Let see if he can become a 40 goal scorer again

I wonder what percentage of NHL players with at least three years of experience in the history of the League have ever put up a 40-goal season?

You make it sound like it's easy. It's not.

And if he regresses 25% next year that's still a 30-goal scorer.

That's not dog poop.

 

[CREW99AW]

He actually turns 35 this summer. Absolutely the type of player a bad team that isn't close to contending should be mortgaging their future for.

Absolutely ridiculous for a fan with an aging declining star, on one of the worst longterm contracts in nhl to get pissy because other teams will not a) go into caphell acquiring that contract and b) give up top assets for what would basically be a cap dump.

 

[Colt55]

I wonder what percentage of NHL players with at least three years of experience in the history of the League have ever put up a 40-goal season?

You make it sound like it's easy. It's not.

And if he regresses 25% next year that's still a 30-goal scorer.

That's not dog poop.

Brad Boyes

 

[CREW99AW]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but has anyone thrown out Lee <----> Faulk as a base for a trade with the Canes? (I know he's a right shot)

Isles should not be looking for D that is regressing or struggling . They have a lot of young ,inexperienced blueliners pushing for nhl icetime and need someone very steady who can step into the second pairing and take pressure off the kids

 

[bluedevil58]

Faulk for Anders.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Absolutely ridiculous for a fan with an aging declining star, on one of the worst longterm contracts in nhl to get pissy because other teams will not a) go into caphell acquiring that contract and b) give up top assets for what would basically be a cap dump.

Let me state I'm not suggesting the Isles trade Lee for Keith, or even weighing in on the value between Lee and Keith. But I think you're really underrating Keith here.

He's one year removed from being 4th in Norris voting. He had a bad year this year, there's no getting around that. But you're making it sound like he's basically washed up and has been declining for years.

Also, his cap hit isn't even that bad. It's around $5.5 million, which is about what you'd expect a high end #4 or a #3 defenseman to make. Keith's still a top pairing guy, but even if he slips a bit, he's still not overpaid.

Or are you confusing Keith with Seabrook?

 

[Colt55]

I wonder what percentage of NHL players with at least three years of experience in the history of the League have ever put up a 40-goal season?

You make it sound like it's easy. It's not.

And if he regresses 25% next year that's still a 30-goal scorer.

That's not dog poop.

The they should sign him long term lock that playa up. Sounds like NYI would be fools to trade a 40goal scorer. So why is there a value thread. Lock him up LOL. Oh yeah cause deep down all this that you all are arguing about could possbily be true and you want to get more than said player is worth.

 

[CREW99AW]

How old is Chara again? He just had a great season

Stop pretending you have any clue about Keith's game. He had an anomaly of a shooting percentage year and was carrying AHL dmen and a declining Seabrook all year . But if you want to just keep pounding your fist about his age, have at it. Lidstrom and Chara were still top dmen at 35. Keith is too if you can put him back next to a competent NHL defender

Even lidstrom couldn't carry an entire line with hack dmen on the other side of the ice

Why don't you stop pretending Chara is not the rare exception to the rule

Rarely do defensemen in their mid-late 30s continue to play at a top level. It has been noted in the press that Chara is a fitness beast. Even he only got a 1 yr extension.

Isles will not be packaging a 27 yr old 40 goal scorer + top 12 pick for 34 Keith and one of the worst longterm contracts in the nhl. Go start a speculation thread about Keith's trade value and see how low the offers will be.

 

[Jester9881]

The they should sign him long term lock that playa up. Sounds like NYI would be fools to trade a 40goal scorer. So why is there a value thread. Lock him up LOL. Oh yeah cause deep down all this that you all are arguing about could possbily be true and you want to get more than said player is worth.

Pretty soon the Islanders are going to have to lock down Barzal, Beauvillier and Pulock (this season) on top of hopefully bringing back Tavares. Next year they have to make a decision on both Lee and Eberle, one of them will likely have to go and since RW is a black hole for the Islanders and they have plenty of LW with Bellows coming up.... Lee is the most likely casualty. I'd love to be able to keep him..... and everyone for that matter.

 

[Colt55]

Pretty soon the Islanders are going to have to lock down Barzal, Beauvillier and Pulock (this season) on top of hopefully bringing back Tavares. Next year they have to make a decision on both Lee and Eberle, one of them will likely have to go and since RW is a black hole for the Islanders and they have plenty of LW with Bellows coming up.... Lee is the most likely casualty. I'd love to be able to keep him..... and everyone for that matter.

Taveres is gone. If he was going to stick around he would have signed by now

 

[Jester9881]

I guess no one wants to touch the question I asked?

Was Lee just "lucky" the last 163 games? Is that the argument you're making when saying his SH% isn't sustainable?

 

[Jester9881]

Taveres is gone. If he was going to stick around he would have signed by now

Yes.... like Stamkos left

 

[Jester9881]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but has anyone thrown out Lee <----> Faulk as a base for a trade with the Canes? (I know he's a right shot)

Faulk for Anders.

I don't know how other Isles fans feel, but I don't think I could turn that down. Why would Carolina swap out their most tenured (and still young) defenseman for another winger?

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Why don't you stop pretending Chara is not the rare exception to the rule

Rarely do defensemen in their mid-late 30s continue to play at a top level. It has been noted in the press that Chara is a fitness beast. Even he only got a 1 yr extension.

Isles will not be packaging a 27 yr old 40 goal scorer + top 12 pick for 34 Keith and one of the worst longterm contracts in the nhl. Go start a speculation thread about Keith's trade value and see how low the offers will be.

have you ever read a single article about duncan keiths reputation, he is absolutely more of a fitness beast than Chara is and thats why I used him as an example because Keith has a rigorous offseason routine.

this was also evident by Keith playing over 31 min a night en route to the cup in 2015

he also has one of the highest VO2 max scores ever recorded in hockey and his score was compared to Lance Armstrongs so saying Chara is an exception to the rule because he is a fitness animal but keith cant hold up despite being a more renowned fitness addict is foolish to say the least


How 'freakish' Keith became an NHL workhorse - Sportsnet.ca

 

[bluedevil58]

I don't know how other Isles fans feel, but I don't think I could turn that down. Why would Carolina swap out their most tenured (and still young) defenseman for another winger?

Change of scenery might do him well. Plus, we are tired of smurfs. Bigger is gooderer.

 

[CodeE]

Let me state I'm not suggesting the Isles trade Lee for Keith, or even weighing in on the value between Lee and Keith. But I think you're really underrating Keith here.

He's one year removed from being 4th in Norris voting. He had a bad year this year, there's no getting around that. But you're making it sound like he's basically washed up and has been declining for years.

Also, his cap hit isn't even that bad. It's around $5.5 million, which is about what you'd expect a high end #4 or a #3 defenseman to make. Keith's still a top pairing guy, but even if he slips a bit, he's still not overpaid.

Or are you confusing Keith with Seabrook?

Keith had a fantastic career, no doubt. But the Islanders are in no position to be trading a 1st or Lee for any 35-year-old, nevermind both of them together. I'm sure if you made a value of: Duncan Keith trade, many other fanbases wouldn't want to trade high 1st rounders or 1st line wingers for him either.

Names like Faulk, Brodin, Brodie I can live with in a swap for Lee. Jones and Werenski level players are obviously not going to be traded. Looking at teams with a surplus of D, I'd say a Hanifin, Trouba, Dumba, maybe Barrie type of player would be best case scenario.

 

[Jester9881]

Change of scenery might do him well. Plus, we are tired of smurfs. Bigger is gooderer.

As much as it would potentially hurt the Isles top line, I don't think I could turn it down if Faulk was offered for Anders.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Keith had a fantastic career, no doubt. But the Islanders are in no position to be trading a 1st or Lee for any 35-year-old, nevermind both of them together. I'm sure if you made a value of: Duncan Keith trade, many other fanbases wouldn't want to trade high 1st rounders or 1st line wingers for him either.

Names like Faulk, Brodin, Brodie I can live with in a swap for Lee. Jones and Werenski level players are obviously not going to be traded. Looking at teams with a surplus of D, I'd say a Hanifin, Trouba, Dumba, maybe Barrie type of player would be best case scenario.

That's why I specified my response wasn't about Lee for Keith. I just disagreed (strongly) with Crew's breakdown of Keith's ability and how much he's declined.

And I agree about the list of names that are realistic acquisitions. Those are names that have been brought up in this thread, but a few Isles fans were quick with the "no way, not good enough" responses. So it sounded like they expected #1 defensemen in return for Lee which, IMO, is asking too much.

 

[LakeLivin]

I don't know how other Isles fans feel, but I don't think I could turn that down. Why would Carolina swap out their most tenured (and still young) defenseman for another winger?

We're deep on D and terribly short on scoring, especially that of the net-front variety.

 

[PWJunior]

If the Isles trade Lee, I suspect it would have to be a futures based deal due to his pending UFA status. Acquiring a d-man straight up with whatever adds is much harder to orchestrate.

 

[boredmale]

If the Isles trade Lee, I suspect it would have to be a futures based deal due to his pending UFA status. Acquiring a d-man straight up with whatever adds is much harder to orchestrate.

If they wait till July 1 whatever team trades for Lee could try a trade and sign, which would increase Lee's value then just doing a simple trade for 1 year of service. All that being said it can also lead to a bad situation where Lee doesn't want to go to Team X and holds it against the Islanders they were willing to get rid of him.

Now that being said I remember 10 years ago when Heatley was traded for Hossa, I forget which team it was but they basically signed the guy then unexpectedly dumped him to the other team like 5 minutes later

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Lee
Ho-Sang

For

Klefbom
Yamamoto

---

Lee
Ho-Sang
Salo

For

Muzzin
Pearson

?