Speculation: Wayne Simmonds

[Magua]

Damn, that's cold.

I know he's not a good ES player but "addition by subtraction" is a stretch to me. I'm sure you'll have a well-though out explanation, and I will read it, but I can't imagine ever agreeing with calling Wayne Simmonds "addition by subtraction."

If you think someone like NAK could score more than a 4th liner in his middle 6 ES minutes and that Patrick could score close to as much on the PP1 unit.......


Came off a little harsh tbh. I meant addition by subtraction over the next several years, maybe not instantly. But I think he’s certainly REPLACEABLE next season. I just separate Wayne the guy and player of past from the player today and going forward. The former is awesome.

 

[Psuhockey]

For me, I fear a Simmonds extension so trading him this summer gets rid of that possibility. This will be the toughest decision of Hextall’s career so far and I don’t think he will be dispassionate about when it comes time to extend him.

 

[Rebels57]

If you think someone like NAK could score more than a 4th liner in his middle 6 ES minutes and that Patrick could score close to as much on the PP1 unit.......


Came off a little harsh tbh. I meant addition by subtraction over the next several years, maybe not instantly. But I think he’s certainly REPLACEABLE next season. I just separate Wayne the guy and player of past from the player today and going forward. The former is awesome.

That's fair. I understand what you meant now.

If you can replace his ES production from within with a younger cheaper prospect, and also replace his PP production with Patrick, than that is better for the team. I'm not one of those fans that think intangibles, which he has in spades, are of little value though. I'm not sure. I have a feeling for at least the first 2 seasons after we trade Simmer, assuming we do, the majority of the fanbase will regret it (unless it's a Schenn like return).

 

[dats81]

It has been an injury plagued season for Simmonds. He's a tough customer and rarely misses any games but it's night and day between a healthy gritty Simmonds and what we see this year.

He could very well have a strong Giroux like bounce back next season. That may increase his value for the next TDL.

 

[Larry44]

It has been an injury plagued season for Simmonds. He's a tough customer and rarely misses any games but it's night and day between a healthy gritty Simmonds and what we see this year.

He could very well have a strong Giroux like bounce back next season. That may increase his value for the next TDL.

It's possible he could have a bounceback year, even two. Problem is he'll be looking long term + big $$.

 

[Delete99991]

He doesn't fit here anymore

 

[Jtown]

Could be a possibility. I fully expect Chicago to make another fruitless run before they blow it up though.

They are going to have a difficult time blowing it up

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

They are going to have a difficult time blowing it up

They should hire Hakstol. Their average age fits with his coaching style.

 

[Jtown]

Simmonds is a heart and soul player. Such a great player and presents a unique skill set. I would do at most a 3 year deal at 5 million . But on the open market a guy like that would get 4 or 5 years easily .

 

[Jtown]

They should hire Hakstol. Their average age fits with his coaching style.

I don't wish hakstol upon anyone you sick Fuk. How inhumane can you get?

 

[baudib1]

I'm totally down for 3 years $5M per for Wayne.

Trading away core veterans is just not how Cup contenders do business. They go out and sign guys like Simmonds. The Blackhawks went out and got Brad Richards and Versteeg and kept Patrick Sharp until he was 33. The Kings got Richards and Carter. The Pens got Hornqvist and kept Cullen and Kunitz around until their bones creaked.

Once again, acting like you can easily replace PP production from elite PP players is folly. The Flyers dipped from 7th in PPGs and 10th in PP% to 10th and 17th after losing Schenn. Schenn would have probably been worth a few extra goals this year and a couple of wins.

The Flyers are gaining a ton of cap space next year (the cap is expected to go up $4-$5M as well) and there's plenty of room to sign Wayne AND have spots available for all the kids and even a free-agent signing or two. We are also coming close to having a numbers crunch with the prospects; there's not room for all of Allison/Lacz/Twar/Strom/NAK/Martel et al. to play, and some of them are going to end up being good players for other teams.

There's almost no conceivable way that Simmonds would be worse than our bottom line forwards over the next 4-5 years.

We can talk about moving Simmonds when Wade Allison has his first 20-goal season.

 

[Winston Wolf]

I'm totally down for 3 years $5M per for Wayne.

Trading away core veterans is just not how Cup contenders do business. They go out and sign guys like Simmonds. The Blackhawks went out and got Brad Richards and Versteeg and kept Patrick Sharp until he was 33. The Kings got Richards and Carter. The Pens got Hornqvist and kept Cullen and Kunitz around until their bones creaked.

Once again, acting like you can easily replace PP production from elite PP players is folly. The Flyers dipped from 7th in PPGs and 10th in PP% to 10th and 17th after losing Schenn. Schenn would have probably been worth a few extra goals this year and a couple of wins.

The Flyers are gaining a ton of cap space next year (the cap is expected to go up $4-$5M as well) and there's plenty of room to sign Wayne AND have spots available for all the kids and even a free-agent signing or two. We are also coming close to having a numbers crunch with the prospects; there's not room for all of Allison/Lacz/Twar/Strom/NAK/Martel et al. to play, and some of them are going to end up being good players for other teams.

There's almost no conceivable way that Simmonds would be worse than our bottom line forwards over the next 4-5 years.

We can talk about moving Simmonds when Wade Allison has his first 20-goal season.

You might be down for 3 years at $5M, but he's going to get $7M for 6-7 years. Still down with that? If the Flyers sign him for that, he'll be their Lucic, Backes, Kesler, Oshie, etc. contract. Not one of the examples you cited are remotely similar to Simmonds' situation. Nolan Patrick is already a better PP player than Simmonds. The gap between them will continue to widen. If Simmonds does get bumped from PP 1, how much is a poor even strength scorer that doesn't kill penalties worth?

 

[baudib1]

You might be down for 3 years at $5M, but he's going to get $7M for 6-7 years. Still down with that? If the Flyers sign him for that, he'll be their Lucic, Backes, Kesler, Oshie, etc. contract. Not one of the examples you cited are remotely similar to Simmonds' situation. Nolan Patrick is already a better PP player than Simmonds. The gap between them will continue to widen. If Simmonds does get bumped from PP 1, how much is a poor even strength scorer that doesn't kill penalties worth?

Simmonds G/60 on PP is 10.3, which is 2nd highest on the team. Patrick's is 3.9. Granted, Patrick doesn't play with the first unit much, but if he was better than one of the best PP forwards in the league, PP2 wouldn't suck so bad.

(Additionally, Simmonds is allowing 7.1 G/60 on the PK, which is one of the better figures among forwards on the team. Couturier is at 9.0, for example. This isn't a one-year aberration, he better than any forward besides Read last year at 5.8).

Furthermore, Simmonds plays a different position/role on the PP than Patrick, one that he is the best in the world at filling, and vitally important on a team that relies so much on Ghost blasting shots from the point.

I'm not convinced Wayne will demand 6/$6 to stay.

If Kunitz and Hornqvist aren't similar to Simmonds, then who is? Who are the Cup winners who, at the beginning of their ascension, went and dumped a core veteran?

 

[AdamParrot]

Are you conparable Simmer from 1st unit with Patrick from 2nd unit? WTF? Comparable Patrick just he was in 1st unit. Stupid...

Simmer needs to go. Useless player, no hockey IQ, very bad in D-zone.

He is going to be next Lucic, Backes, Ladd, Oshie... No one want these players type in team when they have about 30yrs already.

 

[Winston Wolf]

Simmonds G/60 on PP is 10.3, which is 2nd highest on the team. Patrick's is 3.9. Granted, Patrick doesn't play with the first unit much, but if he was better than one of the best PP forwards in the league, PP2 wouldn't suck so bad.

Furthermore, Simmonds plays a different position/role on the PP than Patrick, one that he is the best in the world at filling, and vitally important on a team that relies so much on Ghost blasting shots from the point.

I'm not convinced Wayne will demand 6/$6 to stay.

If Kunitz and Hornqvist aren't similar to Simmonds, then who is? Who are the Cup winners who, at the beginning of their ascension, went and dumped a core veteran?

Patrick fulfilled the same role as Simmonds when Simmonds was out and gave them an extra option for a pass in the corner, as Patrick can handle the puck and make plays in tight with a much greater frequency than Simmonds can. The 2nd unit is a mess and has been a mess, you can't put that on Patrick.

The Penguins traded Neal for Hornqvist. They are both about the same age, so it wasn't like they added a veteran there anyways. Plus, Hornqvist was signed for 4 more years at $4.25M. Simmonds isn't comparable because they traded for Hornqvist when he was 27 and signed for 4 years at a cheap rate. Simmonds will be 31 when he signs and is going to get much bigger money. They controlled Hornqvist from 27-31, Simmonds' contract will be 31-37/38. Massive difference. Chris Kunitz under performed in Anaheim and was traded for a cap dump in Ryan Whitney. Even then, Kunitz was still 2 years younger than Simmonds will be when he signs and he was signed for a pretty reasonable contract in money and length. Simmonds' contract will be big in money and length. That's why it's not comparable.

He will be more comparable to the guys I listed in the post before. I like Simmonds a lot, but the potential downsides are just too great. Those contracts I listed are anchors and will severely hamper those teams going forward. The Flyers don't need a contract like that.

 

[Jtown]

Are you conparable Simmer from 1st unit with Patrick from 2nd unit? WTF? Comparable Patrick just he was in 1st unit. Stupid...

Simmer needs to go. Useless player, no hockey IQ, very bad in D-zone.

He is going to be next Lucic, Backes, Ladd, Oshie... No one want these players type in team when they have about 30yrs already.

this is a bit over the top. Simmer is frustrating because if he had better hands he would be able to do so much more. He brings a ton to the table, and quite frankly a lot of the things he brings this team lacks. This flyers team is not physical or very tough and that is with Simmer who is our most physical and toughest guy.

He could easily get Oshie money. With that being said, i hope we are not the team to give him that contract. If we are to part with him, now is the time to do so.

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

I don't wish hakstol upon anyone you sick Fuk. How inhumane can you get?

Is that you Travis?

 

[Psuhockey]

I'm not convinced Wayne will demand 6/$6 to stay.

He might not get 6 years but he won’t be taking a home town discount either. This is his last chance for a big contact for the rest of his career. He isn’t going to waste that chance and neither would anyone here.

Even at 4 years a big contract is going to hurt the Flyers. Patrick’s contract is up in 2. Giroux in 4. Couturier in 4. Frost’s elc will be up before that. Plus Provorov, Sanheim and Myers will all be on their 2nd contracts. You can’t waste big money on role players.

 

[VladDrag]

He might not get 6 years but he won’t be taking a home town discount either. This is his last chance for a big contact for the rest of his career. He isn’t going to waste that chance and neither would anyone here.

Even at 4 years a big contract is going to hurt the Flyers. Patrick’s contract is up in 2. Giroux in 4. Couturier in 4. Frost’s elc will be up before that. Plus Provorov, Sanheim and Myers will all be on their 2nd contracts. You can’t waste big money on role players.

Also -- He's been massively underpaid for the last 3 or 4 years. He's going to look to make some of that money back, I would imagine.

 

[FlyTimmo]

We'll see how the next season goes for him, but there have been plenty of bad deals handed out to guys that play a similar style to Simmonds and a couple have turned into disasters. Unless Simmonds scores +30 next year, I'd be surprised if he got more than 6AAV. 5AAV for 5 years seems very possible. I don't want any part of that though.

 

[VladDrag]

Also, I think it's a bit early to definitively say that Patrick is as good as Simmonds on the PP right now. I'm not saying he won't be, and maybe even as soon as next season he will be, but Simmonds has been a top powerplay scorer for the last few years, and he still has 17 PP points in 70 games.

 

[TheKingPin]

We'll see how the next season goes for him, but there have been plenty of bad deals handed out to guys that play a similar style to Simmonds and a couple have turned into disasters. Unless Simmonds scores +30 next year, I'd be surprised if he got more than 6AAV. 5AAV for 5 years seems very possible. I don't want any part of that though.

I think he scored 30 and gets about 7 mill offers. Can’t be here. If he signs 5 mill he could stay but that’s a big if and he should cash in after getting under paid all these years.

 

[AdamParrot]

Also, I think it's a bit early to definitively say that Patrick is as good as Simmonds on the PP right now. I'm not saying he won't be, and maybe even as soon as next season he will be, but Simmonds has been a top powerplay scorer for the last few years, and he still has 17 PP points in 70 games.

It's f***ing awful when Giroux, Voracek and Ghost have over 30 PP points.

Patrick was in 1st unit for about 7 games and scored 3 goals. What do you need more to know that Patrick is already better player than Simmonds in ice hockey.

 

[Psuhockey]

I think he scored 30 and gets about 7 mill offers. Can’t be here. If he signs 5 mill he could stay but that’s a big if and he should cash in after getting under paid all these years.

I want him out this summer so you don’t have a Hartnell situation where he puts up ridiculous numbers and Hextall is too tempted to resign him. Hartnell was resigned after scoring 37 goals, although he still had one year left on his deal at the time.

 

[AdamParrot]

Simmonds for 5M would be okay? WHAT THE f***?
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

I and you don't want this type player with this contract! NO!

OH MY GOD, is so hard to look at contracts of Lucic, Oshie, Ladd, Backes, Eriksson, (Hörnqvist is already loading) etc.? Is it so HARD?