Value of: Wayne Simmonds or Boone Jenner to the Leafs

[Starat327]

o

Look what you made me do.

I Mean, yours doesnt even make sense(provorov wasnt a top 5 , Marner isnt even close to the value of Provorov, while it could easily be argued that Simmonds > JVR, and theres literally no argument to be made that Provorov is struggling, whil you could argue Marner is - but i wouldnt) but yeah, sure.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Simmonds is more than a rental, but yeah, point taken.

It's be at least Kapanen and 1st as the ask from our end.

Does Simmonds exclusively play RW?

If it was Kapanen and a 1st, I think that could actually be of interest if if freed JVR up for trade. I think we'd be looking at a 1st+a prospect that's not quite as good as Kapanen but close in return and I'd live with that if it gave an extra year before we had to make a decision on keeping a UFA winger. RW is a little crowded for us with Marner/Nylander/Brown though

 

[Starat327]

Does Simmonds exclusively play RW?

If it was Kapanen and a 1st, I think that could actually be of interest if if freed JVR up for trade. I think we'd be looking at a 1st+a prospect that's not quite as good as Kapanen but close in return and I'd live with that if it gave an extra year before we had to make a decision on keeping a UFA winger. RW is a little crowded for us with Marner/Nylander/Brown though

Yeah, Simmonds doesnt do well on his off-wing, or at least didnt when we tried to make Simmonds - G - Voracek a thing, anyway.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

o


I Mean, yours doesnt even make sense(provorov wasnt a top 5 , Marner isnt even close to the value of Provorov, while it could easily be argued that Simmonds > JVR, and theres literally no argument to be made that Provorov is struggling, whil you could argue Marner is - but i wouldnt) but yeah, sure.

Neither makes a lick of sense. That's the point.

 

[Starat327]

Neither makes a lick of sense. That's the point.

So the answer to nonsense is nonsense? How witty of you.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Yeah, Simmonds doesnt do well on his off-wing, or at least didnt when we tried to make Simmonds - G - Voracek a thing, anyway.

guess that makes sense, he uses his body to protect the puck so well, he'd want his stick to the boards side

If we got Nylander signed (want his comps to be wingers, not centers) then we moved him to center and it worked, I'd be on board with Kapanen+1st. Then we deal JVR for a similar-ish return to restock what we lost, and let Leivo have a real look in JVR's spot

Nylander's eligible to be re-signed whenever at this point, I think he was holding out to see if he could have a big season and get moved to center but maybe he'd be flexible because he's not playing center at all. We'd have to do it before the TDL so JVR could be moved out

 

[Starat327]

guess that makes sense, he uses his body to protect the puck so well, he'd want his stick to the boards side

If we got Nylander signed (want his comps to be wingers, not centers) then we moved him to center and it worked, I'd be on board with Kapanen+1st. Then we deal JVR for a similar-ish return to restock what we lost, and let Leivo have a real look in JVR's spot

Yes, thats a big reason why him on LW wasnt as effective.

Sounds like it could work from your end, might be a deal worth exploring this off-season when Bozak is gone and Nylander (presumably) is forced to shift over?

Which side is Kapanen playing more of for the marlies these days? If memory serves, he was bouncing from wing to wing, curious if they've settled on a side or not?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Yes, thats a big reason why him on LW wasnt as effective.

Sounds like it could work from your end, might be a deal worth exploring this off-season when Bozak is gone and Nylander (presumably) is forced to shift over?

Which side is Kapanen playing more of for the marlies these days? If memory serves, he was bouncing from wing to wing, curious if they've settled on a side or not?

Marleau has been filling in as a center too, and said that he doesn't mind staying there to the media which could just be him toeing the company line

Kapanen's still playing both sides, more RW now but he does have the right skillset to play his off wing - fast, shifty, good quick release. I like him on LW better but I think he'll always have the ability to play either

 

[Golden_Jet]

What would it take?

Unavailable:
Matthews
Nylander
Marner
Anderson
Rielly
Kadri​

Then its not happening.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

So the answer to nonsense is nonsense? How witty of you.

Simply holding up a mirror for you.

 

[Starat327]

Marleau has been filling in as a center too, and said that he doesn't mind staying there to the media which could just be him toeing the company line

Kapanen's still playing both sides, more RW now but he does have the right skillset to play his off wing - fast, shifty, good quick release. I like him on LW better but I think he'll always have the ability to play either

Got it. I dont know leafs lines, but i assume they'd look something like this if you made the trade?

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Marleau - Nylander - Simmonds
XXX - Kadri - Brown


Does that look about right? I assume someone like Bracco or as you mentioned, Leivo would fill in that 3LW spot? Brown and Simmonds could probably slide up/down accordingly, as well. Having Marleau with Nylander in theory would allow for growing pains of Nylander at C, and while Simmonds certainly isnt a Selke candidate, hes decent defensively as well.

Good to hear on Kap. Having someone with flexibility would be huge for us as it allows us to throw a few different looks. Given Giroux at LW and the likely emergence of Linblom next year, the top 6 for LW is relatively locked - but Lindblom has played both in the past as well. There's also Konecny who has played both, too.

 

[tony d]

Kapanen, Gardiner and a 2018 1st for Simmonds.

 

[Starat327]

Kapanen, Gardiner and a 2018 1st for Simmonds.

I guess we could turn around and flip Gardiner for something, sure.

 

[Viqsi]

I can't think of any reasonable scenario that ends with Jenner on the Leafs while omitting Kadri - he'd be our target. It just seems like a poor trade match.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

There is no logic for the Leafs to give up assets for wingers. Maybe a defencemen. Leafs are good at RW, so trading one (Marner) for another (Simmons) is kinda a lateral move. Even this year, there stats are almost identical.
Jenner is nice, but doubt if replaces Hyman, JVR or Marleau at LW, so what's the point?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Got it. I dont know leafs lines, but i assume they'd look something like this if you made the trade?

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Marleau - Nylander - Simmonds
XXX - Kadri - Brown


Does that look about right? I assume someone like Bracco or as you mentioned, Leivo would fill in that 3LW spot? Brown and Simmonds could probably slide up/down accordingly, as well. Having Marleau with Nylander in theory would allow for growing pains of Nylander at C, and while Simmonds certainly isnt a Selke candidate, hes decent defensively as well.

Good to hear on Kap. Having someone with flexibility would be huge for us as it allows us to throw a few different looks. Given Giroux at LW and the likely emergence of Linblom next year, the top 6 for LW is relatively locked - but Lindblom has played both in the past as well. There's also Konecny who has played both, too.

Ya that's pretty much it in the long term, Komarov is still on the team for now as well so he's attached to Kadri until that changes

Bracco is probably still 2 years away, but Leivo/Soshnikov are on the NHL roster and Andreas Johnsson looks like he's ready for a try whenever he's called upon, so there's options. Marleau can move to the Kadri line and Nylander's line could be sheltered too so we have some roster flexibility

even if something on this scale was unlikely and you guys needed RW prospects, there's probably a prospect-for-prospect deal to be made for a Bracco/Johnsson that could make sense too that could give you a chance to replace Simmonds minutes out of the system. We could use more center depth on the farm if you had any comparable prospects to those guys that are up for trade

 

[Philadelphia Ducks]

Kapanen, Gardiner and a 2018 1st for Simmonds.

switch kapanen for brown

 

[Halla]

I am guessing Jackets want our 1st+ or Liljegren is mentioned. Our wingers are fine. Defense needs fixing. Other teams would likely outbid us.

if the leafs moved liljegren for boone jenner there would be riots

 

[Halla]

I am 100 percent serious.

I think Simmonds for Marner is a legitimate offer Philly should be seeking and value isn't insanely off. Remember, we got Top 5 picks in Schenn and Voracek (plus more) for Richie and Carter. Sure there's arguments to be made about their contracts being longer and being better (maybe), but that's why it's a 1-1 swap I'm proposing.

Marner seems to be the one struggling of the top 3 or 4 big guns in TO...Simmonds could really help them. Gotta give to get -- this may be the price to "get" a Wayne Simmonds.

uhmmm yeah it is. Simmonds is basically a more physical JVR (30g or so/50-60pts). He is gonna get paid huge after next season. you don't trade a kid with 61pts in 77 games for someone 9 years older and soon to get 2x his salary in UFA.

this is basically the equivalent of the leafs asking for Patrick for JVR

 

[Starat327]

Ya that's pretty much it in the long term, Komarov is still on the team for now as well so he's attached to Kadri until that changes

Bracco is probably still 2 years away, but Leivo/Soshnikov are on the NHL roster and Andreas Johnsson looks like he's ready for a try whenever he's called upon, so there's options. Marleau can move to the Kadri line and Nylander's line could be sheltered too so we have some roster flexibility

even if something on this scale was unlikely and you guys needed RW prospects, there's probably a prospect-for-prospect deal to be made for a Bracco/Johnsson that could make sense too that could give you a chance to replace Simmonds minutes out of the system. We could use more center depth on the farm if you had any comparable prospects to those guys that are up for trade

Ya that's pretty much it in the long term, Komarov is still on the team for now as well so he's attached to Kadri until that changes

Bracco is probably still 2 years away, but Leivo/Soshnikov are on the NHL roster and Andreas Johnsson looks like he's ready for a try whenever he's called upon, so there's options. Marleau can move to the Kadri line and Nylander's line could be sheltered too so we have some roster flexibility

even if something on this scale was unlikely and you guys needed RW prospects, there's probably a prospect-for-prospect deal to be made for a Bracco/Johnsson that could make sense too that could give you a chance to replace Simmonds minutes out of the system. We could use more center depth on the farm if you had any comparable prospects to those guys that are up for trade

We've got some decent C pieces that project as mid or bottom 6C, but really only Frost and Rubstov for a top 6 kind of role. I wouldn' feel comfortable moving them until Patrick asserts himself a little more though.

 

[Martin Skoula]

switch kapanen for brown

Lmao please tell me you're kidding.

I love Simmonds' game, but let's be realistic here. A PP specialist (50% of his goals on the PP, around 40% of his total points) winger who has a 60 point ceiling is not going to return a top-4 D on an identical contract, let alone adding a 1st + 20 goal scorer PK specialist with upside.

Just for fun, Gardiner had 30 points at even strength last year, Simmonds had 27.

 

[Philadelphia Ducks]

Lmao please tell me you're kidding.

I love Simmonds' game, but let's be realistic here. A PP specialist (50% of his goals on the PP, around 40% of his total points) winger who has a 60 point ceiling is not going to return a top-4 D on an identical contract, let alone adding a 1st + 20 goal scorer PK specialist with upside.

Just for fun, Gardiner had 30 points at even strength last year, Simmonds had 27.

PP goals count for the same amount as EV goals on the scoreboard.

 

[Martin Skoula]

PP goals count for the same amount as EV goals on the scoreboard.

Weird how Simmonds' scoring dries up to an 18 goal/40-some point pace in the playoffs. It's almost like depending on the powerplay isn't a reliable source of offense.

 

[Halla]

o


I Mean, yours doesnt even make sense(provorov wasnt a top 5 , Marner isnt even close to the value of Provorov, while it could easily be argued that Simmonds > JVR, and theres literally no argument to be made that Provorov is struggling, whil you could argue Marner is - but i wouldnt) but yeah, sure.

so this is what chia did to the percevied value of dmen....sigh

leafs are more than happy with marner. they chose him over hanifin,werenski and provorov.

I think werenski is the only guy they would move magic mitch for

 

[Halla]

PP goals count for the same amount as EV goals on the scoreboard.

Simmonds would have been 7th among leafs forwards in scoring last year. safe to say they arent giving up prime assets for him. offense and wing in particular arent a problem