Line Combos: Was trading for Bolland a mistake?

[nuck]

My hope is that he does have any amazing season as I'd love the leafs to have a good run

He doesn't have to be amazing for the deal to work out. A 35 point season with better than average defense in the 3 spot is worth at minimum 3 wins over Grabovski there. When the playoffs come and they have him and a Bozak with two functional arms, plus Kadri a year older, they will present a much tougher center position for whoever they meet.

 

[varano]

Franson is proven? Proven to be what?

For God's sake, we're arguing over a guy who was mainly our #5 last year. Yeah, he picked it up in the playoffs and could easily slot into the top 4 this year, but overpaying for limited success is how you end up with a Ville Leino contract.

I would hardly say that comparing our number one defenceman in points/assists last season to a ville leino situation is fair

 

[Duke Silver]

I would hardly say that comparing our number one defenceman in points/assists last season to a ville leino situation is fair

Half-season. That's the point.

 

[varano]

Half-season. That's the point.

Great then by that standard, I bet we can sign Kadri for a cool 750K and he'd be stupid not to accept

 

[shakes]

I would hardly say that comparing our number one defenceman in points/assists last season to a ville leino situation is fair

All you seem to be doing in this thread is making strawman arguments but I think that was your intention when you created it.

Btw, this was the worst attempt in the thread


Also BTW, it's EXACTLY like the Leino situation or Blake or anyone else that has a career year and expects to be paid like he's been doing it his entire career. At least Leino did it for a full season.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I was being facetious.

Every team is built differently. There isn't a cookie-cutter definition for what constitutes a third liner.

The way the Leafs are constructed, with the way Carlyle coaches, Bolland will be relied upon to play tough minutes against the opposition's best players to try and limit them offensively., while providing sporadic offensive input himself.

That type of line exists on other teams, and are clearly superior. My point is Bolland is going to miserably fail if he's running a Super Nintendo line with McClement ( ridiculously overrated over here) and Kulemin. His best performance was with Havlet/ Ladd and last season he looked pretty decent with Kane in a scoring role.

We don't have the luxury of a top-6 forward who is a proficient two-way player, so this is what Bolland will be relied upon for. We can only make use of what we have, and forcing players into roles they are not comfortable with is what can ruin a player's effectiveness (see: Grabovski last season).

We're talking about a guy who wasn't used in a shut down role last season. During the seasons he was used as one, he either had Havlet or Ladd. It is getting obvious that he needs his own Ladd, and that would clearly be JVR.

Using JVR in a garbage goal scoring role is a waste. Kessel tends to under perform when he's given no space. For that reason, he'd even perform well with someone like Bickell, who, in my opinion, Clarkson is better than.

 

[KevinChurch*]

Given their current cap issues, I'm of the opinion that Mclement should have taken the third line. The 4th line is clearly a checking line and Mclement is too good to be surrounded by two bangers.

I'm already negative on the idea of a checking line as opposed to a 4 line roll out using young kids on the 4th line but thats a different story

It was a good trade they got him for next to nothing

 

[The_Chosen_One]

McClement brings nothing offensively.

A 3rd line needs to be able to chip in offence.

McClement 5 on 5 is a 4th liner (or at best the weakest link as a wing on the 3rd) whose an elite PKer which gets him just inside the top inside top 9 in terms of TOI.

Sometimes I wonder if this team is located in Tanzania. It was obvious that during the playoffs, he was not regularly used against the Krejci line. That dinosaur named Carlyle started realising that Frattin, MacArthur, Lupul and even Colborne in a limited offensive-zone role just looked better against the top lines. Most teams in the NHL are moving towards this direction.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

no getting the best 3rd line center in the game is not a mistake

The "best" third liner in the NHL is Derick Brassard. I find it hilarious that such a claim can be made and yet considering Kessel top 10 amongst forwards is considered a ridiculous claim. Jesus, are we acquiring the next Dave Keon or something?

Hmm...I'd want James Sheppard as our "third line" centre...

 

[Cor]

The "best" third liner in the NHL is Derick Brassard. I find it hilarious that such a claim can be made and yet considering Kessel top 10 amongst forwards is considered a ridiculous claim. Jesus, are we acquiring the next Dave Keon or something?

Hmm...I'd want James Sheppard as our "third line" centre...

Dave Keon is a 3rd liner?

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Bolland brings a dimension we were really missing last season.

The way Toronto has been built is that we had no answer in are forward group in being able to shutdown power forward types like Eric Staal, Rick Nash, Krejci-Lucic-Horton line.

Bolland is more of a super pest. His playing style never really worked against the Ducks, for instance. He could get into Thornton's head, but if you want him hitting extensively, it'd be against someone like Mike Richards. However, I couldn't see him containing Eric Staal, Rich Nash, etc, and instead we'll be relying on Phaneuf a lot.

Bolland gives us a dimension that we sorely lacked last year and could have been the difference against Boston in being able to make life a lot more difficult for Krejci instead of watching Grabo skate around a 100 miles an hour looking like he's doing lots but taking himself out of defensive position more often than not.

I don't remember Bolland having a spectacular positional game. Maybe "good", but could be considered an overstatement. My point is, he's not going to our own Bergeron (defensive-side), because that's not what he was in Chicago. Instead he is the agitator who compliments a more skilled shut down type.
I would suggest venturing to the Winnipeg boards and ask about Ladd's role (with Little) in key shut down roles. Unlike, Bolland, Ladd is still being used in that role.

If we're to advance in the playoffs this upcoming year it's almost certain we'll be playing Pittsburgh or Boston at some point so we needed someone to shut down whichever line is hotter out of Krejci/Bergeron or Crosby/Malkin who all play big.

I think we need to groom Kadri into our own Keon/ Glmour. His playing style, and versatility - not to mention in defensive game at lower levels - makes him suitable. For a long time, two-way skilled centres is what led teams to cups.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Dave Keon is a 3rd liner?

Didn't he effectively shut down Jean Béliveau? Sounds like a "3rd liner" to me.

 

[wulfio*]

lol corsi stats

was so nice i hadn't seen anyone mention that garbage for a while.

 

[WWB]

Again, I'll say that if you're valuing either of these players at less than 3 million a year on the open market, you're mistaken.

Neither of these players are on the open market. They RFA's and can be signed for a cost in return and not for free.

It boggles my mind how many people actually think Franson and Kadri are going to triple there salary based on one shortened 48 game season. If Nonis pays either of these two more than $2.25-2.5 million each then I'd say he deserves the criticism he seems to be getting around here.

P.K. Subban got a $2.875mil avg. at the start of last season, and he had proven a hell of a lot more than either of these two have. To think Nonis will get these guys to sign for less than what P.K. signed for is not that far fetched, especially with the cap going down.

Trading for Bolland was not a mistake, he brings some seriously much needed grit to the top 9.

 

[Duke Silver]

The "best" third liner in the NHL is Derick Brassard. I find it hilarious that such a claim can be made and yet considering Kessel top 10 amongst forwards is considered a ridiculous claim. Jesus, are we acquiring the next Dave Keon or something?

Hmm...I'd want James Sheppard as our "third line" centre...

Sometimes I wonder if the video feed for hockey games comes through upside-down on Australian televisions because you have some of the most bonkers positions on players that I have seen on the Leafs boards.

Just wow.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

lol corsi stats

was so nice i hadn't seen anyone mention that garbage for a while.

Umm..it's called watching the games. You don't need "advanced stats" to tell you that Dave Keon and Red Kelly were probably the best "shutdown" centre in the history of this franchise. Seeing that I've seen a number here getting clowned on the general boards, I don't even have to bother.

The fact is, Bolland had nothing to do with the shut down line last season. I wouldn't consider him the main guy that contained Getzlaf et al, but as a complimentary super-pest. I would suggest getting familiar with Andrew Ladd. He is still used in this role and yet produces at a PPG rate. He is physical, uses his body and I actually see a bit of LeClair in there.

LOL

 

[Duke Silver]

Great then by that standard, I bet we can sign Kadri for a cool 750K and he'd be stupid not to accept

You're really bad at this whole counter-argument thing. You pick the most extreme example possible and formulate your counter-point around it. Just desperate.

If you think Kadri's inexperience and small sample size doesn't work against him in contract negotiations then I don't know what to tell you. Obviously it's not going to be to the extent of paying him 750k, that's ludicrous.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Sometimes I wonder if the video feed for hockey games comes through upside-down on Australian televisions because you have some of the most bonkers positions on players that I have seen on the Leafs boards.

Just wow.

Sometimes I wonder if a number of posts here can keep up with the game. The term "third line" isn't associated with anything, but ice time. As a fan of hockey, I've actually watched Chicago and can tell you that Bolland isn't Dave Schultz in terms of nastiness or Don Saleski in terms of effectiveness. He's not a Dave Keon in terms of shutting down top forwards.

Randy Carlyle's shut down line tends to receive second in TOI. To treat Bolland like a Zetterberg is probably not wise. I'm not exactly opposed to his acquisition and think that letting JVR play a Ladd-esque role with the third guy being Kulemin or Colborne would produce a legitimate shut down line.

 

[SteveV*]

I haven't liked what I've seen from Bolland since early August, nice move Nonis!

 

[indigobuffalo]

It would take a miracle to move Liles??

I'm sure the Isles or some other team would be happy to take him for a song, if they could. At the very most it would cost us downgrading a pick, such as Liles+5th for 6th or 7th. But that's an exageration.

Liles alone should still fetch a 2nd, or 3rd at worst.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

As soon as I saw this I was like YES! Bolland is a good player and all, but he's too much of a luxury considering all that we still need to sign Franson and Kadri, and the amount we had to pay for him was ridiculous and his salary So what he has two Stanley Cups? Troy Brouwer hasn't helped the Caps win the cup yet, and he's a better player than Bolland. I think we could have made due with Colbourne as our third line center. The Clarkson thing too, but at least that filled a need. We didn't need a third line center.

 

[jmart21]

It would take a miracle to move Liles??

I'm sure the Isles or some other team would be happy to take him for a song, if they could. At the very most it would cost us downgrading a pick, such as Liles+5th for 6th or 7th. But that's an exageration.

Liles alone should still fetch a 2nd, or 3rd at worst.

I've said it before; and I still believe it....

...I think Liles is here as insurance on Franson. If Nonis and company don't think Franson is going to come down to realistic terms, they've got a vet dman dying to play; making less than what Franson will be asking for.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It would take a miracle to move Liles??

I'm sure the Isles or some other team would be happy to take him for a song, if they could. At the very most it would cost us downgrading a pick, such as Liles+5th for 6th or 7th. But that's an exageration.

Liles alone should still fetch a 2nd, or 3rd at worst.

It would take a miracle, nobody wants him and Carlyle butchered his trade stock.

 

[ACC1224]

I've said it before; and I still believe it....

...I think Liles is here as insurance on Franson. If Nonis and company don't think Franson is going to come down to realistic terms, they've got a vet dman dying to play; making less than what Franson will be asking for.

I think so too.

 

[DjD4GGR]

McClement-Bolland-Kulemin will be the reason why we make the playoffs next year. Talk about shutting down the opponent's top players game after game.