Line Combos: Was trading for Bolland a mistake?

[jmart21]

I think so too.

We likely won't be able to keep both Franson and Liles; but there's a very real possibility that Franson is gone. It's at least nice to know we've got someone ready to go.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

McClement-Bolland-Kulemin will be the reason why we make the playoffs next year. Talk about shutting down the opponent's top players game after game.

Um McClement is a pure center.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Um McClement is a pure center.

Except when he is played on the wing.

 

[diceman934]

Um McClement is a pure center.

He played on the wing more last year then he did at center.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He played on the wing more last year then he did at center.

I'm pretty sure he didn't. He played most of the season on the bottom line between Orr and Brown/McLaren.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Except when he is played on the wing.

Since you have so much confidence, show me proof he played on the wing.

 

[Duke Silver]

I've said it before; and I still believe it....

...I think Liles is here as insurance on Franson. If Nonis and company don't think Franson is going to come down to realistic terms, they've got a vet dman dying to play; making less than what Franson will be asking for.

Nonis is in a difficult position.

If he trades Liles before signing Franson and Kadri, he loses the negotiating leverage of being able to say "we simply don't have the cash" to both players.

If he signs Franson and Kadri before trading Liles, and gets put over the cap limit, he loses negotiating leverage with potential trading partners who would sense the Leafs desperation and be able to use that against them in trade talks.

However, with the CBA allowing the Leafs to keep up to 50% of a traded player's contract on their books, I'm not as panicked as others when it comes to finding a new home for Liles, which I believe has been Nonis' plan all along. I'd imagine that teams would be interested in Liles at less than $2M per season.

 

[jmart21]

Nonis is in a difficult position.

If he trades Liles before signing Franson and Kadri, he loses the negotiating leverage of being able to say "we simply don't have the cash" to both players.

If he signs Franson and Kadri before trading Liles, and gets put over the cap limit, he loses negotiating leverage with potential trading partners who would sense the Leafs desperation and be able to use that against them in trade talks.

However, with the CBA allowing the Leafs to keep up to 50% of a traded player's contract on their books, I'm not as panicked as others when it comes to finding a new home for Liles, which I believe has been Nonis' plan all along. I'd imagine that teams would be interested in Liles at less than $2M per season.

Exactly.

If he were to have bought out Liles or traded him already; Franson would have him overa a barrel.

At least this way; if it becomes clear that Franson won't agree to the terms management feel are fair, we've got a dman that can play. As I write this I think to myself this was probably another factor in buying out Komi over Liles (Liles would be much more likely to actual play at a comparable level to what we'd lose in Franson).

 

[Duke Silver]

Exactly.

If he were to have bought out Liles or traded him already; Franson would have him overa a barrel.

At least this way; if it becomes clear that Franson won't agree to the terms management feel are fair, we've got a dman that can play. As I write this I think to myself this was probably another factor in buying out Komi over Liles (Liles would be much more likely to actual play at a comparable level to what we'd lose in Franson).

Essentially he's hedging his bets.

Franson OR Liles + trade return for Franson.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Nonis is in a difficult position.

If he trades Liles before signing Franson and Kadri, he loses the negotiating leverage of being able to say "we simply don't have the cash" to both players.

If he signs Franson and Kadri before trading Liles, and gets put over the cap limit, he loses negotiating leverage with potential trading partners who would sense the Leafs desperation and be able to use that against them in trade talks.

However, with the CBA allowing the Leafs to keep up to 50% of a traded player's contract on their books, I'm not as panicked as others when it comes to finding a new home for Liles, which I believe has been Nonis' plan all along. I'd imagine that teams would be interested in Liles at less than $2M per season.

I think Nonis wants to play Liles during the season, and hopefully that'll improve his value so that by the time the trade deadline comes around we can get rid of him.

 

[Mapleleafers*]

No, bringing back Bozak was a bigger mistake. I'd rather convert JVR or Kessel to center than have Bozak. Unless Kadri starts on the 1st line and Bozak is on the 2nd, it was a mistake bringing him back.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

No, bringing back Bozak was a bigger mistake. I'd rather convert JVR or Kessel to center than have Bozak. Unless Kadri starts on the 1st line and Bozak is on the 2nd, it was a mistake bringing him back.

Not as big as bringing in Bolland or Clarkson. Bozak was actually a steal compared to the 5+ mill he wanted, and to be fair he came off probably his best season.

 

[Mapleleafers*]

Not as big as bringing in Bolland or Clarkson. Bozak was actually a steal compared to the 5+ mill he wanted, and to be fair he came off probably his best season.

LMAO did you just say Bolland and Clarkson were bigger mistakes? Do you watch hockey???

Clarkson, other than Lucic, is the BEST TRUE powerforward in the league. Every team wants a Lucic type player and Toronto got the closest thing. You were probably a person that wanted a Lucic type player too. NHL is more than goals and assists. Clarkson brings physicality that not many teams are lucky enough to have in their top 6. He also fills the void of Frattin and Macarthur otherwise we would be looking for 2 wingers instead of a 3rd line winger.

Now this is where I get confused....HOW IS BOLLAND A MISTAKE? If Bolland is a mistake than Gunnarson is a mistake, Bozak is sure as hell a mistake, Clarkson too. Everyone we brought in this offseason is a mistake. Who do you expect to play 3C? Bolland filled a hole in our lineup. You can't be a succesful NHL team with holes in your lineup. I know what your gonna say though, lets just call up a Marlie. Sure we could do that but then we'd have a PATHETIC bottom 6.

 

[Ruski]

Not as big as bringing in Bolland or Clarkson. Bozak was actually a steal compared to the 5+ mill he wanted, and to be fair he came off probably his best season.

Doesn't matter what he wanted.....he got a pretty big paypay for a guy who only had one great year, surrounded by two top scorers in a shortened season. Sure lupul was hurt but some star was always with Bozak.

Shouldn't justify the price by comparing it to the monster Clarkson deal. Justifying a semi-bad deal with another high-risk, borderline-terrible with medium-return deal isn't the greatest idea either.

On the other hand, thats what happens when you get to FA and the market demand takes over.

 

[jmart21]

No, bringing back Bozak was a bigger mistake. I'd rather convert JVR or Kessel to center than have Bozak. Unless Kadri starts on the 1st line and Bozak is on the 2nd, it was a mistake bringing him back.

Why is it a mistake? He's just as productive as other members of our top6 and is arguably the best defensively and a key cog to our much improved PK.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

LMAO did you just say Bolland and Clarkson were bigger mistakes? Do you watch hockey???

Clarkson, other than Lucic, is the BEST TRUE powerforward in the league. Every team wants a Lucic type player and Toronto got the closest thing. You were probably a person that wanted a Lucic type player too. NHL is more than goals and assists. Clarkson brings physicality that not many teams are lucky enough to have in their top 6. He also fills the void of Frattin and Macarthur otherwise we would be looking for 2 wingers instead of a 3rd line winger.

Now this is where I get confused....HOW IS BOLLAND A MISTAKE? If Bolland is a mistake than Gunnarson is a mistake, Bozak is sure as hell a mistake, Clarkson too. Everyone we brought in this offseason is a mistake. Who do you expect to play 3C? Bolland filled a hole in our lineup. You can't be a succesful NHL team with holes in your lineup. I know what your gonna say though, lets just call up a Marlie. Sure we could do that but then we'd have a PATHETIC bottom 6.

Obviously I do more than you. Anybody can see that bringing in a powerforward until he is 36 and paying him over 5 mill is a huge mistake. Sure Clarkson is a top 6 powerforward (pure powerforwards aren't in the top 6, Lucic isn't a pure powerforward either), and he'll be worth his money for maybe 3 years, alright great. After that, he'll most likely be a bottom 6 player getting paid 5 mill.

Also, paying 3 good draft picks and 3 mill for a 3rd line center is a mistake, especially when you could have picked up a third line center just like him FA for a lot less. Bolland only had 14 points last year, and he was almost going to be taken as a compliance buyout if someone didn't take him because Chicago really needed the money. It's like we traded a 2nd and two 4ths for Liles.

Gunnarsson IMO was overpaid, but at least he wasn't overpaid in term, and he was coming off his best season, so he can command give or take 3 mill, and we just gave a little more. Bozak was commanding 5 mill and we got him or 4.25, which is less than Filpulla and Weiss, who btw only played in 17 games and got 4 points. So yeah, Bolland and Clarkson's contracts were worse than Bozak's.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Doesn't matter what he wanted.....he got a pretty big paypay for a guy who only had one great year, surrounded by two top scorers in a shortened season. Sure lupul was hurt but some star was always with Bozak.

Shouldn't justify the price by comparing it to the monster Clarkson deal. Justifying a semi-bad deal with another high-risk, borderline-terrible with medium-return deal isn't the greatest idea either.

On the other hand, thats what happens when you get to FA and the market demand takes over.

And Clarkson WASN'T surrounded by Kovalchuk, Zajac, Parise, etc. in the only two relevant seasons in his career. Okay then.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Why is it a mistake? He's just as productive as other members of our top6 and is arguably the best defensively and a key cog to our much improved PK.

Maybe not just as, but pretty close that's for sure, and he contributed to their production.

 

[diceman934]

I'm pretty sure he didn't. He played most of the season on the bottom line between Orr and Brown/McLaren.

Too funny, he played over 15 minutes a game and Orr had just over 6....
He played wing with Grabo a lot more then he played Center. Orr and Mclaren had many centers last year....including Grabo, Kadri and Komarov

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Too funny, he played over 15 minutes a game and Orr had just over 6....
He played wing with Grabo a lot more then he played Center. Orr and Mclaren had many centers last year....including Grabo and Kadri.

Show me proof, because he's our top faceoff man. And I know for sure he played center on PK.

 

[jmart21]

Too funny, he played over 15 minutes a game and Orr had just over 6....
He played wing with Grabo a lot more then he played Center. Orr and Mclaren had many centers last year....including Grabo, Kadri and Komarov

http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-co...eam=TOR&strength=EV&playertype=F&gametype=ALL

2nd most common FWD line was McClemment with Kulie and Grabo.

As McClement only took fewer than 2/3rds as many faceoffs as Grabo did, I'd assume he was the one playing centre while this line was on the ice.

 

[diceman934]

Show me proof, because he's our top faceoff man. And I know for sure he played center on PK.

Show you proof.....I did. Also by the way Bozak took most of the faceoffs while shorthand in our zone.

 

[jmart21]

Show me proof, because he's our top faceoff man. And I know for sure he played center on PK.

McClement was not our top faceoff man.

 

[Warden of the North]

Thread de-railed.

Closed