Line Combos: Was trading for Bolland a mistake?

[shakes]

Nonis cant make it work. If he did, Kadri and Franson would be signed. We can both do the math here and realize that what Kadri and Franson are worth (even by underassesment) cant fit into the cap space that they have.

That is just completely wrong.

They would be signed if they were asking for salaries that Nonis thinks are fair. You may be able to do math but unless you are a GM and have a history of negotiating contracts, you are only guessing.

 

[mcleex]

There absolutely no way this question can be answered until Bolland plays at least one game for us. Let alone a full season

 

[Kessely Snipes]

Can't go wrong with extra depth.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I think we'll see him providing offence. He'll either complement Kadri, like a grittier Marchand, or form a strong two-way line with someone like JVR/ Lupul.

Say...

JVR/ Lupul - Bolland - Colborne

Bolland as a super pest with two guys who can take up space. JVR / Lupul can carry the line much like Patrick Kane did with Bolland during the regular season. Colborne will be a cheap utility guy, but would help Colborne out as well. In fact, this kind of format would be superior to the shutdown unit that we used in the playoffs.

Bolland for Grabovski

JVR for McClement ( as seen in the playoffs)

Colborne for Kulemin ( who can be on the Kadri line)

 

[GardinerExpressway]

I'm not mad about the trade but I didn't think it was very necessary - we gave up too much for a guy in the last year of his contract who didn't play very good last year or when he did play in the playoffs. I think his aav is high for what he will bring to the team

>didn't play very good in the playoffs
>scored Stanley cup game winning goal
>your point is invalid

 

[Rielly4]

Picture Mike Richards hockey with a little less offense but meaner.

This is a FANTASTIC pickup, my favourite of the off season. Dave Bolland is the best 3rd line center in the NHL, i would not rather have any current 3rd line center except maybe guys who are there by default like ROR. But for the pure shutdown line that can play 20 minutes a night against the oppoisitions top lines that Carlyle loves to use, Bolland is perfect.

Having Bolland and Clarkson on the same team is something i cherish and am so happy about. Winning a championship is the goal, but i want to have a team that i love to watch.

Not to mention Orr and Mclaren on the 4th line, we have two sets of bang brothers.

 

[Duke Silver]

I'm not mad about the trade but I didn't think it was very necessary - we gave up too much for a guy in the last year of his contract who didn't play very good last year or when he did play in the playoffs. I think his aav is high for what he will bring to the team

It was Bolland who made this hit which caused the turnover that lead to Seabrook's OT winner against the Red Wings in Round 2:



It was Bolland who made this hit in the dying minutes of a one-goal game on Mike Richards, arguably saving a goal, and knocking Richards out of the last 3 games of the series.



It was Bolland who initially tipped this point shot in triple-overtime, which hit Shaw's shin pad and went in.



And it was Bolland who scored the cup-winning goal in the last minute of play in Game 6 to win the cup.

When the game is on the line, and you need a hero, Bolland is made of the right stuff to get it done. It's a rare quality to have someone who elevates their game when it's needed the most. He's going to be a heart-and-soul player for this team and I don't think anyone will be lamenting the loss of a 2nd rounder and two 4th rounders by the time the games start actually being played.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Picture Mike Richards hockey with a little less offense but meaner.

This is a FANTASTIC pickup, my favourite of the off season. Dave Bolland is the best 3rd line center in the NHL, i would not rather have any current 3rd line center except maybe guys who are there by default like ROR. But for the pure shutdown line that can play 20 minutes a night against the oppoisitions top lines that Carlyle loves to use, Bolland is perfect.

Having Bolland and Clarkson on the same team is something i cherish and am so happy about. Winning a championship is the goal, but i want to have a team that i love to watch.

Not to mention Orr and Mclaren on the 4th line, we have two sets of bang brothers.

What is a third liner? A line that shuts down top lines? I'd rather give that award to Bergeron, Datsyuk - Zetterberg, and others. Most of the 'third lines" on our competition provide depth scoring while their shut down line is a legitimate top six line as well.

Not a knock on Bolland, but I think we should be moving towards a strong two-way shut down line.

 

[Duke Silver]

What is a third liner? A line that shuts down top lines? I'd rather give that award to Bergeron, Datsyuk - Zetterberg, and others. Most of the 'third lines" on our competition provide depth scoring while their shut down line is a legitimate top six line as well.

Not a knock on Bolland, but I think we should be moving towards a strong two-way shut down line.

A third liner is a player who doesn't play on the top two lines or the fourth line.

 

[Tak7]

We are a better team with Bolland, compared to without Bolland.

So no - trading for Bolland wasn't a mistake.

I'd suggest that if Bolland doesn't re-sign here beyond this season, then it might be a mistake, but all that depends on what Bolland can accomplish with the Leafs this season.

For example, if the Leafs make the playoffs and go on a very deep run, and Bolland is central to that, then was it really a bad trade? I'd still say yes - we gave up a lot for one player to give us one very good year, but it would at least start a discussion.

As it stands, we aren't in a position to judge whether or not the Bolland trade was a good trade (similarly to pretty much all of Nonis' moves this off-season), until we see the final product and what it can do

 

[Trainspotter]

A mistake?

No.

Non.

Nej.

Niet.

Ne

Ei.

 

[gordonshumway]

When the game is on the line, and you need a hero, Bolland is made of the right stuff to get it done. It's a rare quality to have someone who elevates their game when it's needed the most. He's going to be a heart-and-soul player for this team and I don't think anyone will be lamenting the loss of a 2nd rounder and two 4th rounders by the time the games start actually being played.

I won't argue that Bolland is a good player to have, as far as lamenting the loss of picks, I guess that will all depend on whether the Leafs are able to retain him next year - if this is a one-year rental, then it's a pretty crappy price to pay.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

A third liner is a player who doesn't play on the top two lines or the fourth line.

Sounds like a limited definition. Detroit's third line has noting to do with shutting down. In fact, it's more of a depth scoring line. The same goes for Montreal's third line with Gionta, or the Ottawa's third line with Zibanejad.

TOI should be the only attribute for lines. Chicago's "third line" with Krueger, Saad, and Shaw is a depth scoring line. Regardless, there is no way Bolland is the best shut down centre or the best depth scoring centre. I think we need to be realistic here considering that he's slowed down and he can't be a consistent grinder either. More of an agitator that goes after the best.

 

[varano]

That is just completely wrong.

They would be signed if they were asking for salaries that Nonis thinks are fair. You may be able to do math but unless you are a GM and have a history of negotiating contracts, you are only guessing.

Again, I'll say that if you're valuing either of these players at less than 3 million a year on the open market, you're mistaken.

 

[613Leafer]

I think that if we had traded away fewer picks/prospects in the past, we likely would have had an equivalent internal option for 3rd line C (Gauthier as an example, except he's a few years away).

Trading a 2nd and two 4ths for a pending UFA 3rd liner when we're not contenders and his caphit makes it difficult for us to sign our RFAs? Doesnt seem like the best move to me. Especially since trading away those picks is exactly the type of deal thats prevented us from building a proper 3rd line internally to begin with, so longterm it just adds to the problem.

I like Bolland. Love his effort and his versatility. But I do think generally speaking its bad cap/asset management for a building team to continually trade away picks/prospects for NHLers, especially guys that arent franchise players. All it does is take away from our prospect pool, push us hard against the salary cap, and doesnt even make us legit contenders.

 

[shakes]

Again, I'll say that if you're valuing either of these players at less than 3 million a year on the open market, you're mistaken.

Well it's a good thing they aren't on the open market now, aren't they. Are you seeing how things work now? GMs should not pay open market prices for players not on the open market.

 

[varano]

Well it's a good thing they aren't on the open market now, aren't they. Are you seeing how things work now? GMs should not pay open market prices for players not on the open market.

lol would you be saying that if Franson decides that he'll ditch for Europe? Or if Kadri decides to hold out for a couple months? Or if an Offer sheet occurs? You think we hold all the cards when we really dont.

The comical part is that even at 3 million a piece, they wont fit.

 

[613Leafer]

RFA caphits are hard to predict. MDZ, Subban, Duchene, etc all got less than I would have expected in the past.

But thats also only if you sign them to a 1 or 2 year deal. And even then, I think itd be surprising to see them come in under 3M.

 

[varano]

I think that if we had traded away fewer picks/prospects in the past, we likely would have had an equivalent internal option for 3rd line C (Gauthier as an example, except he's a few years away).

Trading a 2nd and two 4ths for a pending UFA 3rd liner when we're not contenders and his caphit makes it difficult for us to sign our RFAs? Doesnt seem like the best move to me. Especially since trading away those picks is exactly the type of deal thats prevented us from building a proper 3rd line internally to begin with, so longterm it just adds to the problem.

I like Bolland. Love his effort and his versatility. But I do think generally speaking its bad cap/asset management for a building team to continually trade away picks/prospects for NHLers, especially guys that arent franchise players. All it does is take away from our prospect pool, push us hard against the salary cap, and doesnt even make us legit contenders.

I agree.

 

[The Caveman]

Look at other fan boards from the west and see how happy they are that Bolland is no longer on the Hawks.

He is an agitator, he scores big goals, he loves playing against other team's top players, and he is a winner. Young players learn from their peers. Who better a role model than a guy like Bolland for our young players? This is about a culture change, and Bolland's worth to this team will go far beyond simply his play on the ice.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Summer > bolland

^Maybe the best post in this discussion.

Every Clarkson and Bolland thread leads to the same discussions as before:

- griping about the Grabo buy out
- griping about cap space
- griping about Clarkson's term and age
- griping about Bernier's inexperience

Overall these discussions all have one thing in common:

An aversion to change. I think if these complainers were GM we'd be stuck in 2nd last every year.

Once the pre-season predictions come out by all the hockey media, I think our sour fans will think differently. Our team has turned a corner and these moves are meant to be for a playoff contending team.

 

[ColdSteel2]

When Bolly is healthy, he is a force. When he is playing hurt, which he has to very often, he can struggle a lot. I hope you guys get a good year out of him, but it all comes down to his health. I love Bolland but he probably only has 3 or 4 more good years left despite his age.

For the record, I think it is a good gamble for the Leafs. If he is at least healthy for the playoffs, it is worth it.

 

[shakes]

lol would you be saying that if Franson decides that he'll ditch for Europe? Or if Kadri decides to hold out for a couple months? Or if an Offer sheet occurs? You think we hold all the cards when we really dont.

The comical part is that even at 3 million a piece, they wont fit.

If Franson goes to Europe then don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's Cody Franson for God sakes, not PK Subban. The Leafs have other players that will take his spot without missing a beat. Speaking of Subban, did he go to Europe? Or get offer sheeted? Or did he cave?

If Kadri wants to sit then he sits but if the Leafs have to match an offer sheet, they can. There won't be an offer sheet as history tells.

If these two players want to stunt their growth by sitting out, it's only going to hurt their paycheck.

 

[gabeliscious]

i dont see how it is a mistake. you take a chance and bring in players as they become available.

i think we gave up a lot when you factor we didnt send any salary back so it is an extra ~$3 million on the books this season that nonis might not have been expecting but we got a pretty good 3rd line center out of the deal.

as far as im concerned we have a legit 2nd line center (kadri), a legit 3rd line center (bolland), and a legit 4th line center (mclemment). ignoring bozak on the first line nonis did a good job down the middle imo. this is probably the best center depth we have had in a while. bolland will also make us a little tougher to play against and has more offensive upside then mclemment. he will also give carlyle more options for who he puts on the pk. we definitely have a lot more two way forwards then we used to which should go a long way for us.

i can see how nonis can get blamed for certain things like buying out komisarek instead of liles but other then that im not sure you can really say he has done a bad job. i guess people will just be on edge until kadri and franson get sorted out.

 

[Brewsky]

So Bolland and Clarkson are over-rated and over-paid.

Let's just watch them play in their OWN city for once, with that blue and white pride and see them go into Super Saiyan mode once they put that sweater on.