Was it a mistake to trade for Bobby Ryan?
- Thread starter Stylizer1
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YouGotAStuGoing
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And whether he re-signs or not will be a pretty big factor in discussing whether it was a mistake to trade for him or not.
Compromise? When this thread reaches 1000 posts instead of a part 2 we move to a "player discussion: Bobby Ryan" or an "all-purpose BR" thread.
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Stylizer1
SENSimillanaire
Or third option, gets traded to team he wants to go to and signs an extension.
Stylizer1
SENSimillanaire
You are missing the point. Benji, a reliable source, says he is committed to extend.
Damage control cost the 1st instead of a 2nd. Murray wanted the trade anyways. He was clearly after Ryan for atleast 2 years.
PoutineSp00nZ
Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Exactly. That trade wasn't suddenly pitched and accepted in the hours between alfie leaving and Ryan applying for a work visa.
StefanW
Registered User
True. And then when we are discussing multiple Ryan topics, like the trade and the signing, it becomes a Bobby Ryan discussion thread. But as a poster said earlier, we are high up in the post count here anyway so it makes the most sense to just start the new one as a Ryan discussion thread.
StefanW
Registered User
Yup. This is one of the big reasons why I never believed trading Ryan was really an option for the team. BM coveted Ryan for ages, and we paid for him. BM will do what it takes to keep him.
The problem with the alleged 2 year/7.5 & 7 year/6.5 is that the longer deal should be for MORE money. That's why PK Subban got big money over a time span where the cap is expected to rise significantly. Why would Ryan take LESS money over more time, other than security? That's a great deal for the Sens, not so much for Ryan. You might as well offer him 7/7.5 or 7 years at 7 million & hope for the best.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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Both deals look good. Of course, the second one locks up Ryan a lot longer and is definitely preferable.
We have a top young goalie poised to become a solid (and eventual star) starter, we have the most dynamic generational defenseman int he league, a handful of good kids on the way, a strong scouting department, and a young growing team with potential. Plus, we're in one of the easiest divisions in the league, in the easier conference, with easy travel. Ottawa is also in a good area geographically to be close to family, in a small-big-town (where you're both known and unknown, depending where you go in the city) that's reasonably safe and secure.
We may not have a big budget (right now), a beach in February, or big Hollywood stars to rub elbows with, but we still have a lot to offer. Just our schedule and division alone will go a long way to extending a players' career (and boosting their stats).
We have a top young goalie poised to become a solid (and eventual star) starter, we have the most dynamic generational defenseman int he league, a handful of good kids on the way, a strong scouting department, and a young growing team with potential. Plus, we're in one of the easiest divisions in the league, in the easier conference, with easy travel. Ottawa is also in a good area geographically to be close to family, in a small-big-town (where you're both known and unknown, depending where you go in the city) that's reasonably safe and secure.
We may not have a big budget (right now), a beach in February, or big Hollywood stars to rub elbows with, but we still have a lot to offer. Just our schedule and division alone will go a long way to extending a players' career (and boosting their stats).
Those may be the offers on the table and Ryan will be considering them but remember guys, they are offers. Ryan's agent is likely to come back and counter offer, rather than to straight up accept those term.
I think Ryan ends up coming back to the table and countering on the 8 year contract, and we settle on a cap hit around 7mil.
Honestly I would be so happy to sign Ryan to a contract like that, only because as a free agent I know he could potentially get so much more from a GM looking to make a splash on July 1.
I think Ryan ends up coming back to the table and countering on the 8 year contract, and we settle on a cap hit around 7mil.
Honestly I would be so happy to sign Ryan to a contract like that, only because as a free agent I know he could potentially get so much more from a GM looking to make a splash on July 1.
I don't really care about cap hit since the Sens don't want to be a cap team... Just get the guy signed
Derivation
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- Jan 4, 2010
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Yeah but what if Melnyk's internal cap is a percentage less of what the league cap is. For example 10% less or 15% of what the overall for the league is. Therefore when the league cap rises, we'll rise with it.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
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The cap only matters if you want to spend to it? How much money you spend doesn't matter unless you reach the limit of what you are allowed to spend?
That's an absolutely ridiculous assertion
That's an absolutely ridiculous assertion
danielpalfredsson
youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
- Aug 14, 2013
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Budget teams do not care about cap hits.
They are relevant for trades only, because if Ottawa was to trade Colin Greening to the Blackhawks per example, the Blackhawks would have to be sure they could fit in a player with a 2.5M cap hit.
I think I commented on the cap hit in an earlier post, but I was just trying to play devil's advocate and outline the worst case scenario, which would be Bobby Ryan devolving into a third liner for the second half of his contract, while Ottawa is then ready to spend to the cap because Melnyk won lotto 649 or something.
Odds are, cap hit will be irrelevant for most or all of the contract, and Bobby Ryan's cap hit as well as salary will end up being a slight bargain in the long run. In 4 years, we could see UFA 20 goal scorers getting 5-6 million. Advanced statistic arguments aside, Pouliot got 4 million for 15 goals.
I could be wrong, but my interpretation was that they agreed in theory to either one of those deals after negotiating, and now it is up to Ryan to decide whether he wants to settle down for the rest of his career in Ottawa.
I'm sure he could get more than 6.5 on the open market, but he also takes a risk that he'll get injured, or have another season like last year where due to injuries or other factories he might not hit the numbers he should be capable of hitting. Kessel got 8 from the Leafs and he is one of the elite scorers of the league. 6.5 for Ryan is a pretty good comparable.
An example, Vanek was probably always going to Minnesota depending on who you believe, but look at how much his stock seemed to drop after his run with Montreal. That's why extensions some times become more desirable than testing the market, so long as the team extending the player is being reasonable.
I dont think you are reading that situation right. PK got less on the short term bridge contract because it was all RFA years being bought. The longer contract is now more expensive because it is buying ufa years.
Players in general will trade a little bit of annual salary for longer term security. As most of us would likely do too. What Ryan's agent will likely be shooting for is the $50 mil contract, 8 yrs/6.25 maybe? Sens so far have been reluctant to offer contracts that long though.
Quo
...
All correct. This, though, a special case I think. A player long coveted by Murray, whom we've paid a premium to bring into the fold. Arguably the only top-flight goal scorer we have. Long term contract here makes a ton of sense for both parties.
It is for more overall at $6.5 x 7 = $45.5m versus $7.5m x 2 = $15m. More overall yes, but some future years could be for less than earlier years to reflect performance degradation as a player ages. Yes, some future years could be at a higher annual rate, but that would reflect greater potential if the player's current performance is on a rising trajectory. Then there is the cap rising due to revenue growth factor.
Another factor is if he wants to commit 8 years too Ottawa (and if we will become contenders in that span). I guess we could solve that by giving him a full NTC.
StefanW
Registered User
You pay more per year on contracts in instances when you buy UFA years. The assumption being that a player can cash in for more on the UFA market. It does not apply at all to the Ryan negotiations.
I agree.
We have enough promising prospects and some good top-6 players that have a lot of peak playing time ahead of them. Along with our gem on defence, this team has the promise of some fantastic playoff runs in the next few years. We really need Zibanejad to become the fast, strong, and smart sharp-shooter that his junior worlds performance and early nhl career had hinted at. Plus what you mentioned.
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