Voynov will not renew KHL contract, wants NHL return (expressed interest in 5 teams)

[chaosrevolver]

Or what if Heatley had killed someone again driving drunk?

Well he didn't but yea.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Or if Kane was accused of something again (rape, robbery...), or Bertuzzi, or Buff drives a boat drunk again, or if Stoll and coke, or Belfour's drunk antics, or Austin Watson... domestic abuse.. Nashville Predators Forward Austin Watson Arrested (oh look, he's in the NHL this year), Panik DUI... he's playing for the Coyotes this year... Ryan O'Reilly DUI, Giroux (arrested but not charged -> Although few details were immediately available, a source said Giroux was arrested for repeatedly grabbing the buttocks of a male police officer. Alcohol is believed to have been involved. Or what if Heatley had killed someone again driving drunk?

Only Watson's is pertinent in this discussion as it isn't from 25 years ago like Belfour and it isn't DUI like a bunch of others you named. The reality is that DUI just isn't considered an immoral crime by the populace, probably because most people have done it at some point. Maybe you think it should be, but it's not. And being arrested but not convicted or even charged is a helluva different than being convicted. I don't even know why you'd try to argue otherwise.

So we are left with Watson. An article in the Tennessean called for his outright release. His case is very similar to Voynov's- same charge, same no contest, same agreement. The only different is his case "supposedly" was more verbal than physical. His wife, unlike Voynov's was not treated in the ER. Sutures weren't used to close any wounds. Police didn't find blood all over the scene.

Looks like Nashville is sticking by him, which is their absolute right. But it's highly unlikely that this was his first incident or that Voynov's was his first (especially since his wife told the ER workers it wasn't the first). You'd have to be incredibly naive to think it was. And thus it's not a stretch to think it may happen again. As a franchise you have to ask where would you rather err- on giving a guy a 2nd chance, or being associated with a person who has done something your own franchise has made a point to speak out against. As an owner, you may opt for the former.

Given the absolutely sickening details of the Voynov incident, that's not something I'd be comfortable doing. If you can that's your choicel

 

[Starat327]

Did i really just read that killing someone because you made the dumb decision to drive drunk isnt considered an 'immoral' crime, or at least, not on the same level as beating your wife?

Please, tell me i'm misreading this.

 

[Invictus12]

Did i really just read that killing someone because you made the dumb decision to drive drunk isnt considered an 'immoral' crime, or at least, not on the same level as beating your wife?


Please, tell me i'm misreading this.

This is just rich, isn't it? Apparantly hitting women trumps death here. My boss' daughter got hit by a car 3 years ago with her son. The boy is dead and she was paralyzed. She recovered physicaply but, lets face it. Though, it wasn't a dui case. The guy was texting while driving and I guess there fore, is perfectly morally absolved.

 

[CauZuki]

I dont know exactly what went on between them but I do know that its between them. Sorry, you wont find me the camp that 'no matter what a woman does, she's above being hit.
I do know that he has went through courts on this. I do know they are still together and its ultimately their. Movements like metoo are good for women who are victims and dont know how or where to turn. Oh and why is it worse for a man to beat a woman than another man? I actually one to see the twists in logic here..

Men are on average biologically stronger than women this is a fact. Professional athletes are exponentially stronger than your average male. How are you defending someone who beat his wife bloody (and nearly to death?) The evidence is freely available with the released assesment from ER doctors as well as the very detailed and extensive Police report.

North American standards dictate that we do not accept this type of behaviour. It stems from garbage mentality that is tolerated in other parts of the world. I don't understand how anyone can condone this behaviour. There are degrees of seperation in bad behaviour , the principle of the North American justice system (while being different share this as a foundation).

 

[Starat327]

Men are on average biologically stronger than women this is a fact. Professional athletes are exponentially stronger than your average male. How are you defending someone who beat his wife bloody (and nearly to death?) The evidence is freely available with the released assesment from ER doctors as well as the very detailed and extensive Police report.

North American standards dictate that we do not accept this type of behaviour. It stems from garbage mentality that is tolerated in other parts of the world. I don't understand how anyone can condone this behaviour. There are degrees of seperation in bad behaviour , the principle of the North American justice system (while being different share this as a foundation).

She was hardly beaten "nearly to death". Good god, people. Also, no one is condoning the behavior. This entire post needs to take a lap.

 

[CauZuki]

She was hardly beaten "nearly to death". Good god, people. Also, no one is condoning the behavior. This entire post needs to take a lap.

"Voynov pushed her to the ground approximately six to seven times with both hands, telling her that he wanted a divorce and to 'Get out,' " the report said.
Varlamova told police that Voynov then kicked her five to six times while on the ground. She said she screamed for him to stop.

When she rose, the report said, Voynov pushed her into the corner of a flat-screen television mounted on the wall, opening a gash above Varlamova's left eye. Varlamova said the couple's bedroom was "covered in her blood."

If you consider this in the spectrum of acceptable responses to wanting a divorce then please seek psychiatric help , good luck.

 

[Invictus12]

Men are on average biologically stronger than women this is a fact. Professional athletes are exponentially stronger than your average male. How are you defending someone who beat his wife bloody (and nearly to death?) The evidence is freely available with the released assesment from ER doctors as well as the very detailed and extensive Police report.

North American standards dictate that we do not accept this type of behaviour. It stems from garbage mentality that is tolerated in other parts of the world. I don't understand how anyone can condone this behaviour. There are degrees of seperation in bad behaviour , the principle of the North American justice system (while being different share this as a foundation).

Yeah I know what the laws are and I do think they're a tad unfair on the matter. There's a video on youtube I saw once where a guy on Safari, feeling safe from the seat of the car antagonizing a lion. Well, the lion broke through the window and clawed the guy... This may shock you to your very core, I mean, the lion is so much bigger and powerful... I actually did not think to my self. 'oh what a terrible lion.' My thoughts were, 'good riddance'. When a women uses the social opinion and the man's very belief not to be physically intimidating towards a woman as a platform from which she abuses the man, I have very little sympathy for her when the man says enough and displays that he can just as easily start dealing with it on his terms. Oh and what do you know? Women, as studies have shown, are no less abusive than men are.

 

[Invictus12]

"Voynov pushed her to the ground approximately six to seven times with both hands, telling her that he wanted a divorce and to 'Get out,' " the report said.
Varlamova told police that Voynov then kicked her five to six times while on the ground. She said she screamed for him to stop.

When she rose, the report said, Voynov pushed her into the corner of a flat-screen television mounted on the wall, opening a gash above Varlamova's left eye. Varlamova said the couple's bedroom was "covered in her blood."

Please seek psychiatric help , good luck.

And yet she freely talked and walked while being nearly beaten to death? Logic much?

 

[CauZuki]

And yet she freely talked and walked while being nearly beaten to death? Logic much?

Yeah I know what the laws are and I do think they're a tad unfair on the matter. There's a video on youtube I saw once where a guy on Safari, feeling safe from the seat of the car antagonizing a lion. Well, the lion broke through the window and clawed the guy... This may shock you to your very core, I mean, the lion is so much bigger and powerful... I actually did not think to my self. 'oh what a terrible lion.' My thoughts were, 'good riddance'. When a women uses the social opinion and the man's very belief not to be physically intimidating towards a woman as a platform from which she abuses the man, I have very little sympathy for her when the man says enough and displays that he can just as easily start dealing with it on his terms. Oh and what do you know? Women, as studies have shown, are no less abusive than men are.

That scenario is very comparable, great point an animal behaves like an animal does , resorting to primal strength. Well guess what? In the same way that I don't murder the guy going 30 in a 70 zone , you shouldn't beat on your spouse unless you are in immediate physical danger. It's pretty straight forward and it's scary that you think that any marriage situation justifies a professional athlete beating on his wife even a little...

We aren't animals we have basic rules of conduct as part of our society.

 

[Starat327]

"Voynov pushed her to the ground approximately six to seven times with both hands, telling her that he wanted a divorce and to 'Get out,' " the report said.
Varlamova told police that Voynov then kicked her five to six times while on the ground. She said she screamed for him to stop.

When she rose, the report said, Voynov pushed her into the corner of a flat-screen television mounted on the wall, opening a gash above Varlamova's left eye. Varlamova said the couple's bedroom was "covered in her blood."

If you consider this in the spectrum of acceptable responses to wanting a divorce then please seek psychiatric help , good luck.

Again, no one is condoning the behavior or saying its acceptable. You can let go of the self-righteousness.

You can also stop pretending that kicking, punching, and a cut that required 8 stitches is "beaten to death". If thats the case, every professional boxer and MMA fighter in the world is nearly beaten to death in about every match, and masses watch that for entertainment. Hell, they pay to see it, so what does that make them?

 

[CauZuki]

Again, no one is condoning the behavior or saying its acceptable. You can let go of the self-righteousness.

You can also stop pretending that kicking, punching, and a cut that required 8 stitches is "beaten to death". If thats the case, every professional boxer and MMA fighter in the world is nearly beaten to death in about every match, and masses watch that for entertainment. Hell, they pay to see it, so what does that make them?

Seriously equating professional fighters that don't even fight out of their own weight class with a physical response to a marital dispute? This is the furthest thing from apples and oranges...

 

[Tripod]

Again, no one is condoning the behavior or saying its acceptable. You can let go of the self-righteousness.

You can also stop pretending that kicking, punching, and a cut that required 8 stitches is "beaten to death". If thats the case, every professional boxer and MMA fighter in the world is nearly beaten to death in about every match, and masses watch that for entertainment. Hell, they pay to see it, so what does that make them?

In fairness, those are controlled environments when there is someone there to stop things.

She may have not been beaten to death, but I am willing to bet she was scared that she might be with no end in sight, and no one to help her or to stop it.

 

[Invictus12]

That scenario is very comparable, great point an animal behaves like an animal does , resorting to primal strength. Well guess what? In the same way that I don't murder the guy going 30 in a 70 zone , you shouldn't beat on your spouse unless you are in immediate physical danger. It's pretty straight forward and it's scary that you think that any marriage situation justifies a professional athlete beating on his wife even a little...

We aren't animals we have basic rules of conduct as part of our society.

You don't but there are people that will. And that's the difference you don't recognize. Context matters. If a guy in front of you not only going 30 but purposely weaving so that you can't pass him and imagine you have an emergency... Something tells me sooner or later you will f***ing snap. Might just ram the car into his rear and then start beating the crap out of him. Believe it or not, I know of quite a few cases from actual life where just about everyone in the person's life will say the person was never violent and lay a hand on anyone only to come to breaking point... You can pretend to be different but it's actually a matter of being pushed down that path.

 

[Starat327]

Seriously equating professional fighters that don't even fight out of their own weight class with a physical response to a marital dispute? This is the furthest thing from apples and oranges...

Youre missing the entire point i was making. im not equating what Voynov did to paid entertainers. Never did i make that comparisson. Im using it to you taking some serious poetic license to equate 8 stiches, punches and kicks to "nearly beaten to death".

Comprehension is a little difficult, it seems.

 

[Starat327]

In fairness, those are controlled environments when there is someone there to stop things.

She may have not been beaten to death, but I am willing to bet she was scared that she might be with no end in sight, and no one to help her or to stop it.

The point isnt that Voynov is a paid prize fighter, and that comparison was note made. The comparison was about someone saying 8 stitches, being punched and kicked - while sustaining no 'major' injuries - is "nearly beaten to death". The comparison was to the injuries, not who was doing the beating, or the environment.

 

[CauZuki]

You don't but there are people that will. And that's the difference you don't recognize. Context matters. If a guy in front of you not only going 30 but purposely weaving so that you can't pass him and imagine you have an emergency... Something tells me sooner or later you will ****ing snap. Might just ram the car into his rear and then start beating the crap out of him. Believe it or not, I know of quite a few cases from actual life where just about everyone in the person's life will say the person was never violent and lay a hand on anyone only to come to breaking point... You can pretend to be different but it's actually a matter of being pushed down that path.

The rare/minority case should not be used to define policy. I am the last thing from PC and hold many conservative views that being said entertainment figures should be held at the minimum to a defined standard. Allowing him to play , as talented as he may be , would essentially say that the NHL tolerates or sweeps this type of behaviour under the rug(and some might say condoning).

Humans are free to their speech and actions but they are not free from the consequence of said action. Beating your wife doesn't go hand in hand with celebrated athlete that children idolize.

 

[Starat327]

The rare/minority case should not be used to define policy. I am the last thing from PC and hold many conservative views that being said entertainment figures should be held at the minimum to a defined standard. Allowing him to play , as talented as he may be , would essentially say that the NHL tolerates or sweeps this type of behaviour under the rug(and some might say condoning).

Humans are free to their speech and actions but they are not free from the consequence of said action. Beating your wife doesn't go hand in hand with celebrated athlete that children idolize.

But beating a cabby, Killing a teammate, opearating your vehicle/boat under the influence, etc are?

Here's the problem - you are attempting to apply the restraints of your moral compass to this situation. Not everyone's moral compass is the same. Do i condone what Voynov did? Absolutely not. It was horrific and he deserves to be punished for it. And he was. He likely will be again, if the NHL decides to reinstate him.

Ultimately the NHL gets to decide where there moral compass lies. But since they dont have a defined domestic abuse policy, and because they've mismanaged the off-ice behaviors of its employees in the past, theyre going to have a hell of a time proving to the NHLPA and then a court, that nows a good time to start.

 

[CauZuki]

But beating a cabby, Killing a teammate, opearating your vehicle/boat under the influence, etc are?

Here's the problem - you are attempting to apply the restraints of your moral compass to this situation. Not everyone's moral compass is the same. Do i condone what Voynov did? Absolutely not. It was horrific and he deserves to be punished for it. And he was. He likely will be again, if the NHL decides to reinstate him.

Ultimately the NHL gets to decide where there moral compass lies. But since they dont have a defined domestic abuse policy, and because they've mismanaged the off-ice behaviors of its employees in the past, theyre going to have a hell of a time proving to the NHLPA and then a court, that nows a good time to start.

This is absolutely not what is happenning? Where do I condone Heatley's or the other behaviour you mention? Since when are things tolerated in the past used to dictate current policy? Corporations and private entities have evolved with societive norms, how are you not acknowledging this principle?

If I have a reading comprehension issue as you claim, then you are the one attempting to straw man this discussion to justify allowing a player that publicly displayed intolerable behaviour for a normal human being not to mention a public figure and professional athlete...

 

[Invictus12]

The rare/minority case should not be used to define policy. I am the last thing from PC and hold many conservative views that being said entertainment figures should be held at the minimum to a defined standard. Allowing him to play , as talented as he may be , would essentially say that the NHL tolerates or sweeps this type of behaviour under the rug(and some might say condoning).

Humans are free to their speech and actions but they are not free from the consequence of said action. Beating your wife doesn't go hand in hand with celebrated athlete that children idolize.

I'm actually not a conservative at all. Their BS, IMO is no different than liberal's, inside a different wrapper.
No one here advocating for policy based on a minority case. It's more along the lines of it being treated on a case by case basis. And for that to work right, it need to be tried in court. There are reasons why there are procedural rules in courts. Public opinion has no such procedures and advocating that NHL, base their decision (Verdict actually) based on public out cry is no different than burning a witch at the stake in medieval times. If you feel that his time was too light in court, that's one thing. I can't even comment on that because I simply don't follow the case. However, that's where you advocate... For laws to be tougher on such matters. NHL and NFL has nothing to do with this matter and they shouldn't nor `does it actually fix any problems if they do get involved.

 

[Starat327]

This is absolutely not what is happenning? Where do I condone Heatley's or the other behaviour you mention? Since when are things tolerated in the past used to dictate current policy? Corporations and private entities have evolved with societive norms, how are you not acknowledging this principle?

If I have a reading comprehension issue as you claim, then you are the one attempting to straw man this discussion to justify allowing a player that publicly displayed intolerable behaviour for a normal human being not to mention a public figure and professional athlete...

He didnt publicly display anything.

And you are right - corporations are evolving to new social norms. The problem there, is that unions - all of them, inclusive of the NHLPA - work on the idea of setting precedent. The NHL could have taken a hard line stance when this happened, and instituted a policy. They could have recamped their off ice code of conduct after the Heatley incident, or the multiple other 'character issues' that have occurred. But they havent.

The NHLPA is going to use that, and say that the NHL did not take action at the time of the incident to not adjust their policy, and as such, Voynov didn't violate any 'league laws'. ITs an absolute shame that they didnt do something about it then. But they are going to have one hell of a time with thhe NHLPA and in court, to prove they have any case for not reinstating him in the NHL.

Its absolutely disgraceful that the NHL is the only major sports league that doesnt have a domestic abuse policy. What Voynov reportedly did is also disgraceful. I'm perfectly ok with having the opinion that you dont want him on your team. I think youre going to be in for a shock if you think he doesnt make it back though, and even more so if you think no teams will take the chance on him.

 

[mervincm]

A team's history of accepting bad behaviour is not a reason to continue to do so. I believe it's motivation to say enough is enough and do better.

 

[CauZuki]

He didnt publicly display anything.

And you are right - corporations are evolving to new social norms. The problem there, is that unions - all of them, inclusive of the NHLPA - work on the idea of setting precedent. The NHL could have taken a hard line stance when this happened, and instituted a policy. They could have recamped their off ice code of conduct after the Heatley incident, or the multiple other 'character issues' that have occurred. But they havent.

The NHLPA is going to use that, and say that the NHL did not take action at the time of the incident to not adjust their policy, and as such, Voynov didn't violate any 'league laws'. ITs an absolute shame that they didnt do something about it then. But they are going to have one hell of a time with thhe NHLPA and in court, to prove they have any case for not reinstating him in the NHL.

Its absolutely disgraceful that the NHL is the only major sports league that doesnt have a domestic abuse policy. What Voynov reportedly did is also disgraceful. I'm perfectly ok with having the opinion that you dont want him on your team. I think youre going to be in for a shock if you think he doesnt make it back though, and even more so if you think no teams will take the chance on him.

They may not have specific policy for spousal abuse but they do have policy for convicted felons. Especially one that beat his wife at a team halloween party. One which was very public and on the news (don't know how you say it wasn't public). Stop saying alleged , he was tried , convicted and served time. This is a clear misrepresentation of the argument and I would be surprised (and disapointed) to see Voynov back. I don't see how the pros of a team having a slightly better lineup outweighs the cons of the bad PR.

 

[Starat327]

They may not have specific policy for spousal abuse but they do have policy for convicted felons. Especially one that beat his wife at a team halloween party. One which was very public and on the news (don't know how you say it wasn't public). Stop saying alleged , he was tried , convicted and served time. This is a clear misrepresentation of the argument and yes I would be surprised to see Voynov back. I don't see how the pros of a team having a better defense outweighs the cons of the bad publicity.

He isnt a felon. He admitted to a misdemeanor, not afelony charge.

The case was made public sure. But the actual abuse wasnt public like Ray Rice's was. That's what i meant, and if you meant the case was, then yes i would agree - much like all cases are public record.

That also ties into the 'reported' comment i made (i never said 'alleged'). He beat his wife, thats what he admitted to, and i'm not saying he didnt. The degree of which largely depends on which reports you want to believe(for the 90th time - im not condoning any spousal abuse, to be clear). We can speculate why all we want, but His wife recanted her statements on the degree of the assault and how much was his fault. None of us know what happened inside their house. Maybe she is telling the truth in her reveised statemtn (i dont think she wholly is), but maybe she's telling a little more truth to it than the night it happened.

 

[billybudd]

Yet Todd Bertuzzi, who is also an "alien" as described by US law, had no problem renewing his work visa despite being convicted of a premeditated criminal assault that left his victim unable to ever play again with a significant brain injury. Betcha if he was Russian we would have never seen him again...

Convicted abroad.

A foreign conviction for assaulting a foreign national on foreign soil--particularly in the context of a sporting event in which the victim is, himself, a villainous character--isn't a death sentence in terms of seeking a US work visa. If it was, the US wouldn't be able to accept anyone running from an authoritarian state.

A foreign national with a DV conviction on US soil is an automatic denial, though (at least these days).