Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
Fair and I agree about Kemp. I just kinda of expect him to take his shot, and I can't fault him if he chooses to do that.
Player Discussion Vincent Desharnais
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Bank Shot
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There are 9 guys that are RHD who are playing between 14-17 minutes up as free agents next summer.
Surely you can get a serviceable 3rd pairing RHD for around $1 million when you are looking as strong as the Oilers are.
Janmark, and Ryan took pay cuts to come back despite good seasons last year. Perry just signed for league minimum. Surely the Oilers can find a quality RHD for $1 million.
Oilers have only $14 million in space next year. They have to squeeze pennies on bottom of the roster guys. No way I'd be giving Vinny $1.5M per. I would struggle to even give out $1.2M.
$1 million seems like a fair amount giving his current role and experience. If Vinny wants to chase dollars like Kostin, I wouldn't hold it against him, but the Oilers have options now, and they shouldn't overpay for replaceable pieces.
bucks_oil
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- Aug 25, 2005
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He's more than just serviceable. His on ice goals against (5v5) has been THE LOWEST on the team for two years straight (1.7 and 1.8/60 respectively). Ekholm is close, but everyone else is at least a half goal per 60 higher.
Lowetide's article on him earlier this week also laid out some other advanced stats (I don't remember them all to quote), but what stood out for me was 2nd in the ENTIRE LEAGUE in shot suppression.
He's easily worth 1.5 given his role as a shutdown guy and on the PK... and he's good at it. But you are right, we can't afford that... every 100K counts... but 1.2 with term would be ideal. When he stops performing to his role, he's a great team guy and you put him in the AHL.
Bank Shot
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His goals against and shot suppression are low because the coaches put him in positions to succeed.
Also the Oilers as a team are a possession wagon this year so I would expect a bunch of their players to be near the top of the league in possession/suppression metrics.
I think he's good for his role, but he's also in a role where there are an abundance of players capable of filling that role. I also wouldn't mind paying him $1.5 million if the Oilers had any kind of room, but they are tapped out.
9 might be out of necessity ....
The few that are worth a darn are not going for a million. Sure you can add Zaitsev for 1M. Probably Bogosian. Hakanpaa. Stecher. Ruwedel. Etc.
I'll take the younger player you know, depending on what salary is of course.
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
Lol, so you're using circular logic to undermine a player who's having a great year for the team, nicely done.
Well he's only good because of the spot he's put in and he's only good in that spot because the team. And around and around it goes.
f***ing stop, Vincent Desharnais has been excellent for this team.
Zaitsev, Bogosian and Ruwedel are not better than Desharnais in his role.
Bank Shot
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Adam Erne is looking good in a lot of metrics as well. He's first on the Oilers in expected goals against/60.
I like Vinny and his story, but he's a Derek Ryan/Janmark level piece of the puzzle. Good bang for the buck, likeable player, but very replaceable.
elmeroil
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I don't know about very replaceable, he seems loved by his teammates as well and strikes me as a great guy in the room. Add that with his shut down play and I don't think very replaceable is accurate.
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
That's a thing an unserious person says.
You're absurd, I get you don't like the way he looks, but get over yourself
Bank Shot
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Maybe you just don't understand the arguement?
Guys like Desharnais and Erne on strong teams will often have really good underlying numbers because they play low minutes in sheltered situations. This caused people to think Jess P was a great defensive player.
Vinny is at BEST the 13th most important player for the Oilers currently. That is not an irreplicable part.
I guess you must be out of any legit hockey arguments because you are just attacking me now. Not sure why you are getting so angry over an end of the roster player. Are you related to Vinny?
Trafalgar Sadge Law
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- Nov 8, 2007
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How many defenseman <1 million are in this league that can play as well as him while dragging around the anchor that is Brett Kulak? A good bang for your buck player is far more valuable than you think and most cup champions are filled with them (Cogliano, Helm, O'Connor etc all fit this category for Colorado, Byram too if you go off salary though he's much better, Tampa had plenty as well)
Desharnais' value is tied to his physical size, it's far from a simple plug and play proposition to replace him.
He's also developing fairly strong (for his profile of player) passing and puck skills, and that can't be discounted. The number of guys with his size, defensive ability, AND puck handling ability that is only getting better is a rare combination. Like there might only be a handful of guys in the league with that skills combination.
If you can get him on a deal that has some term, but with an AAV that is buryable I would jump on that.
He's also developing fairly strong (for his profile of player) passing and puck skills, and that can't be discounted. The number of guys with his size, defensive ability, AND puck handling ability that is only getting better is a rare combination. Like there might only be a handful of guys in the league with that skills combination.
If you can get him on a deal that has some term, but with an AAV that is buryable I would jump on that.
MessierII
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This is an awful comparison. Kulak and Vinny are arguably the best bottom pair in the nhl.
guymez
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I agree with this and I like Vinny. Especially in the role that he is currently in.
The question is going to be...how much can the team afford to pay for that role?
Its very hard to describe him like that, then say get him term and buriable. If it is really a rare combination and only a handful of guys, he's getting more than "buriable".
But regardless how people may see it, I'm betting there are at least half a dozen GM's out there that think he's a top 4 fit for their team, especially if Edmonton has a good playoff run.
I'm still thinking he gets 3 years @ 2M on he open market.
Bank Shot
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Carolina's third pair currently has Orlov, and Colorado's has Byram so I disagree.
I like Kulak and Vinny, but I think some other teams are deeper on D.
And yet, Edmontons 3rd pair is doing better.
Edmonton is running a pretty balanced roll out of d vs elites.
Kulak and Desharnais are playing 27% of their time against elites. They have a 52% corsi, roughly a 42% GF% and a 53% DFF.
Orlov is more sheltered playing a 22% against elites, a 47.6 DFF%, 53% corsi 40% GF.
Byram is at 26% against elites, 48% corsi, 49% DFF and a 58% GF
So Byram is playing better than them for sure but Orlov is definitely more sheltered and not quite doing as well.
Desharnais ranks 36th against elites this year and Kulak ranks 6th (Bouchard and Ekholm are 1 and 2)
A lot of Bouchard and Ekholms success is the amount that we have been able to NOT shelter Kulak and Desharnais. We don't even have a defender in the top 100 of time against elites this year.
AT the end of the day, Kulak and Desharnais good play this year (we can say they don't pass the eye test but analytically, they absolutely do) is why the other pairings have been doing so well. Which imho highlights even more how Ceci is the weak spot.
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
It's no secret I'm a big fan of Vinny (and not one of Gregor lol), but this is a solid interview.
I don't know what happens this summer, but I hope he gets paid.
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
- Mar 8, 2011
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Vinny has been a great story so far. He's obviously improved by leaps and bounds but I hope he continues to aggressively hone his game. His skating and reaction time in tight spaces under pressure is not quite there yet, sometimes. Same with puck movement and decision making, although his improvement from a season ago is astonishing. The stats back him up but I hope he continues to work his ass off improving his game.
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
His ability to play very physical and not take penalties often should have a positive effect come playoff time. You're right, he's made himself firmly an NHL defenseman
