Ville de Québec Part XI: Être ou ne pas être? Telle est la question!

[Hal1971]

Oh really? Then you're right. There must have been a super secret guarantee that an NHL team would be coming to Quebec city once an arena is built. That's like solid evidence.

I think this is a solid arguments for the return of the Nordiques...

"When MacLean later asked why southern Ontario is not an option for another NHL team, Bettman said he would rather "fix a couple things that we couldn't fix a couple of years ago," in reference to the Winnipeg Jets and Quebec Nordiques.

"I hope our friends in Quebec City and Winnipeg aren't offended," Bettman said. "You'd like to put them further down on the list. I'd like to right something we wish didn't happen."
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/bettman-battles-maclean-on-hnic-1.885331

 

[cheswick]

I think this is a solid arguments for the return of the Nordiques...

"When MacLean later asked why southern Ontario is not an option for another NHL team, Bettman said he would rather "fix a couple things that we couldn't fix a couple of years ago," in reference to the Winnipeg Jets and Quebec Nordiques.

"I hope our friends in Quebec City and Winnipeg aren't offended," Bettman said. "You'd like to put them further down on the list. I'd like to right something we wish didn't happen."
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/bettman-battles-maclean-on-hnic-1.885331

Straw man argument. I never said anything the chances of the Nordiques coming back or not. I simply said that the notion that the new arena was built only after the NHL guaranteeing a team absolutely laughable. It never happened. The arena was built on the hope of getting a team, not on the guarantee of it.

 

[Brick City]

Things have been awfully silent on the Hamilton front too. Sounds like a team is moving there....

With all due respect you are absolutely [mistaken] if you think that the NHL guaranteed Quebec City a team if they built an arena. The arena means that they could now one day get a team, something that would never happen without a new arena, but there is absolutely no way the league guaranteed the city a team.

Hamilton doesn't have a brand new arena going up right now - these are not comparable situations. Look, I should have qualified my earlier post as I usually do, it's my belief that the fix is in for a team in the near future. Not necessarily next season, but I think it is a question of 'when' vs a question of 'if' at this point. There is enough smoke for there to be fire imo.

Or perhaps it is just I want to believe that the league isn't insane enough to have Las Vegas in their plans, and maybe sniffing around Kansas City, without Quebec City being on the short list.

Straw man argument. I never said anything the chances of the Nordiques coming back or not. I simply said that the notion that the new arena was built only after the NHL guaranteeing a team absolutely laughable. It never happened. The arena was built on the hope of getting a team, not on the guarantee of it.

In fairness, you have just as little idea what is going on behind the scenes as I do. You have your theory on this others have theirs. But none of us really know if they're gambling on a franchise, already have a handshake for one, etc.

 

[cheswick]

In fairness, you have just as little idea what is going on behind the scenes as I do. You have your theory on this others have theirs. But none of us really know if they're gambling on a franchise, already have a handshake for one, etc.

Yeah I have just as little an idea, but I use common sense to form an opinion. Its far and away more logical that there was no guarantee, then there was a gurantee that was so secret it never leaked to any media. Also, there's a supposed gurantee yet the first franchise that was potentially available in the Coyotes, the leaks said were being shopped to interests on the West coast over Quebec, despite a supposed secret guarantee. Also, when a potential arena was being talked about in Markham, the city council turned it down after the NHL refused to offer any sort of guarantees of a team. Also, Mark Chipman in Winnipeg said the NHL never guranteed them a franchise even after the fact that they were a vote away from acquiring the Coyotes.

So yeah there could have been a secret guarantee that all politicians that voted on the arena deal knew about, and dozens of people in the NHL knew about and it never leaked. But the much more logical explanation is what is presented at face value, the NHL offered no guarantees and the powers at be in Quebec City decided they needed a new arena. Much like what happened in Winnipeg when a new arena was built absent any notion of the NHL returning.

 

[barneyg]

Further evidence that it's a bit of an outlandish statement:

Québecor was overinvested in a bunch of stuff that wasn't (isn't) making any money, and they have been getting out of most of it. But because of Vidéotron, Québecor is still generating boatloads of cash (close to $1 billion last year, around $750 million through 3 quarters this year). They're watching Netflix closely and battling hard on the mobile front but they're nowhere close to being in financial trouble.

 

[MontrealYul]

I'm sure Quebec can do better than this. Don't forget that Raleigh is in the lowest tier in terms of ticket prices...no excuses.

 

[Doublechin]

I'm sure Quebec can do better than this. Don't forget that Raleigh is in the lowest tier in terms of ticket prices...no excuses.

Saving their money for Mcdavid or Eichel

 

[garbageteam]

Saving their money for Mcdavid or Eichel

Where are the "wait til our team gets good" apologists now? These guys won the cup 8 years ago! Five seasons of mediocrity is nothing compared to what some other teams have had to endure.

 

[thom]

What do you guys expect from Anglo-Canadian journalists? it took an American to break the Alan Eagleson saga.

 

[Killion]

What do you guys expect from Anglo-Canadian journalists? it took an American to break the Alan Eagleson saga.

I think thats a fair comment thom. The Globe & Mail, Toronto Star etc, sat on the Eagleson story despite being told by Legends of the Game of strange goings on. Story breaks from really a sort of backwater MA newspaper, reporter Russ Conway in a series of articles exposing the many layers of corruption & lies of R. Alan Eagleson QC. The media in Toronto simply wouldnt or couldnt believe that the local Boy & hockey savant could be practicing, operating like that. He'd bought himself a lot of influence over 2.5 decades. Caught flatfooted, the Globe in particular swinging the pendulum hard to the right, going after the NHLPA & the NHL itself, guys like Shoalts etc pandering to a certain segment of the population in criticizing just about everything the league had done, was doing or thought to be planning. Going after Bettman, "he's a basketball guy, what does he know about hockey"? and right on down the line to why the NHL moved its head offices a decade earlier to New York. Just on & on. Vast conspiracy apparently to "Americanize the Game" while coining derisive phrases like "Sunbelt Experiment" and so on. While they do have & make some good points, its fact mixed with some fiction & opinion. Provided one keeps that in mind when reading some of the so called "reports" and your able to parse out the fact from opinion, no problem. Buts its still shoddy, sensationalism, drafted to grab eyeballs. And its not just Anglo-Reporters that operate like that in Canada, the Francophone press does exactly the same thing on any number of fronts, any subject matter. Get hockey fans & the public, electorate or whatever all in a froth with all manner of issues.

 

[Fenway]

I think thats a fair comment thom. The Globe & Mail, Toronto Star etc, sat on the Eagleson story despite being told by Legends of the Game of strange goings on. Story breaks from really a sort of backwater MA newspaper, reporter Russ Conway in a series of articles exposing the many layers of corruption & lies of R. Alan Eagleson QC. The media in Toronto simply wouldnt or couldnt believe that the local Boy & hockey savant could be practicing, operating like that. He'd bought himself a lot of influence over 2.5 decades.

Eagle Tribune is a paper that covers the burbs north of Boston. Russ Conway covered the Bruins and many of the players lived in the area the paper serves and he became close friends with Orr. In fairness to the Toronto writers, Eagleson had the RCMP covering him and the papers thought if the Mounties saw nothing wrong, why should they? Conway however had the cover of the FBI and the Boston office of AP ran all of Conway's stuff. The Montreal Gazette then started to sniff and Eagleson was finally revealed to be pond scum.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

"I hope our friends in Quebec City and Winnipeg aren't offended," Bettman said. "You'd like to put them further down on the list. I'd like to right something we wish didn't happen."
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/bettman-battles-maclean-on-hnic-1.885331

Didn't he literally just push QC further down the list by adding Vegas? I love Gary's hypocrisy sometimes.

 

[Krossbar]

The thing is, if Quebec City followed what Winnipeg did, and tried to get an AHL franchise after their team left, then:

1) They would have had a new arena in place

2) They would be first in the list

This doesn't mention who will own an AHL team, also they could've played in the Nordiques arena depending on how old that arena is, and maybe build a new one later on like when Winnipeg built the MTS centre in 2004, relatively new, NHL ready, but usable for minor league use.

Another thing is, True North Sports and Entertainment worked their way into Bettman's heart thru years of courtship. At this point, QC is like someone going to the gym everyday and winks at the beautiful Gary Bettman to impress him and get his attention but Bettman likes a patient and persistent, not to mention, rich man. Tie in Las Vegas here, well Vegas is simply the most popular guy, rich, smooth, has sexy facial hair, and is a trophy husband material, just like the super famous star, Los Angeles.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

Didn't he literally just push QC further down the list by adding Vegas? I love Gary's hypocrisy sometimes.

It's almost as though priorities change over four and a half years.

 

[Jeffrey]

Bettman might not want to relocate a franchise because it will expose that some of his expansions plans have been failures. But some powerful owners will eventually put pressure on him (Boston, Toronto, NYR, Philly, Montreal) to improve the financial results as the cap might stop growing as it is draged down by some teams poor financials results. We are no insiders but we are not stupid and it's possible for franchise to continue to operate for long with such low attendances figures.

 

[Fenway]

Quebec Citadelles were an epic failure in the AHL and Montreal moved them to Hamilton after the 2002 season.

True North gambled that they could build an arena with less capacity of any NHL team and still have the NHL return and they were proven correct.

The thing is, if Quebec City followed what Winnipeg did, and tried to get an AHL franchise after their team left, then:

1) They would have had a new arena in place

2) They would be first in the list

This doesn't mention who will own an AHL team, also they could've played in the Nordiques arena depending on how old that arena is, and maybe build a new one later on like when Winnipeg built the MTS centre in 2004, relatively new, NHL ready, but usable for minor league use.

Another thing is, True North Sports and Entertainment worked their way into Bettman's heart thru years of courtship. At this point, QC is like someone going to the gym everyday and winks at the beautiful Gary Bettman to impress him and get his attention but Bettman likes a patient and persistent, not to mention, rich man. Tie in Las Vegas here, well Vegas is simply the most popular guy, rich, smooth, has sexy facial hair, and is a trophy husband material, just like the super famous star, Los Angeles.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

People in Quebec City will NEVER support an AHL team, especially not if it is the Habs farm club. I am pretty sure the IHL Rafales were more popular than the Citadelles.

The Citadelles failed because people considered it an insult that the Habs would DARE put their farm club in our city.

 

[Killion]

...In fairness to the Toronto writers, Eagleson had the RCMP covering him and the papers thought if the Mounties saw nothing wrong, why should they?

Thats being overly "fair" to extremely generous Fenway. Im from Toronto originally and did have some rather intimate knowledge of that situation as it evolved from the mid-to-late 70's & through the 80's. Eaglesons own son was attached to one of the Divisions investigating the complaints against his father who not only had all kinds of connections within the Metropolitan Toronto Police Force but so too the RCMP, the Mayors office, Provincial & Federal AG offices and absolutely right up to the Boardroom levels of every major paper & media outlet pretty much across Canada & certainly in Toronto. There was just conflict after conflict after conflict, and thats another guy like most arch criminals who really only got Busted for about 1/1000th+ of the actual crimes committed. If not for Conway, the FBI & the Justice Department I highly doubt the RCMP would have ever gotten off their Fanny Perpendiculars & done a damn thing about it & the press wouldnt have said Boo. They were embarrassed into it, embarrassed into laying charges, embarrassed into reporting it.

Quebec Citadelles were an epic failure in the AHL and Montreal moved them to Hamilton...

Ya, brilliant. They move into a market where the fans are not enamored with anything "Montreal" into another that just happens to be in the Leafs backyard, generations of fans in Hamilton-Wentworth bleeding blue & white, red & white, black & gold, but not alotta bleu-blanc-rouge.

 

[Fenway]

We are at the thread capacity limit so continue the discussion here.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1773085


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